Abortion and the death penalty

[Subduction Zone]

No but you may be.

"Plan B One-Step within 24 hours, it is much more effective."

So if conception can take up to 5 days, conception may not have even happened when plan B one-step is taken and then it will prevent conception.

Edit: So if they don't know if conception has even taken place they cant say its an abortion.

Really? I guess a gunman should try that defense in court.

"I didn't know if I killed him or not so it can't be murder."

 

[We Never Know]

Really? I guess a gunman should try that defense in court.

"I didn't know if I killed him or not so it can't be murder."

Sarcasm... A typical response from the defeated and/or confused

 

[metis]

When was capital punishment pro-life?

It could be justifiable in a society that has no jails or prisons whereas banning a person may still create a threat.

Who do you think should decide what is needed, man or God?

Ultimately, it's "man" who decides one way or the other, as we all must make decisions. On top of that, the applications of what God supposedly taught can vary from person to person and society to society.

 

[Trailblazer]

PS Yes, I have watched much TV crime stuff, not so much now since it is rather predictable, and I don't see it as being that valuable either. It does tend to make one think there is more crime out there than in reality, and why would TV tend to show so much? Because it draws in the audiences, and where I'd rather see less of this - because of what I stated. Best to understand reality rather than being a pawn of others.

I was referring to true crime stories such as Dateline, Forensic Files, and Investigation Discovery, not crime dramas like Law and Order. That is reality, not fantasy.

It is not about how much crime there is, it is about how horrendous some of those crimes are.

You are free to have your opinion about the death penalty and I will have mine.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Let me ask pro-death penalty people:

1. Do you believe you personally "deserve" consequences for your actions?

2. If you committed a rape, do you personally feel you deserve that others kill you for it?

Of course we are legally accountable for our actions. Of course there are consequences to our actions.

3. But do you believe as a personal value that you deserve to be punished for the bad things you do?

... and rewarded for the good things?

 

[Poisonshady313]

Let me ask pro-death penalty people:

2. If you committed a rape, do you personally feel you deserve that others kill you for it?

That's an odd question...(at least, to an American. I'm not familiar with issues related to the death penalty in other countries) rape isn't a capital crime in the US.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

That's an odd question...(at least, to an American. I'm not familiar with issues related to the death penalty in other countries) rape isn't a capital crime in the US.

I know. Though that's not the context of the question.

 

[Trailblazer]

Let me ask pro-death penalty people:

1. Do you believe you personally "deserve" consequences for your actions?

Yes.

2. If you committed a rape, do you personally feel you deserve that others kill you for it?

No, I do not believe rape justifies the death penalty.

Of course we are legally accountable for our actions. Of course there are consequences to our actions.

3. But do you believe as a personal value that you deserve to be punished for the bad things you do?

... and rewarded for the good things?

Yes. Without both rewards an punishments there can be no justice. That is true on an individual level as well as on a societal level because individuals make up society.

“We cherish the hope that the light of justice may shine upon the world and sanctify it from tyranny. If the rulers and kings of the earth, the symbols of the power of God, exalted be His glory, arise and resolve to dedicate themselves to whatever will promote the highest interests of the whole of humanity, the reign of justice will assuredly be established amongst the children of men, and the effulgence of its light will envelop the whole earth. The Great Being saith: The structure of world stability and order hath been reared upon, and will continue to be sustained by, the twin pillars of reward and punishment…”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 219

 

[Heyo]

Let me ask pro-death penalty people:

1. Do you believe you personally "deserve" consequences for your actions?

2. If you committed a rape, do you personally feel you deserve that others kill you for it?

Of course we are legally accountable for our actions. Of course there are consequences to our actions.

3. But do you believe as a personal value that you deserve to be punished for the bad things you do?

... and rewarded for the good things?

May I add some more questions?

1. Do you believe there should be a right to freedom of religion?
2. Do you think that right should be unalienable?
(I.e. should a court be able to take that right away?)

3. Do you believe there should be a right to life?
4. Do you think that right should be unalienable?

If you answered "Yes" to 1. to 3. and "no" to 4. wtf is wrong with you?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yes.

Why do you feel you deserve punishment?

No, I do not believe rape justifies the death penalty.

Though the context is if you committed a horrendous crime, say child abuse, do you deserve the death penalty.

The idea is do you deserve for others to put you to death for crime X appropriate to that consequence.

Yes. Without both rewards an punishments there can be no justice. That is true on an individual level as well as on a societal level because individuals make up society.

Justice is not needed when you take a productive approach to handling such issues.

If there were (lets say there are) alternative and productive ways to help criminals rather than kill them, would you aim for that alternative option or would you rather his consequence be death?

In other words, do you believe justice is warranted if other alternative approaches existed?

 

[McBell]

Justice is not needed when you take a productive approach to handling such issues.

If there were (lets say there are) alternative and productive ways to help criminals rather than kill them, would you aim for that alternative option or would you rather his consequence be death?

In other words, do you believe justice is warranted if other alternative approaches existed?

You seem to be saying that justice can only be had by the death penalty...

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You seem to be saying that justice can only be had by the death penalty...

No. I think Trailblazer is saying that.

 

[McBell]

No. I think Trailblazer is saying that.

Hmmm...
Ok.
I can see that.

 

[Trailblazer]

Hmmm...
Ok.
I can see that.

No, I never said that justice can only be done by the death penalty.

 

[Trailblazer]

No. I think Trailblazer is saying that.

No, I am not saying that. I am only saying that in certain cases the death penalty might be warranted.
I'm not a fanatic.

 

[Trailblazer]

Why do you feel you deserve punishment?
You asked: "Do you believe you personally "deserve" consequences for your actions?"

I said yes. yes, I deserve punishment if I do something wrong.

Though the context is if you committed a horrendous crime, say child abuse, do you deserve the death penalty.

No, the death penalty is only for murder, but life in prison can be an alternative.

The idea is do you deserve for others to put you to death for crime X appropriate to that consequence.

Yes, I think I would deserve the same punishment anyone else deserves for the same crime.

Justice is not needed when you take a productive approach to handling such issues.

I disagree, I believe justice is always needed.

If there were (lets say there are) alternative and productive ways to help criminals rather than kill them, would you aim for that alternative option or would you rather his consequence be death?

I believe that life in prison is an alternative that can be offered depending upon the circumstances. It is not up to me to decide, I am not a judge or on a jury.

In other words, do you believe justice is warranted if other alternative approaches existed?

I believe that justice is always warranted. It is not just to treat a criminal like he/she did not even do anything wrong.

2: O SON OF SPIRIT! The best beloved of all things in My sight is Justice; turn not away therefrom if thou desirest Me, and neglect it not that I may confide in thee. By its aid thou shalt see with thine own eyes and not through the eyes of others, and shalt know of thine own knowledge and not through the knowledge of thy neighbor. Ponder this in thy heart; how it behooveth thee to be. Verily justice is My gift to thee and the sign of My loving-kindness. Set it then before thine eyes. The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 3-4

64: O OPPRESSORS ON EARTH! Withdraw your hands from tyranny, for I have pledged Myself not to forgive any man’s injustice. This is My covenant which I have irrevocably decreed in the preserved tablet and sealed with My seal. The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 44

Justice means punishing actions or words that are wrong and upholding things that are good. This helps ensure that wrongs will be ended and rights will be upheld thereby leading to a safer society for everyone.

What is justice and why is it important? - Quora

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yes, I think I would deserve the same punishment anyone else deserves for the same crime.

Shrugs. I feel we don't deserve consequences for our actions, just that consequences are unavoidable regardless whether or not we feel we deserve it (according to whom/what?).

I think of it like this. If there is a huge cliff and I jump off of it, falling and hitting my head is a consequence of my actions. Do I deserve it? No. It's just a learning experience. I don't see myself as a "sinner" deserving to be judged or handled by justice by an inside or outside party for my actions. It's actually pretty depressing to think a person deserves consequences for all his or her actions-that leaves one in a state of insecurity and, how to say, seeing oneself as not worthy enough for a good person "who can also" make mistakes and learn from them. (Which makes me wonder if that's the reason many god-believers see themselves as unworthy of god or see god greater "than they.")

No one deserves the death penalty. It's warranted by societal law, but morally, everyone deserves to live just that deserving to live doesn't exempt us from consequences of our actions; it just lets us know we are good people who make mistakes.

 

[Mock Turtle]

I was referring to true crime stories such as Dateline, Forensic Files, and Investigation Discovery, not crime dramas like Law and Order. That is reality, not fantasy.

It is not about how much crime there is, it is about how horrendous some of those crimes are.

You are free to have your opinion about the death penalty and I will have mine.

Well I have seen many programmes depicting real crimes too and have read enough about such as well. We'll agree to disagree as usual.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

No, I am not saying that. I am only saying that in certain cases the death penalty might be warranted.
I'm not a fanatic.

Though, in my opinion, you (challenging opinion not you as a person) still be considered a fanatic even if you believe 1% people should die and the rest should live. Being a fanatic would be agreeing to death penalty in itself. Whether or not there are exemptions, you still agree that punishment of death should be in the hands of people.

 

[McBell]

No, I never said that justice can only be done by the death penalty.

I am not saying you did.
I am saying that I can see why others might think that based upon what you posted.