Abortion is murder

[Draka]

Tried that tactic. He doesn't seem to care if they are flushed with my Tampax or thrown in the trash with a pad. That's OK...that's "just natural".

You know, this prompted me to think about something else...perhaps even more disgusting so I apologoze if I offend some people's delicate natures....

If a zygote is considered a viable human life with the rights of any human AND we acknowledge that there are times when one may be naturally ejected from the woman's body during her period, then why don't we hold mini funerals over the toilet or trash can everytime we change a tampon or pad "just in case"?

A woman may also have a miscarriage and never really know it as it may happen about the same time as her normal period would. Should we mourn everytime a woman bleeds "just in case"?

There truly has to be more to the "life" stipulation than just fertilization. Even a pregnancy test won't show that an egg has been fertilized until it is well implanted and hormones have started to fluctuate. At that point it is a pregnancy. If you want to start defining "life" at that point then that is fine with me, BUT you simply cannot argue that a fertilized egg is a human "life". The logic simply doesn't work.

 

[Sunstone]

My shoes are murdering me. Does anyone know if that means they've been aborted?

 

[McBell]

Here's an interesting point in all this:

YouTube - Libertyville Abortion Demonstration

These are actual pro-life demonstrators who have been demonstrating for years. They can't even answer a simple question.

Here is a thread I started back on 08-08-2007:
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/general-debates/55300-how-much-time.html#post902497

 

[3.14]

ye but demonstrators arn't the smarteds pro-lifers around, there more the footman
then you have the leader of the pro lifers : cavelry
then you have people with actual power to change things: kings


the idee is that the cavelry rounds up enough footman to force the kings to surender

 

[Willamena]

ye but demonstrators arn't the smarteds pro-lifers around, there more the footman
then you have the leader of the pro lifers : cavelry
then you have people with actual power to change things: kings


the idee is that the cavelry rounds up enough footman to force the kings to surender

Where do the castles and the ones with the tall funny hats fit in?

 

[Sahar]

Aborting infants by elective termination is simply murder.

The stage at which at a human being is created is during conception.

Agreed!!

 

[McBell]

Where do the castles and the ones with the tall funny hats fit in?

they must be the ones writing the speeches...

 

[fantome profane]

If a zygote is considered a viable human life with the rights of any human AND we acknowledge that there are times when one may be naturally ejected from the woman's body during her period, then why don't we hold mini funerals over the toilet or trash can everytime we change a tampon or pad "just in case"?

A woman may also have a miscarriage and never really know it as it may happen about the same time as her normal period would. Should we mourn everytime a woman bleeds "just in case"?

This is a good point. When a person dies we mourn, regardless of whether they were killed or died of natural causes. But some people who consider abortion murder don’t bat an eye at the idea of the same embryo being naturally lost. If it is a person then we ought to mourn the same either way.

 

[McBell]

Aborting infants by elective termination is simply murder.

The stage at which at a human being is created is during conception.

Agreed!!

Why conception?



Infants are not aborted.

Infant
A child in the first period of life, beginning at birth; a young babe; sometimes, a child several years of
age.
[1913 Webster]
​

Since your premise if flat out wrong, all that relies upon said premise is flat out wrong.

 

[doppelganger]

Bottom line: whether an unborn child is a "person" or an abortion is "murder" is a silly argument and a waste of time because it turns on widely divergent aesthetic feelings that can be fairly defended either way in a never-ending debate that cannot be resolved.

On the other hand, nobody thinks there should be more abortions, so setting aside the need to legally condemn abortion (and all the silly arguing it creates), all that passion, time, energy and money can be put into those things that are actually shown to reduce the occurrence of abortions. Namely, addressing matters of social justice and poverty around the world, and finding ways to provide safe sex education and contraceptives.

Unlike legally condemning abortion (setting aside that half if not more of the people don't agree it should be condemned) which doesn't decrease abortions and increases deaths and serious injuries as it goes underground, supporting and promoting programs to reduce poverty and improve sex education for youth around the world will actually reduce abortions. Everyone on either side can agree that's a worthy goal, and you can actually accomplish something if you don't like abortion (helping to make a world in which there are fewer of them, plus a whole bunch of other positive side-effects from reducing poverty and overpopulation) instead of adding more noise to a worthless debate based on differences in aesthetics.

 

[lilithu]

Aborting infants by elective termination is simply murder.

Abortion may or may not be murder. That's something I am not going to bother arguing about. But infant is a biological term. Whatever moral status you attribute to the foetus it does not become an infant until it is born.

 

[DallasApple]

HEY!!!

IM A MURDERER!!!!!!!!!
TAU!
I have had more than one abortion ...and I am a MURDERER!!! I MURDERED my own children!!!

So did my HUSBAND because he WANTED me to KILL and MURDER our CHILDREN!

Do you want my address and that of MANY MANY MANY women and MEN I know so you can BLOW our houses up!!????...

LOVE

Dallas

 

[kai]

My shoes are murdering me. Does anyone know if that means they've been aborted?

give the high heels a rest for a while.


i think its up to the women involved but i am not sure about the cut off point, how many weeks etc, i think thats what people argue about these days,

Tau is just weird man

 

[Tau]

HEY!!!

IM A MURDERER!!!!!!!!!
TAU!
I have had more than one abortion ...and I am a MURDERER!!! I MURDERED my own children!!!

So did my HUSBAND because he WANTED me to KILL and MURDER our CHILDREN!

Do you want my address and that of MANY MANY MANY women and MEN I know so you can BLOW our houses up!!????...

LOVE

Dallas

Your address?
No thanks I am NOT a murderer.

 

[Tau]

Tau is just weird man

Why am I weird kai?

 

[Tau]

There truly has to be more to the "life" stipulation than just fertilization. Even a pregnancy test won't show that an egg has been fertilized until it is well implanted and hormones have started to fluctuate. At that point it is a pregnancy. If you want to start defining "life" at that point then that is fine with me, BUT you simply cannot argue that a fertilized egg is a human "life". The logic simply doesn't work.

What you are lacking is perspective, ie my perspective.

I see the zygote minutes after fertilization undergoing meiosis (cell division) it is growing, it is respirating, millions of chemical messages are racing around, activity is frantic, if you unravelled the DNA of this tiny entity it would be human DNA, it is DNA which determines species not age, a feritilised human egg certainly isnt dead or non living, it's alive and it is growing.

Fertilised human egg means it is no longer an egg, once it splits for the first time into two cells (meiosis) it has become a multicellular lifeform, a very young one, but 'scientifically' speaking a very young human.

If laws are to protect people then all should be protected by law, an unborn baby of whatever stage of development should be legally defined as Homo Sapiens Sapiens or a human being, any other label would be unscientific as well as prejudiced.

 

[Tau]

Abortion may or may not be murder. That's something I am not going to bother arguing about. But infant is a biological term. Whatever moral status you attribute to the foetus it does not become an infant until it is born.

Pure semantics and a pendantic response to go with it, thanks for that.

Names are labels, nothing more, a thing isnt a name....

 

[McBell]

Pure semantics and a pendantic response to go with it, thanks for that.

Names are labels, nothing more, a thing isnt a name....

None the less, you choosing to use the incorrect word and then denying that the correct word matters tends to show that you are not interested in the facts.

Seems to me that you are merely interested in your appeal to emotion LIE.
And it is a lie now that you know the word 'infant' in your original statement is flat out wrong.
Of course, I do not expect any reply to this post either.

 

[lilithu]

Pure semantics and a pendantic response to go with it, thanks for that.

Names are labels, nothing more, a thing isnt a name....

And what we call something affects how we view it, which you know all too well or else you would not have chosen to use such an incorrect and bias-inducing term.

What you are lacking is perspective, ie my perspective.

I see the zygote minutes after fertilization undergoing meiosis (cell division) it is growing, it is respirating, millions of chemical messages are racing around, activity is frantic, if you unravelled the DNA of this tiny entity it would be human DNA, it is DNA which determines species not age, a feritilised human egg certainly isnt dead or non living, it's alive and it is growing.

Fertilised human egg means it is no longer an egg, once it splits for the first time into two cells (meiosis) it has become a multicellular lifeform, a very young one, but 'scientifically' speaking a very young human.

At the risk of being called pedantic again (heck, why pretend I care), that is NOT meiosis. Meiosis happens during the process of creating the gametes (egg or sperm), not after their union. Look it up.

One can only hope that most people do not have "your perspective." If you're going to try to claim the authority of science, you should actually know some.

 

[Draka]

One can only hope that most people do not have "your perspective." If you're going to try to claim the authority of science, you should actually know some.

Good luck with that. Just look at the first couple pages of this thread and me trying to explain to him about fertilized eggs that don't get implanted. Confused him up and down and he was still trying to make out like I had no idea what I was talking about. As if I don't know the reproductive facts about my own body.