Abortion is murder

[Storm]

From the Wiki:

Appeal to emotion is a logical fallacy which uses the manipulation of the recipient's emotions, rather than valid logic, to win an argument. This kind of appeal to emotion is a type of red herring and encompasses several logical fallacies, including:

• Appeal to consequences
• Appeal to fear
• Appeal to flattery
• Appeal to pity
• Appeal to ridicule
• Appeal to spite
• Wishful thinking

 

[Weddy]

You do realize that if sex is only for procreation, then there are only about four days a month you can justify having sex?
Of course, if you are pregnant, then you cannot justify sex till after the birth if sex is only for procreation.
regardless of your marital status.

Sex is also for married couples to develop intimacy, not just procreation. I missed the "only" part in the last post.

 

[McBell]

He's not weak, but He does give us free will. He does allow sin to happen, but there are consequences. As far as abortion being in God's plan... His word says it isn't. I could quote some bible verses for you, but that obviously wouldn't matter to you.

Actually, you don't really want to get into a Bible verse contest over it.
If you do though start another thread and I will be happy to show how the Bible supports killing and the death penalty.

There are reasons other than religious reasons as to why abortion shouldn't be a choice. Why shouldn't a baby have a right to life?

Babies do have rights.
Though I think you actually mean fetuses.

Have you ever looked at the photos of an aborted baby?

Yes I have.
And to be completely honest with you, it is nothing more than an appeal to emotion tactic.

If you can look at a picture of a mangled baby and think it's okay, then you have no heart at all.

Your opinion is duly noted.

 

[McBell]

Sex is also for married couples to develop intimacy, not just procreation.

Why only married couples?

I missed the "only" part in the last post.

Fair enough.

 

[robtex]

As a Christian, it is my responsibility to spread God's word whether someone chooses to believe it or not. That's why I quote the bible. God's word, not religion, is what I believe.

that makes sense. To be honest I don't care though about his opinion. However, the important thing to walk away with is even if every other non-Christian cared as little as I did about your God's opinion on abortion the US population is still about 85 % Christian. (footnote 1) The abortion stats are about 1.3-1.4 million (footnote 2). In footnote 2 is this juicy piece:

"[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Who's having abortions (religion)?
Women identifying themselves as Protestants obtain 37.4% of all abortions in the U.S.; Catholic women account for 31.3%, Jewish women account for 1.3%, and women with no religious affiliation obtain 23.7% of all abortions. 18% of all abortions are performed on women who identify themselves as "Born-again/Evangelical"."

Notice non-religious ranks lower than protestants, catholics, and almost as low evangelicals. Although to be fair non-religious make up about 11 % of the population but are twice as high on abortions. The net affect though if Christians really honestly practiced their religion, which I don't mean you in particular but Christians overall and really had conviction in their teachings your demographics could cut abortion by 75 % in one year or less.

And again not relating this to you personally but when Christians give me their abortion spiel, they better have an answer as to why they practice recreation sex (if they do so which is true more often than not) because on paper they are making the bulk of abortions by their lack of restraint and lack of respect for their own faith.
[/FONT]

God's word does say that fornication is a sin. So I agree with you on both statements.

yea and when I made that I re-read my post and realize it could be interpret as me accusing you personally of having recreational sex which was not my intention. I am going to assume that you don't and want to emphasis I was apply that to Christians in general.


footnote 1 : Religious identification in the U.S.

footnote 2 Abortion Statistics

 

[gnomon]

My point was that if a baby is conceived, it was meant to be born unless God decides to take it beforehand.

Are you sure about this argument?

If every conception is intended by God to be born than why are there miscarriages?

Why are babies born with debilitating conditions sometimes to the point where the brain is so damaged that consciousness itself may not be present?

Does God flinch?

 

[robtex]

Are you sure about this argument?

If every conception is intended by God to be born than why are there miscarriages?

Why are babies born with debilitating conditions sometimes to the point where the brain is so damaged that consciousness itself may not be present?

Does God flinch?

yep about 1 in 4 or 1 in 5 pregnancies end in miscarriages or 900,000 a year. The ratio of abortions to miscarriages is about 13:9 or about 40 % of aborted fetus are nature induced in the form of miscarriages.

Miscarriage Statistics
Miscarriage Statistics

 

[Weddy]

Are you sure about this argument?

If every conception is intended by God to be born than why are there miscarriages?

A miscarriage is what I meant by God taking it beforehand.

 

[McBell]

A miscarriage is what I meant by God taking it beforehand.

So God does not use abortion to take them before hand?
If not, how do you know this?

 

[Weddy]

So God does not use abortion to take them before hand?
If not, how do you know this?

Abortion is man taking it beforehand. Miscarriage is God taking it beforehand.

 

[McBell]

Abortion is man taking it beforehand. Miscarriage is God taking it beforehand.

You did not answer the question.

So God does not use abortion to take them before hand?

 

[Weddy]

You did not answer the question.

So God does not use abortion to take them before hand?

Well, I know that another term for miscarriage is spontaneous abortion, which is the natural termination of pregnancy without human manipulation. Is that what you're talking about? A natural termination of pregnancy is not the issue, but a conscious decision by a woman or man to end the pregnancy is.

Why is it okay for a woman to end her pregnancy, but not okay for a woman to end the existance of her 2 year old? It's the same thing. The creation of life was caused by God, therefore He is the only one that should end life.

 

[Draka]

Why is it okay for a "loving" god to plan for the conceiving of a child only to yank it away? Why is it okay for your god to give me twins only to make one die? Why is it okay to play with the women who WANT their babies to be born by giving them what they want and pray for only to cruelly snatch it away and watch the mother and father mourn? Why is it okay for god to abort wanted babies???

 

[Weddy]

Why is it okay for a "loving" god to plan for the conceiving of a child only to yank it away? Why is it okay for your god to give me twins only to make one die? Why is it okay to play with the women who WANT their babies to be born by giving them what they want and pray for only to cruelly snatch it away and watch the mother and father mourn? Why is it okay for god to abort wanted babies???

Because He's God. That baby isn't yours, it's His. He allows you to take care of it. It's His creation, not yours. Sometimes He allows bad things to happen to us because that's the only time people pray to Him. There are many reasons He might take one of His children to live in Heaven with Him.

 

[Draka]

Because He's God. That baby isn't yours, it's His. He allows you to take care of it. It's His creation, not yours. Sometimes He allows bad things to happen to us because that's the only time people pray to Him. There are many reasons He might take one of His children to live in Heaven with Him.

Bullhockey. I quite recall making those children I lost. Your "god" didn't have jack to do with it. And if your god "allows bad things to happen" just to get people to pay attention to him then he sounds pretty damn egomaniacal and self-centered to me. But then, what can we expect from a "god" that pretty much demands "love me or else"? As for the baby being "his"...he had his child and he killed him. Your "god" can stay the hell out of my uterus.

I just think it's really messed up that someone can honestly say that they believe that their god is a loving god and yet it is perfectly fine for that god to rip away loved and wanted children, BUT if a couple take it into their own hands to do what is right for them and perhaps their other children by seeking an abortion then they are murderers. Sick...just sick.

I'm so glad that I don't have any part of your religion. I'm so glad I see the bible for what it is. A book. Just a book. Nothing more at all.

 

[lilithu]

Because He's God. That baby isn't yours, it's His.

That foetus is not YOURS either. If God has a problem with abortion, God can stop it. Or do you doubt God's power?

 

[Weddy]

Bullhockey. I quite recall making those children I lost. Your "god" didn't have jack to do with it. And if your god "allows bad things to happen" just to get people to pay attention to him then he sounds pretty damn egomaniacal and self-centered to me. But then, what can we expect from a "god" that pretty much demands "love me or else"? As for the baby being "his"...he had his child and he killed him. Your "god" can stay the hell out of my uterus.

I just think it's really messed up that someone can honestly say that they believe that their god is a loving god and yet it is perfectly fine for that god to rip away loved and wanted children, BUT if a couple take it into their own hands to do what is right for them and perhaps their other children by seeking an abortion then they are murderers. Sick...just sick.

I'm so glad that I don't have any part of your religion. I'm so glad I see the bible for what it is. A book. Just a book. Nothing more at all.

God didn't kill His child. People did. He allowed it because of the good that would come of it. Because of Jesus' death, and separation from God, I don't ever have to spend eternity in hell away from God, Jesus, and all of my loved ones. There are good things that can come out of bad situations.

I'm sorry if you lost a child, but you did not "make" them. Your child is in Heaven with God now, and if you would just accept Jesus as your savior you WILL see your child someday. Just think about that. Picture yourself walking through Heaven's gates, and having the child that was once inside you running to meet you.

God doesn't demand love, He gives us free will. I pray that God will reveal himself to you and that you will feel His Holy Spirit all around you.

 

[lilithu]

God didn't kill His child. People did. He allowed it because of the good that would come of it.

God sent His child for the express purpose of his murder, a murder which He demanded.

 

[Weddy]

That foetus is not YOURS either. If God has a problem with abortion, God can stop it. Or do you doubt God's power?

Again, God gives us free will to sin or not to sin. I do not doubt God's power, but if he stopped everything we do, it would not be free will. However, if we choose to sin, we will be punished.

 

[Weddy]

God sent His child for the express purpose of his murder, a murder which He demanded.

He was sent as a sacrifice for our sins.

I know you've heard John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

In other words, he allowed Jesus to be murdered for sins that he didn't commit, then he separated himself from Jesus (spiritually). Hell not only is pain and suffering, but also separation from God and loved ones. Because of that sacrifice we don't have to go to hell. That great sacrifice shows how much he loves us.