Abortion is murder

[lilithu]

Not really, I am quite aware of the multitude of editions/translations/interpretations of that entity collectively called the Bible.

I just thought it was obvious, but anyway, mine says Thou Shalt Not Kill.


I don't belive in the empirical word of the Bible lilithu, I am not a Christian, how many times do I have to say it!
I think YOU have missed the point entirely.....I was using that wording of that commandment as the basis of my philosophy regarding abortion, who gives a flying wossname if it is empirical or not, that is utterly irrelevant as is going on about different translations!
I just percieve that it should be (Thou Shalt Not Kill should be law)....I am not here to debate the validity of the Bible lol.

As I said earlier a number of times in different ways.


I am not a Christian and I do not hold that the Bible is the literal word of God.

OK?

No where did I say that you are a Christian, so your rant is utterly beside the point. If your argument is not based on the bible, but rather your own "perception" that "thou shalt not kill" then you should not have brought up the bible. If you hold up the bible as the basis for your argument then people can respond to you on that basis. I was responding to your claim that the bible says "Thou shalt not kill." That is a translation of the original text. Whether you are Christian or not is irrelevant to that point.

 

[Draka]

I'm still amazed that someone, who so adamently states they are not a Christian, seems so stuck on using something from the bible as the basis for their own personal philosophy.

And Lilithu is right,...if you use the bible as a basis for your argument, then the bible becomes a point in question. Including the translations of the scripture you use.

 

[McBell]

I haven't visited this Forum for about a month; and everytime I come, I like it less.

Why?

Here with my response re "removing a soul-less fly", while addressing either Divine, or Human-life:
To argue that LIFE does not begin at conception, must lead one to assume Christ was
at one point a "potentially human" Christ. That which was conceived by the Holy Ghost was
not an "it," a "potential human," or a "blob of tissue." It was our Lord & Saviour, Jesus Christ.

Life does not begin at conception.
How do I know this?
Because a dead sperm cannot fertilize.
A dead egg cannot be fertilized.
It takes a LIVING sperm cell to fertilize a LIVING egg cell.
So obviously life did not begin at conception.

Personally, I think you belittle your deity by trying to fit Him into a scientific box like that, but hey, who am I?

in Summary:
Jesus came to save, restore, and renew life.
Satan comes to steal, kill, and destroy. as has been said "DENIAL ain't just a river"
GOD also said: "CHOOSE ye this day whom ye will serve..."
Annie

Your summary has nothing to do with abortion, the rest of your post, or this thread.
It is merely an attempt to preach.

 

[DallasApple]

Life does not begin at conception.
How do I know this?
Because a dead sperm cannot fertilize.
A dead egg cannot be fertilized.
It takes a LIVING sperm cell to fertilize a LIVING egg cell.
So obviously life did not begin at conception.

At first I didnt understand what you meant by this.(Im a dunce today..no clarity)..but I get it now..

Life begins with a living sperm..and a living egg..Wether egg and sperm ever "meet"...or not..Is this what you meant?

Love

Dallas

 

[McBell]

At first I didnt understand what you meant by this.(Im a dunce today..no clarity)..but I get it now..

Life begins with a living sperm..and a living egg..Wether egg and sperm ever "meet"...or not..Is this what you meant?

Love

Dallas

What I mean is that LIFE began a long long time ago and is a continuous, ongoing process.
Conception is merely one of many steps in the process of life.
Life could not begin with conception because it takes living cells to conceive.
These living cells have to come from living cell makers.
No where in the process does a dead anything do anything to further the process of life along.

 

[DallasApple]

What I mean is that LIFE began a long long time ago and is a continuous, ongoing process.
Conception is merely one of many steps in the process of life.
Life could not begin with conception because it takes living cells to conceive.
These living cells have to come from living cell makers.
No where in the process does a dead anything do anything to further the process of life along.

I understand..Including the fact that the two people who concieve a child have to be alive..So you could even say new life begins with the life of the parents(before they even concieve)..But then what about their parents and so so on and so on ...Life is a chain of events..

Love

Dallas

 

[McBell]

Life is a chain of events..

Yes.
And you need the whole chain for it to work.
However, statements like: "Life begins at conception" is likened to taking ONE link from the chain.
All by itself, it does not work as it needs the other links.

 

[Father Heathen]

Aborting infants by elective termination is simply murder.

The stage at which at a human being is created is during conception.

I liked how you presented your statement with a persuasive explanation along with the evidence to back it up.

I also like how this worthless post reached 27 pages.

I shed a tear for the fetii.

 

[logician]

It's really only murder when our laws say its murder.

 

[zenzero]

Friends,
Again their is nothing as right or wrong.
Only one's guilt decides it.
One life is dependent on past actions [according to Sanatana dharamas which icnludes Hinduism, buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism etc.**
If a unborn dies is only due to his karma to get to the next life.
If someone aborts that is her karma.
Only concious actions eliminates any reactions of the action.
love & rgds

 

[DallasApple]

Yes.
And you need the whole chain for it to work.
However, statements like: "Life begins at conception" is likened to taking ONE link from the chain.
All by itself, it does not work as it needs the other links.

The chain also isnt only simply about living cells.. Also in this chain would include life "events"..Including death..I never would have had my children had my father not died.At least not the unique individual childnren I have..Because I never would of met my husband..(or at least I can logically assume that)...

Love

Dallas

 

[Tau]

I liked how you presented your statement with a persuasive explanation along with the evidence to back it up.

I also like how this worthless post reached 27 pages.

I shed a tear for the fetii.

Do I detect sarcasm?

Do I have any interest in your opinion on this matter because as I said I am not open to argument myself on the subject....LOL

The answers to those questions are respectively Yes and No.

Who will shed tears for Father Heathen?

 

[Da Troof]

Tau, is natural abortion (miscarriage) murder by GOD? Presumably God has the power to prevent it, but he chooses to let approx 30% of conceptions die in this way!

 

[Tau]

Tau, is natural abortion (miscarriage) murder by GOD? Presumably God has the power to prevent it, but he chooses to let approx 30% of conceptions die in this way!

I do not believe in a monotheistic God but for the purposes of this thread I will say that natural abortion is natural and unless preventable not a concern of mine.

Miscarriage is not the result of human interference, that is where my issue is.

Not all pro lifers are Christian or even religious...some are Law cultists like me

 

[Da Troof]

Hmm OK so what crime would you say is committed by a pregnent woman who takes a drug for her own pleasure that has the side effect of causing an abortion?

What crime is committed by a pregnant woman who drinks alcohol or smokes cigarettes while pregnant causing birth defects?

 

[Tau]

Alcohol and Nicotine are drugs in my chemist eyes but anyway...

The first situation is a 'neglect of responsibility/duty leading to the death of an unborn human' in my eyes this should be punishable by law as it is willful and sociopathic

The second is a lesser example of the first and again a neglect of responsiblity and also a demonstration of sociopathy.

There is no comprimise with me.

The guilty must be punished in this situation as in any other when lives are destroyed by ignorance and irresponsibility.

Only very stupid people use man made drugs that is a crime in itself anyway.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

...There is no comprimise with me.

- and -

Only very stupid people use man made drugs that is a crime in itself anyway.

Am I to take it that you do not ingest aspirin for a headache, or use congestion medicine when you have a cold?

Do you drink liquids other than water?

Am I missing something here?

 

[Nessa Nenharma]

Not every woman who is pregnant knows that she is pregnant. Some women continue to menstruate during their pregnancies, and therefore would have to reason to suspect that they are pregnant. With that said, if that same woman decided to have a night out on the town and drank until she was hugging the porcelin god, which in turn caused her to miscarry a pregnancy she never knew she had, I wouldn't call that irresponsible or sociopathic.

:bb:

Nessa

 

[Sonic247]

I would, You don't really have that much control when you get wasted, you might do something you regret the rest of your life. Besides the fact that it could kill you by itself if you choke on your own vomit or something. People who drink like that almost always effect those around them, especially those who care about them. Plus that's like arguing that if someone hits a home run it could hit someone in the head and kill them, so it's okay to throw baseballs at people.

 

[Nessa Nenharma]

I would, You don't really have that much control when you get wasted, you might do something you regret the rest of your life. Besides the fact that it could kill you by itself if you choke on your own vomit or something. People who drink like that almost always effect those around them, especially those who care about them. Plus that's like arguing that if someone hits a home run it could hit someone in the head and kill them, so it's okay to throw baseballs at people.

Regardless of the fact that you could kill yourself from drinking, I was only talking about going out on the town once, not an alcoholic. You mean to tell me you have never went out clubbing with friends and had drinks?

The point of my post was that while she intentionally drank, it was not to have a miscarriage of a pregnancy she had no knowledge of. Therefore, you can't fault EVERY abortion and claim the woman has murdered her "child".

I must be confused about baseball then, I thought when you hit a homerun you weren't actually throwing balls at people but batting balls as far away from yourself as possible:sarcastic. But I do agree that someone could get beemed in the head by a homerun hit (it's one of the reasons I don't take my boys to pro baseball games), but that is off topic.

:bb:

Nessa