Abortion: The Gory Photos Are Real

[hoomer]

scratch that....Johnys4life.....let me say this.....you seem to have an agenda..a need to educate others......

One thing you wil learn.....the more you shout the less people lsiten.....

A closed mind wil ony open when IT WANTS TO.....

Personally I OFTEN chat online in a yahoo reigious room...in fact I met rex there......many moons ago......in the room I most frequwently frequent (though I visit many others)....we tolerate pretty mcuh anything......one minute we can be discussing the meaning of the tetragrammaton...whether christ existed....and if God is male...and the next minute we will be discusssing oral sex or would a goat be good in bed.....

So pretty much anuything goes...a strong sense of humour and irreverancy si needed..all are accepted.....no topic is too disgusting genraly

we have only 2 rules....dont type in all caps.....and DON"T PREACH..

the kind of preaching...and make no mistakes johnny you ARE preaching ...this is clear now.....I dont think there can be any doubt...you arent here to discuss you are merey here to preach......

Well preach all you want........if you realy fee you must ....in yahoo chat people that preach get aughed AT...and are made subjects of terribe derison often...because its truly foolish to beeive you'll change another person's beiefs....especiay by repetative preaching..which acts ike a hammer to the head........

So in summary...continue to preach...its your choice.....dont be surprised if you are derided and ridicued by others though......despite what some christian beeive....if one actualy reads the bible christ never advcated a hammer to the head to bludgeon conversion into another (as one example)

Preach away...but dont be surprised if no one listens..and you become "the boy who cried wolf".....

"Learn at first concentration without effort; transform work into play; make every yoke that you have accepted easy and every burden light."

 

[Ardhanariswar]

okay...

how come you do not shudder when you pick up meat at the butcher to make your meal? why? are humans superior to animals? is it justified to line up cows in a warehouse and swing a sledge hammer into thier head so they are knocked unconscious then killed just to for the purpose to fill our bellies????? is that fair? no. i dont see the big deal. if people are against abortion, they should also be veggitarians. but somehow that doesnt click with me. some people are agaisnt abortion but for the death penalty. how do you place value and worth in someons life? its not for YOU to descide...

 

[hoomer]

okay...

how come you do not shudder when you pick up meat at the butcher to make your meal? why? are humans superior to animals? is it justified to line up cows in a warehouse and swing a sledge hammer into thier head so they are knocked unconscious then killed just to for the purpose to fill our bellies????? is that fair? no. i dont see the big deal. if people are against abortion, they should also be veggitarians. but somehow that doesnt click with me. some people are agaisnt abortion but for the death penalty. how do you place value and worth in someons life? its not for YOU to descide...

wel said..its not for YOU to decide....

I'm not FOR abortion.......but I'm not against it either.......its all about choice and freedom...and civil liberties!.....unless we are living in a totaitarian fascist regime.......maybe we are?..I think many wish we were

 

[angellous_evangellous]

wel said..its not for YOU to decide....

I'm not FOR abortion.......but I'm not against it either.......its all about choice and freedom...and civil liberties!.....unless we are living in a totaitarian fascist regime.......maybe we are?..I think many wish we were

It is important because if the pro-life argument is true (life begins at conception, which I do not hold), then abortion is murder. Democratic societies have a responsibility to limit the killing of humans.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

okay...

how come you do not shudder when you pick up meat at the butcher to make your meal? why? are humans superior to animals? is it justified to line up cows in a warehouse and swing a sledge hammer into thier head so they are knocked unconscious then killed just to for the purpose to fill our bellies????? is that fair? no. i dont see the big deal. if people are against abortion, they should also be veggitarians. but somehow that doesnt click with me. some people are agaisnt abortion but for the death penalty. how do you place value and worth in someons life? its not for YOU to descide...

The issue of abortion is fundamentally different from killing animals for food because the argument is centered around human dignity. Animals do not have human dignity. Not only are they killed, but they are trained as pets and denied human freedom because they are not honored with the same dignity as humans. Nevertheless, because they are alive and some people project on animals distinctly human characteristics (emotion, etc), animals are not abused and killed without cause (even hunting has restrictions, animal testing is regulated, and even slaughter houses have rules that provide some animal dignity). Furthermore, animals are given some protection because we don't want ruthless killing of animals (disregard for life) to leak over into disregard for human life.

 

[Green Gaia]

Democratic societies have a responsibility to limit the killing of humans.

I'll believe this when they stop waging war.

 

[michel]

It is important because if the pro-life argument is true (life begins at conception, which I do not hold), then abortion is murder. Democratic societies have a responsibility to limit the killing of humans.

er........... Aren't The U.S.A, Great (hah) Britain, Spain Democracies ? ......what about Iraq ?

 

[BUDDY]

how come you do not shudder when you pick up meat at the butcher to make your meal? why? are humans superior to animals? is it justified to line up cows in a warehouse and swing a sledge hammer into thier head so they are knocked unconscious then killed just to for the purpose to fill our bellies????? is that fair?

Yes. And meat tastes good to. Then again, I don't believe in reincarnation.

 

[hoomer]

What we've got here is... failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it... well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men. (cool hand luke)


that is my summing up of this whole issue....and may you enjoy standing in a corner ike a chid screaming for a diaper change..as it has reached this stage....

I for one will not participate in this.....

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I'll believe this when they stop waging war.

The end of wars would be very nice. There are limits even there however, that free governments submit to (or at least say that they do...). That is why it is illegal for a soldier to shoot another combatant with a 50mil bullet and not allowed to kill or demean prisoners.

 

[jamaesi]

Angellous, I'd take your post far more seriously if you used an variety of unbiased scores, not just Abortion "Facts."

Who here has said sex is dirty?

Seems to be the general opinion of it and anyone who dare does it.

 

[jamaesi]

The end of wars would be very nice. There are limits even there however, that free governments submit to (or at least say that they do...). That is why it is illegal for a soldier to shoot another combatant with a 50mil bullet and not allowed to kill or demean prisoners.

http://news.google.com/news?q=prisoner%20abuse&hl=en&lr=&rls=RNWE,RNWE:2004-45,RNWE:en&sa=N&tab=wn

Guess that doesn't stop them, eh? There are no limits, in reality.

War is hell. Even in our "civilized" war where we have our "human dignities" we still march off to slaughter another.

 

[Lycan]

Seems to be the general opinion of it and anyone who dare does it.

Show me...

 

[angellous_evangellous]

http://news.google.com/news?q=prisoner%20abuse&hl=en&lr=&rls=RNWE,RNWE:2004-45,RNWE:en&sa=N&tab=wn

Guess that doesn't stop them, eh? There are no limits, in reality.

War is hell. Even in our "civilized" war where we have our "human dignities" we still march off to slaughter another.

You are right, war is hell. But it is not lawless killing, which is why we have the Geneva conventions and international rules for war. I did qualify myself above by noting that not everyone follows the rules of war. Nevertheless, there is respect for human dignity even in war, and the international rules for war are evidences of this respect, which is why the analogy fails.

BTW: War is how we received our freedoms and what shapes us as a nation. Not everyone in the world respects freedom the way Americans do. It is one of the tools by which nations communicate with one another. We are getting off topic, but I can point out when folks use bad analogies, which is rampant in these forums.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Angellous, I'd take your post far more seriously if you used an variety of unbiased scores, not just Abortion "Facts."



Seems to be the general opinion of it and anyone who dare does it.

And like yours isn't. Look up abortion and the effects are downplayed. The cite that I provided gives references, so you can verify each topic individually. Furthermore, it gives balanced views: some answers support abortion, and some don't. I agree that there is a pro-life slant, but it obviously does not withold data that supports abortion. Your encylopedia did not provide adequate risks from abortion, and mine does.

EDIT: see post 95 and 99. In addition, my cite used various independent sources to come to its conclusion. It is a valid source for information.

 

[Natural Submission]

Abortion Is Murder!!!

 

[Sunstone]

**MOD POST** The topic of the thread is abortion, rather than war. Please stay on topic. Perhaps it would be a good idea to start a new thread on the limits of war.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Abortion Is Murder!!!

Successfully defend it and we will take you seriously.

 

[Fluffy]

Successfully defend it and we will take you seriously.

Murder is illegal intentional killing. Therefore abortion CAN be murder but it might not be since in the right circumstances, it is completely legal. Since the word "murder" is just the same as kill but with some legal and social attachments to it, would you be happen with the phrase "abortion is killing"? For me there is not much difference so I don't see the need to attach murder to abortion to make abortion seem somehow more abhorent because of the stigma that goes with the word murder.

 

[jamaesi]

And like yours isn't. Look up abortion and the effects are downplayed. The cite that I provided gives references, so you can verify each topic individually. Furthermore, it gives balanced views: some answers support abortion, and some don't. I agree that there is a pro-life slant, but it obviously does not withold data that supports abortion. Your encylopedia did not provide adequate risks from abortion, and mine does.

*missed when about.com and wikipedia became agents of the pro-choice movement*

Wikipedia, my encyclpedia of choice, won't overplay or use false information. (Such as the abortion and cancer "link" that has been proved false.) I try my best to use as many websites as I can that don't have a huge bias either way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion#Politically_neutral_links

Note where AbortionFacts is. I notice that they will throw out statistics, but won't show any of factors that might bias the statistics.


Example:

from abortion facts
http://www.abortionfacts.com/reardon/after_effects_of_abortion.asp

Temporary feelings of relief are frequently followed by a period psychiatrists identify as emotional "paralysis," or post-abortion "numbness."18 Like shell-shocked soldiers, these aborted women are unable to express or even feel their own emotions. Their focus is primarily on having survived the ordeal, and they are at least temporarily out of touch with their feelings.

Studies within the first few weeks after the abortion have found that between 40 and 60 percent of women questioned report negative reactions.3,23,35 Within 8 weeks after their abortions, 55% expressed guilt, 44% complained of nervous disorders, 36% had experienced sleep disturbances, 31% had regrets about their decision, and 11% had been prescribed psychotropic medicine by their family doctor.3

In one study of 500 aborted women, researchers found that 50 percent expressed negative feelings, and up to 10 percent were classified as having developed "serious psychiatric complications."10

The best available data indicates that on average there is a five to ten year period of denial during which a woman who was traumatized by her abortion will repress her feelings.23,24 During this time, the woman may go to great lengths to avoid people, situations, or events which she associates with her abortion and she may even become vocally defensive of abortion in order to convince others, and herself, that she made the right choice and is satisfied with the outcome. In reality, these women who are subsequently identified as having been severely traumatized, have failed to reach a true state of "closure" with regard to their experiences.

(no mention of other factors)


from the wikipedia article on abortion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion#Possible_side_effects

Research has been carried out on the question of whether abortion is associated with increased risk of clinical depression, but the results are mixed. According to a study of 1,884 women conducted by the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth, women who did not carry their first pregnancies to term are 65% more likely to be diagnosed with clinical depression around eight years later. However, other studies did not support a conclusion that depression may be caused by abortion. For example, a study of 2,525 women revealed that women who had an abortion were more likely to report depression or lower satisfaction with their lives. However, they also often reported rape, childhood physical and sexual abuse, and violent partners. After controlling for the history of abuse, partner characteristics, and background variables, abortion was not related to poorer mental health (Denious, J. & Russo, N. F. (2000). The Socio-Political Context of Abortion and its Relationship to Women's Mental Health. In J. Ussher (Ed.). Women's Health: Contemporary International Perspectives (pp. 431-439). London: British Psychological Society.).