Abrahamic religions can be hazardous to you health

[richardlowellt]

So I shouldn't expect you to do anything good because obviously you are non-religious?

No, I believe most people are good people and will treat others with kindness to a point, I would expect a highly religious person to turn the other cheek, I would not, I would expect the religious person to forgive a horrid injustice done to me or my family,as with the Amish who forgave the man that murdered those poor young women, I however would seek revenge, like that!!

And yet you refuse to hold those responsible accountable. If anything you are supplying them with excuses to continue doing what they've done.

If these people were acting as individuals the yes I would hold them accountable but their not, their acting in the name of their religion, doing what the teachings of that religion require.

"it wasn't me it was my religion that made me do it. I'm completely innocent of any wrong doing."

Yes, thats the mindset, but most of the time they feel no wrong has been committed. I'm sure if you ask the Catholic Bishop if he thought what he did was wrong he would tell you no, some for the Mullahs. Right or wrong the religious believe what they are doing is right, except in the case of most televangelists who I'm sure know they are nothing but crooks at heart.

 

[richardlowellt]

Quote:

How is your wanting to blame religion for someones actions any different than religious people blaming the devil or god for wrong doings or tragedies in their life?

there both the same.

This does not answer my question so I will ask it again, how is your blaming religion for all the problems in the world any different from a religious person using the excuse the devil made me do it, (which seems to be your original beef with religion)

?I never did blame religion for ALL the problems of the world, it's my contention that the world in general would be a much nicer place without organized religion, especially the Abrahamic religions. I know a lot of misery and death would never have happened through our species history if religion was absent.




Yes instead of helping people that probably have mental problems (which in your example here is more likely the case than not) your answer is to put them away for the rest of their lives and blame their religion for their actions. Yep out of sight out of mind is always a much easier answer to difficult problems.

You do love to put words in my mouth, I never said to put the mentally impaired away for life. You got only half the equation, help these people the best we can, but yes, I still blame religion for their actions.

 

[richardlowellt]

Originally Posted by Perfect Circle
And Hitler effected the "Final Solution" because he believed whole-heartedly in darwinism. Does that make evolution wrong? Or "bad for your health"?

So now we are allowed to cherry pick whether we blame an institution for all the wrongs done in the world or a person, depending on what influences that person has used such as Hitler using dawinism to influence millions of people doesn't make darwinism the bad guy. But someone using Christianity to influence millions of people means that Christianity is the bad guy here and not the person who is misrepresenting the religion.

I guess this just goes to show how gullible and stupid the masses really are. I see a major difference between using an evolutionary concept to influence people and a fictitious being to do the same. Hitler's agenda was evil and people bought into that, Christianity's agenda is one of caring, and love, one only expect love and caring to come from Christianity, I'm sure no such expectation's came from Hitler's agenda.


Richard, do we hold you accountable for your ignorant intolerance or Atheism?

Do I hold you accountable for not being able to see the damage religion has done, and is doing everyday?

 

[Anti-thesisofreason]

Do I hold you accountable for not being able to see the damage religion has done, and is doing everyday?

Nope you can't hold me accountable for anything I've decided to become religious.
You are free to blame my religion though. Gotta love them scape goats.

 

[Erebus]

Richardlowellt:
Firstly by claiming Atheism is not a religion and thus doesn't count is terribly unscientific. You should know that psychology is more important than semantics when determining a hypothesis. It makes no difference whether atheism is classed as a religion or not, this is pure wordplay.

Again your beliefs about what would or would not have happened without religion present is pure speculation. I could easily suggest that without religion to unite people, humanity would still be living in the stone age. This speculation is just as valid as yours, yet both are still hypothetical situations.

Religion is not a "hands off issue" at all, however, some tact is desirable when dealing with these subjects. Myself and many others would be just as disgusted if somebody posted "atheism is poisonous and should be exterminated like any other disease" it doesn't matter who or what this type of insult is levelled at, it remains petty, pointless and vitriolic.

I'm not going to spend a great deal of time with this thread as I've seen it's ilk too often. However, if I may offer some advice, I'd suggest you seriously question what you are accomplishing here.

 

[Perfect Circle]

One mentally unstable man is not a religion that influences millions.

No where, in any abrahamic religion does it say that condoms have holes in them, nor does it say that the US is trying to spread polio... So we can conclude that it's probably a few mentally unstable men, right?

No different that what religion does, fear mongering seems their specialty.

There's nothing in the actual religions that would be considered fear mongering. Those are the men, in certain sects, of that religion.

Only good is expected to come from religion.

What does that have to do with anything? This isn't the religion perpetrating these acts, it's the men. Abraham, Muhammed, and Jesus never said anything about holes in condoms...

I'm committing millions of men women and children to a life of misery, how so?

I like how you rephrased that. Clever... However, I was referring more to how you're generalizing everyone who has a religious view on life. You're saying "These people are bad because of these atrocities, they are religious, therefor religion is bad.". The mullah's you speak of do the same thing. "In the past, westerners have abused our trust to perpetrate atrocities, therefor we shouldn't trust any westerner."

So you can continue to walk through life hating religion and religious people all you want, but you're just doing the exact same thing they do. So enjoy being a hypocrite.

 

[Perfect Circle]

@Richard

Will you please use the [/quote] tags to split up your quoted replies? It's hard to determine what you're saying and how to respond sometimes. Thx!

 

[richardlowellt]

@Richard

Will you please use the

tags to split up your quoted replies? It's hard to determine what you're saying and how to respond sometimes. Thx!

[/QUOTE]Sorry, I thought I was doing it right, I highlight the sentence I was to respond to and then hit the square "wrap tags around selected text" square at the top, is that what i should be doing? Like I have done here, thanks.

 

[Riverwolf]

So I'm mistaken, only good is NOT suppose to come from religion? Love thy neighbor, turn the other cheek, God is love, God loves as cares for us all, only satan is responsible for evil, ect. ect. We should expect a certain amount of evil to come from religion? What percentage should we expect?

"I form light, and create darkness. I make peace, and create evil. I the Lord do these things."
Isaiah 45:7

It is sad that many people forget this.

 

[Riverwolf]

But it's leaders are, and they are delivering a message straight from God, many of these religious leaders will tell you God has spoken to them and here is what he said to me.

Except that God said no such thing.

So are the religious leaders.

That's who I meant. ^_^

 

[Riverwolf]

I don't accept that, any addiction can be over come.

By you. Not everyone has your strength.

Smokers have the knowledge, everyone should know what it does to their body, they choose not to use that knowledge. Would you inject your loved ones with poison, thats what second hand smoke is, a poison, realizing this a person should go to any lengths to stop.

Even if they're constantly in very stressful situations? A co-worker of mine tried to stop smoking a while back, but started up again once she started working where we are: with very disobedient and difficult children. She gets stressed and depressed very easily.

Situations are key in this.

Were in the bible or the koran does it focus on self-discipline?

Don't know about the Qur'an, as I haven't read it much yet, but as for the Tanakh, the entire book of Proverbs is about discipline. Here's a sample: "Mastery of temper is high proof of intelligence, a quick temper makes folly worse than ever." (14:29)

Oh, and here's another passage from Proverbs: "To oppress the weak insults the Creator, kindness to the needy honors the Creator." (14:31)

As for the New Testament:

"Enter by the narrow gate, since the road that leads to destruction is wide and spacious, and many take it: but it is a narrow gate and a hard road that leads to life, and only a few find it." (Matt. 7:13-14)

This is just a sampling; I'd have to really dig in to find them all, and I don't have time at this moment. I encourage you to read it yourself.

 

[Perfect Circle]

@Richard

I just do it manually. You should be able to click the quote button, then it will automatically grab up all of the quotes from that post. So if you click quote for a post like...

A

B

C

You should see a response box with something like...

(quote=12354)
A

B

C
(/quote)

Then, for each point you want to respond to, you can just copy and past the different tags to fit your responses. Like so....

(quote=12354)
A
(/quote)

Response A

(quote=12354)
B
(/quote)

Response B

(quote=12354)
C
(/quote)

Response C

Just remember to use the bracket [] symbols instead of the parentheses () symbols I use to explain it. That way it will break it up and color it differently so it's easier to understand. Does that make sense? If it doesn't, PM me and I'll explain it more.

 

[richardlowellt]

and create evil. I the Lord do these things."

There is certainly little doubt about that. Here I am all powerful, all loving, able to do anything I choose, and I choose to create evil, a demon God for sure.

It is sad that many people forget this.[/QUOTE[/QUOTE]]I think it sad that people believe an imaginary being actually spoke these words.

 

[Riverwolf]

There is certainly little doubt about that. Here I am all powerful, all loving, able to do anything I choose, and I choose to create evil, a demon God for sure.

"All loving" is not in the Tanakh.

Clearly, with your logic, a god can only be all good or all evil, when I don't see good or evil in God.

I also noticed you completely ignored the "good," as if evil somehow negates good.

I think it sad that people believe an imaginary being actually spoke these words.

What DO you think people believe God is?

 

[methylatedghosts]

Dogmatic religious beliefs make one blinded, as in those who can't accept evolution because it is in direct conflict with what religion teaches them.

And educating oneself about the worlds religions makes you even more blinded?

Does this work for every subject? i.e. medicine, music, physics, language, cooking? Or just Religions?

 

[richardlowellt]

Richardlowellt:
Firstly by claiming Atheism is not a religion and thus doesn't count is terribly unscientific.

It's not unscientific at all, you keep trying to put Atheists on the same grounds as religion, evil done by Atheists is no different than evil done by the religious. Why do people continually try and say Atheism is a religion? It's a complete lack of belief in a God figure, no worship involved, I probably shouldn't even use the word "belief" I have the opinion that no God exists, I find the premiss to be illogical and unreasonable, quite different than believing in a mythical being and worshiping it, shaping my entire life around such a belief.

Again your beliefs about what would or would not have happened without religion present is pure speculation

No, I don't think it is, seeing how religion influenced the our species, how it shaped our history, it is very easy to extrapolate what would have happened without the interaction of religion.

. I could easily suggest that without religion to unite people, humanity would still be living in the stone age

Silly, people would have united without religion if for no other reason than for safety in numbers and the common good of all, no religion needed.

. This speculation is just as valid as yours, yet both are still hypothetical situations.

Not if we examine history as see how much progress religion has stifled.

I'm not going to spend a great deal of time with this thread as I've seen it's ilk too often. However, if I may offer some advice, I'd suggest you seriously question what you are accomplishing here.

I have time on my hands, and you? I am of the opinion that religion is and always has been a poison to our species, I here to hear opposing views, I hope to accomplish nothing, I'm not fool enough to think I'm going to change anyone's mind about their beliefs, but I am curious as to how and why they continually defend bad religious behavior, or the dogmatic mindset that many religions have.

 

[richardlowellt]

Don't know about the Qur'an, as I haven't read it much yet, but as for the Tanakh, the entire book of Proverbs is about discipline. Here's a sample: "Mastery of temper is high proof of intelligence, a quick temper makes folly worse than ever." (14:29)

Oh, and here's another passage from Proverbs: "To oppress the weak insults the Creator, kindness to the needy honors the Creator." (14:31)

As for the New Testament:

"Enter by the narrow gate, since the road that leads to destruction is wide and spacious, and many take it: but it is a narrow gate and a hard road that leads to life, and only a few find it." (Matt. 7:13-14)

This is just a sampling; I'd have to really dig in to find them all, and I don't have time at this moment. I encourage you to read it yourself.

[/QUOTE]OK, thanks for the info.

 

[richardlowellt]

"All loving" is not in the Tanakh.

And why isn't it?

Clearly, with your logic, a god can only be all good or all evil, when I don't see good or evil in God.

If you don't see either good or evil in a God you are left with a god devoid of any qualities, you must have a very different personal God than most. Can you think of any good reason why a god would choose evil over good?

I also noticed you completely ignored the "good," as if evil somehow negates good.

In Gods it certainly does. It is both illogical and unreasonable to believe a god could be anything but good, unless you want to propose that this Abrahamic god just doesn't care.

What DO you think people believe God is?

I supernatural being that looks after them answering prayers and is involved in their everyday life. They speak to it and it speaks back to them, or speaks to them through a religious leader.

 

[richardlowellt]

And educating oneself about the worlds religions makes you even more blinded?

Sure, the more fairy tales you read and believe the further from reality you get, the more blinded you become to real world events like evolution.

 

[Quagmire]

Sure, the more fairy tales you read and believe the further from reality you get, the more blinded you become to real world events like evolution.

If you're not interested in learning about religion(s), what are you doing here?