• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

after five years, i left islam. here's one huge contradiction in the qur`an

Tranquil Servant

Was M.I.A for a while
I suppose that you came to this conclusion assuming that Muhammad peace be upon him was the author and that he was writing the verses. That is the only explanation that would lead to your conclusion.

The Quraan is revealed through the angel Gabriel to Muhammad peace be upon him. Quraan is the Word of God, not a human, not words of the prophets.

As for two and three, I didn't understand what you were claiming.
This is very interesting that you would say the words of the Quran were revealed through the angel Gabriel to Muhammad but that it's the word of God cause I read the story of the prophet Muhammad and I don't remember the angel claiming to be THE angel Gabriel...another thing is why would the angel Gabriel come to give him revelations and not God himself...all the other prophets (which he claims to be a continuation and the last of) that came before him received revelations from God...
2 Corinthians 11:[URL='https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Corinthians+11:13&version=NRSV']13-15[/URL]
13 For such boasters are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder! Even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15 So it is not strange if his ministers also disguise themselves as ministers of righteousness. Their end will match their deeds.
 

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
Ummm. no it doesnt

Quraan is the Word of God.

If you want establish that there is a contradiction, you have to prove it based on that assumption even if you don't believe in it.

Chapter 111 condemns abu Lahab and says he will be burned in fire. It will only be a contradiction if abu lahab embraced Islam. And he had 10 years to do so and prove that Quraan is wrong. But he didn't.


DO you think that if Muhammad peace be upon him was writing the Quraan, would he take such a risk by condemning Abu lahab and implying that he will never come a muslim?

This chapter actually shows that Quraan is written by God for only God would now if Abu lahab would accept Islam or not.


It wasn't a risk that Muhammad say his uncle would never become a Muslim. Actually, it was the opposite of risk. He benefits in your eyes; a fulfilled prophecy. It worked in his favor, either way. This simple act is enough for you to attribute the words of men to the Most High.

The better question you should ask yourself is this:

If you were Muhammad, and you had received the Word of God from the angel Gabriel, accompanied with irrefutable proofs and miracles, would your uncle then turn around and deny your testimony and that of his other family members, for 10 YEARS, in favor of hellfire? It doesn't make any sense.


Where is the mercy of God that forced Muhammad's hand to write? Would you not humble yourself before the mercy of God and ask that Gabriel guide your uncle's hand, so that the testimony of his own flesh and blood be confirmed?

You will be judged in the same way.
 

Sabour

Well-Known Member
I don't remember the angel claiming to be THE angel Gabriel.

I am surprised that this wasn't mentioned. Here is a link. http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/183/muhammad-s-biography-part-3/

I would advise doing a research if you would like

another thing is why would the angel Gabriel come to give him revelations and not God himsel

That is just the way it happened. There would be no point of asking that question. God never revealed Himself before.

7:143

And when Moses arrived at Our appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he said, "My Lord, show me [Yourself] that I may look at You." [ Allah ] said, "You will not see Me, but look at the mountain; if it should remain in place, then you will see Me." But when his Lord appeared to the mountain, He rendered it level, and Moses fell unconscious. And when he awoke, he said, "Exalted are You! I have repented to You, and I am the first of the believers."
 

Sabour

Well-Known Member
It wasn't a risk that Muhammad say his uncle would never become a Muslim. Actually, it was the opposite of risk. He benefits in your eyes; a fulfilled prophecy. It worked in his favor, either way. This simple act is enough for you to attribute the words of men to the Most High.

When you take a decision not knowing the end reslt of it and whether it would benefit you or damage you. If you took a risk and it worked, it would still mean that you took a risk, which paid of. You can't come and say that if a risk worked, it is not a risk.

The point was, at that times, you wouldn't know who would embrace islam, and if Muhammad peace be upon him was inventing things up, he won't be risking the whole image of islam on one man.

This man (Abu Lahab) used to hate Islam so much that he would go after the Prophet wherever he goes to humiliate him. If he saw the prophet talking to strangers, he used to wait till he finishes and then ask them: What did Muhammad tell you? If he said it’s white then it’s in reality black and if he said it’s night then it’s day. He meant to falsify all what the prophet says and to make people suspicious about it. And 10 years before the death of Abu Lahab, a Sura was inspired to the prophet, named “Al-Masad”. This sura tells that Abu Lahab will go to hell, in other words, it says that Abu Lahab will not convert to Islam. During 10 years, Abu Lahab could have said: “Muhammad is saying that I will not become a Muslim and that I will go to the hell fire, but I’m telling you now that I want to convert to Islam and become a Muslim. What do you think about Muhammad now? Is he saying the truth or no? Does his inspiration come from God?”. But Abu Lahab did not do that at all although he was disobeying the prophet in all matters, but not in this one

If you were Muhammad, and you had received the Word of God from the angel Gabriel, accompanied with irrefutable proofs and miracles, would your uncle then turn around and deny your testimony and that of his other family members, for 10 YEARS, in favor of hellfire? It doesn't make any sense.


Well yeah not all people are good and not all like to live a rightous life.

But being christian yourself, how would you explan that Jesus peace be upon him had enemies who crucified him and didn't believe in his message.

Where is the mercy of God that forced Muhammad's hand to write? Would you not humble yourself before the mercy of God and ask that Gabriel guide your uncle's hand, so that the testimony of his own flesh and blood be confirmed?

Mercy is so beautiful, but not all deserve it. I find it odd that you as a christian and a believer in the bible would ask such questions.

28:56

Indeed, [O Muhammad], you do not guide whom you like, but Allah guides whom He wills. And He is most knowing of the [rightly] guided.


Here is the reason why the verse was revealed

Narrated Al-Musaiyab: When Abu Talib (another uncle of Muhammad peace be upon him) was on his death bed, Allah's Apostle came to him and found with him, Abu Jahl and Abdullah bin Abi Umaiya bin Al-Mughira. Allah's Apostle said, "O uncle! Say: None has the right to be worshipped except Allah, a sentence with which I will defend you before Allah." On that Abu Jahl and 'Abdullah bin Abi Umaiya said to Abu Talib, "Will you now leave the religion of 'Abdul Muttalib?" Allah's Apostle kept on inviting him to say that sentence while the other two kept on repeating their sentence before him till Abu Talib said as the last thing he said to them, "I am on the religion of 'Abdul Muttalib," and refused to say: None has the right to be worshipped except Allah. On that Allah's Apostle said, "By Allah, I will keep on asking Allah's forgiveness for you unless I am forbidden (by Allah) to do so." So Allah revealed:-- 'It is not fitting for the Prophet and those who believe that they should invoke (Allah) for forgiveness for pagans.' (9.113) And then Allah revealed especially about Abu Talib:--'Verily! You (O, Muhammad) guide not whom you like, but Allah guides whom He will.' (28.56) Sahih Bukhari Book #60, Hadith #295
 

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
When you take a decision not knowing the end reslt of it and whether it would benefit you or damage you. If you took a risk and it worked, it would still mean that you took a risk, which paid of. You can't come and say that if a risk worked, it is not a risk.

The point was, at that times, you wouldn't know who would embrace islam, and if Muhammad peace be upon him was inventing things up, he won't be risking the whole image of islam on one man.

This man (Abu Lahab) used to hate Islam so much that he would go after the Prophet wherever he goes to humiliate him. If he saw the prophet talking to strangers, he used to wait till he finishes and then ask them: What did Muhammad tell you? If he said it’s white then it’s in reality black and if he said it’s night then it’s day. He meant to falsify all what the prophet says and to make people suspicious about it. And 10 years before the death of Abu Lahab, a Sura was inspired to the prophet, named “Al-Masad”. This sura tells that Abu Lahab will go to hell, in other words, it says that Abu Lahab will not convert to Islam. During 10 years, Abu Lahab could have said: “Muhammad is saying that I will not become a Muslim and that I will go to the hell fire, but I’m telling you now that I want to convert to Islam and become a Muslim. What do you think about Muhammad now? Is he saying the truth or no? Does his inspiration come from God?”. But Abu Lahab did not do that at all although he was disobeying the prophet in all matters, but not in this one




Well yeah not all people are good and not all like to live a rightous life.

But being christian yourself, how would you explan that Jesus peace be upon him had enemies who crucified him and didn't believe in his message.



Mercy is so beautiful, but not all deserve it. I find it odd that you as a christian and a believer in the bible would ask such questions.

28:56

Indeed, [O Muhammad], you do not guide whom you like, but Allah guides whom He wills. And He is most knowing of the [rightly] guided.


Here is the reason why the verse was revealed

Narrated Al-Musaiyab: When Abu Talib (another uncle of Muhammad peace be upon him) was on his death bed, Allah's Apostle came to him and found with him, Abu Jahl and Abdullah bin Abi Umaiya bin Al-Mughira. Allah's Apostle said, "O uncle! Say: None has the right to be worshipped except Allah, a sentence with which I will defend you before Allah." On that Abu Jahl and 'Abdullah bin Abi Umaiya said to Abu Talib, "Will you now leave the religion of 'Abdul Muttalib?" Allah's Apostle kept on inviting him to say that sentence while the other two kept on repeating their sentence before him till Abu Talib said as the last thing he said to them, "I am on the religion of 'Abdul Muttalib," and refused to say: None has the right to be worshipped except Allah. On that Allah's Apostle said, "By Allah, I will keep on asking Allah's forgiveness for you unless I am forbidden (by Allah) to do so." So Allah revealed:-- 'It is not fitting for the Prophet and those who believe that they should invoke (Allah) for forgiveness for pagans.' (9.113) And then Allah revealed especially about Abu Talib:--'Verily! You (O, Muhammad) guide not whom you like, but Allah guides whom He will.' (28.56) Sahih Bukhari Book #60, Hadith #295
1) If I give you 10 years to convert to Christianity, will you do it? No. Writing it down here won't change your mind. We can come back in 10 years to check.

Neither men risked anything. Muhammad knew that he himself was a liar, and his uncle knew so as well. In your case, you would call me a liar, for telling you that you need to convert or be sent to hell. You're going to deny Christianity until you die.

2) It's the same with Jesus. He either didn't perform all of the miracles attributed to him, or he didn't do them publicly. If he had, they all would have believed. The four corners of the Earth would have folded inward to witness these things.

In this case Judas is comparable to Muhammad's uncle.

3) It is because I know God, that I know what man makes. Man determines mercy according to his pride. Because Muhammad's pride elevated itself to call itself God, it determined what mercy should be, and who it should be for.
 

Tranquil Servant

Was M.I.A for a while
That is just the way it happened. There would be no point of asking that question. God never revealed Himself before.
God did reveal himself to someone......Abraham....
Genesis 18:1-3
18 The Lord appeared to Abraham by the oaks of Mamre, as he sat at the entrance of his tent in the heat of the day. 2 He looked up and saw three men standing near him. When he saw them, he ran from the tent entrance to meet them, and bowed down to the ground. 3 He said, “My lord, if I find favor with you, do not pass by your servant.

Also I didn't say that God revealed Himself....I said he was the one who gave his prophets the revelations (and prophecies)...not the angel Gabriel.
Especially when it came to prophecies....it was always God himself.....it makes sense cause why would God give his message or revelation to one messenger to give to another messenger to deliver to the people when every other time he himself has always given HIS message to his messengers so they can deliver it.
I am surprised that this wasn't mentioned.
I'm surprised myself....being that it is (if not) the most important account in the prophet Muhammad's story, one of the most important but as far as i know it's not in the QURAN.....I've tried looking for the verse in the Quran where the angel who speaks to the prophet Muhammad say "I am the angel Gabriel, sent by God" But I still can't find it...:shrug:
 

Sabour

Well-Known Member
1) If I give you 10 years to convert to Christianity, will you do it? No. Writing it down here won't change your mind. We can come back in 10 years to check.

Neither men risked anything. Muhammad knew that he himself was a liar, and his uncle knew so as well. In your case, you would call me a liar, for telling you that you need to convert or be sent to hell. You're going to deny Christianity until you die.

2) It's the same with Jesus. He either didn't perform all of the miracles attributed to him, or he didn't do them publicly. If he had, they all would have believed. The four corners of the Earth would have folded inward to witness these things.

In this case Judas is comparable to Muhammad's uncle.

3) It is because I know God, that I know what man makes. Man determines mercy according to his pride. Because Muhammad's pride elevated itself to call itself God, it determined what mercy should be, and who it should be for.

1) This is not similar to that. Muhammad peace be upon him was one person who began Dawah. After the verse was revealed by 10 years, maybe hundreds of people in the same area as Abu lahab became muslims. Read about Ummar Ibn L KHattab's and how he was against Islam before he became a muslim. Read about other people to.

Second, I wouldn't know, and I wouldn't even know if someday I would become a christian. No body knows what happens actually. If you believe yourself that Christianity is true, don't you think that someday I would be "guided to the right path". If you don't, than I advise you reconsidering your beliefs.

2) How can you say that when according to the bible Jesus peace be upon him said that "I have spoken openly to the world. I have always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where all Jews come together. I have said nothing in secret.

3) The basic premise of Islam is saying there is no God except Allah and Islam criticizes those who took Jesus peace be upon him as god or "son" of god. Making such a claim is baseless.
 

-Peacemaker-

.45 Cal
In general I find the Koran to be unreadable incoherent book. I haven't studied it enough to find the contradictions because it cant hold my attention long enough. It literally looks like someone just strung to together a bunch of random sentences without giving any thought to creating a coherent structure. I can't find the thesis of the chapters I've read. I went into my reading of the Koran with a blank slate. I literally read no commentary about it whatsoever. I couldn't believe what j found when I opened it. I didn't expect to agree with it but I thought it would at least be a well written piece of literature. As it turns out may people in the western world are baffled why this attempt at poetry is given any regard at all as a piece of literature.
 

Sabour

Well-Known Member
God did reveal himself to someone......Abraham....

Not according to Islam

Also I didn't say that God revealed Himself....I said he was the one who gave his prophets the revelations (and prophecies)...not the angel Gabriel.
Especially when it came to prophecies....it was always God himself.....it makes sense cause why would God give his message or revelation to one messenger to give to another messenger to deliver to the people when every other time he himself has always given HIS message to his messengers so they can deliver it.

There is no answer according to my knowledge as to why it has to be through the angel, for me it makes no difference. Besides

42:51
And it is not for any human being that Allah should speak to him except by revelation or from behind a partition or that He sends a messenger to reveal, by His permission, what He wills. Indeed, He is Most High and Wise.

20: 9

And has the story of Moses reached you? -
20:10
When he saw a fire and said to his family, "Stay here; indeed, I have perceived a fire; perhaps I can bring you a torch or find at the fire some guidance."

20:11
And when he came to it, he was called, "O Moses,
20:12
Indeed, I am your Lord, so remove your sandals. Indeed, you are in the sacred valley of Tuwa.

20:13
And I have chosen you, so listen to what is revealed [to you].
20:14
Indeed, I am Allah . There is no deity except Me, so worship Me and establish prayer for My remembrance.

Moses peace be upon him is the only prophet that Allah talked to.


I'm surprised myself....being that it is (if not) the most important account in the prophet Muhammad's story, one of the most important but as far as i know it's not in the QURAN.....I've tried looking for the verse in the Quran where the angel who speaks to the prophet Muhammad say "I am the angel Gabriel, sent by God" But I still can't find it...

26
192 And indeed, the Qur'an is the revelation of the Lord of the worlds.

193 The Trustworthy Spirit has brought it down

194 Upon your heart, [O Muhammad] - that you may be of the warners -

195 In a clear Arabic language.

196 And indeed, it is [mentioned] in the scriptures of former peoples.

You have to read the life of the prophet or hadiths to know the details I guess.



 

Sabour

Well-Known Member
In general I find the Koran to be unreadable incoherent book. I haven't studied it enough to find the contradictions because it cant hold my attention long enough. It literally looks like someone just strung to together a bunch of random sentences without giving any thought to creating a coherent structure. I can't find the thesis of the chapters I've read. I went into my reading of the Koran with a blank slate. I literally read no commentary about it whatsoever. I couldn't believe what j found when I opened it. I didn't expect to agree with it but I thought it would at least be a well written piece of literature. As it turns out may people in the western world are baffled why this attempt at poetry is given any regard at all as a piece of literature.

I wish you would take these 10 mins to watch this video, that is if you like ofcourse.


 

Tranquil Servant

Was M.I.A for a while
Not according to Islam



There is no answer according to my knowledge as to why it has to be through the angel, for me it makes no difference. Besides

42:51
And it is not for any human being that Allah should speak to him except by revelation or from behind a partition or that He sends a messenger to reveal, by His permission, what He wills. Indeed, He is Most High and Wise.

20: 9

And has the story of Moses reached you? -
20:10
When he saw a fire and said to his family, "Stay here; indeed, I have perceived a fire; perhaps I can bring you a torch or find at the fire some guidance."

20:11
And when he came to it, he was called, "O Moses,
20:12
Indeed, I am your Lord, so remove your sandals. Indeed, you are in the sacred valley of Tuwa.

20:13
And I have chosen you, so listen to what is revealed [to you].
20:14
Indeed, I am Allah . There is no deity except Me, so worship Me and establish prayer for My remembrance.

Moses peace be upon him is the only prophet that Allah talked to.




26
192 And indeed, the Qur'an is the revelation of the Lord of the worlds.

193 The Trustworthy Spirit has brought it down

194 Upon your heart, [O Muhammad] - that you may be of the warners -

195 In a clear Arabic language.

196 And indeed, it is [mentioned] in the scriptures of former peoples.

You have to read the life of the prophet or hadiths to know the details I guess.


Aren't one of the pillars of Islam is for all Muslims to believe in all the books of the Abrahamic faiths...so why aren't most Muslims familiar with the bible or Torah and it's stories....I think Muslims should be familiar with the Christian and Jewish interpretations of the scriptures too....some of the most important details of these books are disregarded by Muslims meanwhile they are stories and scriptures that have been repeated and reiterated for ages now.
 

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
1) This is not similar to that. Muhammad peace be upon him was one person who began Dawah. After the verse was revealed by 10 years, maybe hundreds of people in the same area as Abu lahab became muslims. Read about Ummar Ibn L KHattab's and how he was against Islam before he became a muslim. Read about other people to.

Second, I wouldn't know, and I wouldn't even know if someday I would become a christian. No body knows what happens actually. If you believe yourself that Christianity is true, don't you think that someday I would be "guided to the right path". If you don't, than I advise you reconsidering your beliefs.

2) How can you say that when according to the bible Jesus peace be upon him said that "I have spoken openly to the world. I have always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where all Jews come together. I have said nothing in secret.

3) The basic premise of Islam is saying there is no God except Allah and Islam criticizes those who took Jesus peace be upon him as god or "son" of god. Making such a claim is baseless.


1) Nothing to do with the question.

No. I don't. What makes you more special than all those before you, who never convert? God determines what you will do, either way.

2) https://carm.org/did-jesus-never-say-anything-in-secret

3) You believe in free will. Your premise is undone by this alone. It's called autolatry.
 

Sabour

Well-Known Member
Aren't one of the pillars of Islam is for all Muslims to believe in all the books of the Abrahamic faiths...so why aren't most Muslims familiar with the bible or Torah and it's stories....I think Muslims should be familiar with the Christian and Jewish interpretations of the scriptures too....some of the most important details of these books are disregarded by Muslims meanwhile they are stories and scriptures that have been repeated and reiterated for ages now.

We believe in the Injeel and other revelations, however these revelations were distorted.

5;13
So for their breaking of the covenant We cursed them and made their hearts hard. They distort words from their [proper] usages and have forgotten a portion of that of which they were reminded. And you will still observe deceit among them, except a few of them. But pardon them and overlook [their misdeeds]. Indeed, Allah loves the doers of good.

5:41

O Messenger, let them not grieve you who hasten into disbelief of those who say, "We believe" with their mouths, but their hearts believe not, and from among the Jews. [They are] avid listeners to falsehood, listening to another people who have not come to you. They distort words beyond their [proper] usages, saying "If you are given this, take it; but if you are not given it, then beware." But he for whom Allah intends fitnah - never will you possess [power to do] for him a thing against Allah . Those are the ones for whom Allah does not intend to purify their hearts. For them in this world is disgrace, and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment.

5:48

And We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture and as a criterion over it. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth. To each of you We prescribed a law and a method. Had Allah willed, He would have made you one nation [united in religion], but [He intended] to test you in what He has given you; so race to [all that is] good. To Allah is your return all together, and He will [then] inform you concerning that over which you used to differ.


2:79

So woe to those who write the "scripture" with their own hands, then say, "This is from Allah ," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn.



 

Sabour

Well-Known Member
1) Nothing to do with the question.

No. I don't. What makes you more special than all those before you, who never convert? God determines what you will do, either way.

2) https://carm.org/did-jesus-never-say-anything-in-secret

3) You believe in free will. Your premise is undone by this alone. It's called autolatry.

1) At some point you say no and at some point you say God determines what I will do, how come? that is a contradiction.

2) If that is true, why would Jesus peace be upon him teach something in private ?

You asked about the Mercy of God with the verse that talks about his uncle. If you have these thoughts than let me ask you, where is the mercy of God that makes Jesus peace be upon him teach something in secret? If you apply to this logic, how would you explain these verses in the bible

Duetronomy 13

6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again.

3) I believe in the freedom of choice under the circumstances and the will of God. Don't assume things and draw conclusions on them.

No muslim believes in the free will in the sense you are implying that means we can do whatever we want at anytime we want.


 

uncung

Member
This is very interesting that you would say the words of the Quran were revealed through the angel Gabriel to Muhammad but that it's the word of God cause I read the story of the prophet Muhammad and I don't remember the angel claiming to be THE angel Gabriel...another thing is why would the angel Gabriel come to give him revelations and not God himself...all the other prophets (which he claims to be a continuation and the last of) that came before him received revelations from God...
2 Corinthians 11:13-15
13 For such boasters are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder! Even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15 So it is not strange if his ministers also disguise themselves as ministers of righteousness. Their end will match their deeds.

In Islam we do believe prophets had never seen the God. They received the revelations via angel Gabriel.
Receiving revelation via angel is not the problem at all.
 

uncung

Member
In general I find the Koran to be unreadable incoherent book. I haven't studied it enough to find the contradictions because it cant hold my attention long enough. It literally looks like someone just strung to together a bunch of random sentences without giving any thought to creating a coherent structure. I can't find the thesis of the chapters I've read. I went into my reading of the Koran with a blank slate. I literally read no commentary about it whatsoever. I couldn't believe what j found when I opened it. I didn't expect to agree with it but I thought it would at least be a well written piece of literature. As it turns out may people in the western world are baffled why this attempt at poetry is given any regard at all as a piece of literature.
The existing Quran is sufficient to deliver us to gain salvation and paradise in hereafter no matter what.
 

Crypto2015

Active Member
one, yesterday i discovered that in the qur`an, chapter 11 verse 1 states that the verses are perfected and explained in detail, but all of chapter 111 is clearly about muhammad wanting revenge on his uncle and her wife. the entire message of the qur`an would be benefited without that chapter. how are those perfected verses?

two, even if you believe it's supposed to be hard to understand (which makes no sense because that can cause huge amounts of misinterpretation and chaos), that is still not explanation in detail, therefore it also makes the qur`an imperfect and completely contradicts chapter 11 verse 1.

three, it's as if people thought muhammad's complaints about family were teachings and added it into the qur`an. also, these are things that people believed muhammad said sorted out by people other than muhammad. if this chapter is in there, that further destroys its credibility.

four (as asked on page 6), why are the famous mysterious letters (i.e. alif lam ra) added into the qur`an with no explanation for them? and if they weren't in the actual qur`an, then a huge part of the world has been misguided by this. this contradicts chapter 11 verse 1

there are so many verses in the qur`an that are extremely hard to understand. and if you say it wasn't talking about every verse, then that would make chapter 11 verse 1 contradict even itself.

i do still however follow God. just with no religion.

Alif, Lam, Ra. [This is] a Book whose verses are perfected and then presented in detail from [one who is] Wise and Acquainted.
(Qur'an 11:1)

Alif, Lam, Meem.
(Qur'an 2:1)

According to the translator, no one but Allah knows what "Alif, Lam, Meem" means. So much for all verses being "presented in detail".
 
Last edited:

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
1) At some point you say no and at some point you say God determines what I will do, how come? that is a contradiction.

2) If that is true, why would Jesus peace be upon him teach something in private ?

You asked about the Mercy of God with the verse that talks about his uncle. If you have these thoughts than let me ask you, where is the mercy of God that makes Jesus peace be upon him teach something in secret? If you apply to this logic, how would you explain these verses in the bible

Duetronomy 13

6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again.

3) I believe in the freedom of choice under the circumstances and the will of God. Don't assume things and draw conclusions on them.

No muslim believes in the free will in the sense you are implying that means we can do whatever we want at anytime we want.

1) I'm not God. There is no contradiction. What I believe and what God knows aren't always the same.

2) Why does anyone keep things hidden, or covered? Why are Muslim women commanded to cover their heads in public, but not in private while with their husbands?

Often, the teaching of God requires a head covering. Those who lust after the truth are seduced by very little, and when the time comes that the truth reveals itself to the one it intends to marry, in greater detail, it is in private.

And those who have no attraction to women will not lust after a woman, whether she is covered or completely naked.

--

If Cain is your father, you will lust after his example. The mercy of God on Cain is sevenfold. A murderer is free to go on in this Earth, but it becomes seven times more difficult to achieve peace, and impossible to achieve lasting peace. And for each offense, whether it be another murder or another recruitment of the same murderous attitude (i.e. building of an army accompanied that of the building of a city), the mercy of God grows exponentially.

This is why the U.S. has been able to rape and pillage the world without much consequence. We have the most powerful military on the planet. The mercy of God has grown exponentially here. If you want peace, you will listen and follow me, not Cain's words in Deuteronomy.


3) Free will is incompatible with monotheism. Period.
 
Last edited:

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Alif, Lam, Ra. [This is] a Book whose verses are perfected and then presented in detail from [one who is] Wise and Acquainted.
(Qur'an 11:1)

Alif, Lam, Meem.
(Qur'an 2:1)

According to the translator, no one but Allah knows what "Alif, Lam, Meem" means. So much for all verses being "presented in detail".
Translators give their own opinion, they don't represent G-d or Quran.
Regards
 
Top