• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

after five years, i left islam. here's one huge contradiction in the qur`an

Debater Slayer

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
Augustus said:
@Debater Slayer @firedragon

How would you translate this الر كِتَابٌ أُحْكِمَتْ آيَاتُهُ ثُمَّ فُصِّلَتْ مِن لَّدُنْ حَكِيمٍ خَبِيرٍ ? (Quran 11:1)

This seems to have one of the widest range of translations I've seen for any verse.
Click to expand...

This translation looks pretty good to me:

Alif, Lam, Ra. [This is] a Book whose verses are perfected and then presented in detail from [one who is] Wise and Acquainted.
Click to expand...

From here: http://quran.com/11
 
Debater Slayer

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
firedragon said:
Are saying it or is that someones word through you? If its yours, whats the basis? External documents that have stories that you want to believe in? Are they coherent with eachother. You may even contrdict the Quran trying to render it through them.



Well, there could be other extensive study as well. The thing is, your scholarly knowledge is not based on the language or the Quran, its based on other documents.



I said Bukhari claims that 28 chapters of the Quran dont have Ahadith to back it up.

They tried their best to relate Ahadith to the Quranic verses and couldnt find any verse that even remotely correlate to 28 chapters. Thats it.



Thank you so much for this stupendous information. I shall read it during prime time.



Well, if you believe in Ibn Kathirs story, then you have to believe that earth rests on a whale in the sea.

Well since you mentioned others maybe you should dig up Qurtubi and Tabari as well. They agree with the whale carrying the earth.

Contradicting much? Yep.
Click to expand...

Well, since you are apparently ignoring scholarly knowledge just because of some perceived flaws, I can't help but believe that this discussion will most likely go in circles and be fruitless.

I will leave this here for the benefit of those who want to read more about the "whale carrying the earth" story and its likely origins:

https://islamqa.info/en/114861
 
K

Kelvin Davidson

Member
out of the 125 comments, no one actually disproved me. now here's something to think about: there are a lot of "mathematic miracles" in the qur`an. isn't it ironic that what i found out on the first day of ramadan directly relates chapter 111 to chapter 11 verse 1? the number 1 represents the beginning of something.
 
Sakeenah

Sakeenah

Well-Known Member
Kelvin Davidson said:
out of the 125 comments, no one actually disproved me. now here's something to think about: there are a lot of "mathematic miracles" in the qur`an. isn't it ironic that what i found out on the first day of ramadan directly relates chapter 111 to chapter 11 verse 1? the number 1 represents the beginning of something.
Click to expand...

o_O

Since when are there mathematic miracles in the Quran?
 
Ignorant Philosopher

Ignorant Philosopher

Freethinker
Kelvin Davidson said:
out of the 125 comments, no one actually disproved me. now here's something to think about: there are a lot of "mathematic miracles" in the qur`an. isn't it ironic that what i found out on the first day of ramadan directly relates chapter 111 to chapter 11 verse 1? the number 1 represents the beginning of something.
Click to expand...

Logical Fallacy

Shifting the Burden of Proof

You made the positive claim so now you have to provide evidence for it.
 
Augustus

Augustus

…
Debater Slayer said:
What do you make of the fact that his life is described in so much detail, personally?
Click to expand...

Because I find it highly incongruous that people can get the specifics in a detailed manner but not the basics.

If someone makes basic errors then I'll assume the rest of their story is flawed. This is how I view the sirah with recourse to its historicity.

Significant parts are simply made up,which is to be expected as history as a theoretically objective academic discipline didn't exist at this point.



Debater Slayer said:
Do you think the parts about A'isha's age in different sirahs have been intentionally tampered with?
Click to expand...

Who knows?

Even if you accept the sirah as mostly accurate, there is a case for moving the marriage forward to refute questions of her lack of chastity, given other controversies.

In contrast to the modern era, making her younger would have been more useful back then.

Personally, I don't find this a particularly useful point of conjecture though as it is unprovable, and within the boundaries of normal historical conduct either way.
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
Debater Slayer said:
Do you think the parts about A'isha's age in different sirahs have been intentionally tampered with?
Click to expand...

Do you believe its a mistake? Or is it intentional?

Its almost impossible that its intentional due to the Fan. It is definitely two narrations and each calculates based on the age of Asma and the marriage age etc etc, either one of them or both got it wrong. Although, AIshas narration of marriage at 6 and joining age of 9 could be intentional tampering because it is a direct story (Of course with the sanad).

In short, its ALMOST impossible.
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
Debater Slayer said:
Well, since you are apparently ignoring scholarly knowledge just because of some perceived flaws, I can't help but believe that this discussion will most likely go in circles and be fruitless.
Click to expand...

Well, since you are apparently embracing THIS scholarly knowledge, do you believe in this scholarly knowledge you quote? Do you believe in Ibn Kathir?
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Kelvin Davidson said:
one, yesterday i discovered that in the qur`an, chapter 11 verse 1 states that the verses are perfected and explained in detail, but all of chapter 111 is clearly about muhammad wanting revenge on his uncle and her wife. the entire message of the qur`an would be benefited without that chapter. how are those perfected verses?
two, even if you believe it's supposed to be hard to understand (which makes no sense because that can cause huge amounts of misinterpretation and chaos), that is still not explanation in detail, therefore it also makes the qur`an imperfect and completely contradicts chapter 11 verse 1.
three, it's as if people thought muhammad's complaints about family were teachings and added it into the qur`an. also, these are things that people believed muhammad said sorted out by people other than muhammad. if this chapter is in there, that further destroys its credibility.
four (as asked on page 6), why are the famous mysterious letters (i.e. alif lam ra) added into the qur`an with no explanation for them? and if they weren't in the actual qur`an, then a huge part of the world has been misguided by this. this contradicts chapter 11 verse 1
there are so many verses in the qur`an that are extremely hard to understand. and if you say it wasn't talking about every verse, then that would make chapter 11 verse 1 contradict even itself.
i do still however follow God. just with no religion.
Click to expand...
You are simply incorrect in your understanding the verses, nothing wrong with Quran/Islam/Muhammad .
Regards
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top