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Age of Earth

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Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Riverwolf said:
I'm not surprised. The longer we spend with our specific way of seeing the world, the more "out there" conflicting ways get. Frankly, the entire notion of a supernatural creator is as foreign to me as the idea of everything being Stardust must be to you, or the idea that human sacrifice causes the sun to rise probably is to both of us.
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I don't care what people believe. I do care if they try to pass their beliefs/theories off as facts, then expect me to argue them in the context of an accepted ''factual'' default. Just because you think something is false, does not make it so.
 
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Valjean

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
elijoe_15 said:
Validity was poor word choice.The Bible has actual historical evidence in the forms of thousands of manuscripts of recordings in the Bible which confirm the truth of Christ.
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Name a few.
In fact, there are no first person, eyewitness accounts of Jesus at all. Josephus gives eyewitness accounts of Christians, but not of Christ, for example.
 
elijoe_15

elijoe_15

Member
Emergence said:
That's debatable. What physical evidence can you provide that either the Big Bang theory or the theory of evolution are flawed? Please make sure that you do not use logical fallacies such as the "argument from ignorance", the "argument from consequences" or anything else like that when you respond.
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Umm well lets start with birth.Life is made,not evolved or randomly appeared.Have you ever heard of someone being made in a lab or slowly becoming human from nothing?
 
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Parsimony

Well-Known Member
elijoe_15 said:
Umm well lets start with birth.Life is made,not evolved or randomly appeared.Have you ever heard of someone being made in a lab or slowly becoming human from nothing?
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This is the straw-man fallacy. Evolution does not say anything about life coming from nothing, let alone a human coming from nothing. Nor does it have anything to do with humans being created artificially in a lab. Do you know what evolution even is? Can you define it?
 
Marisa

Marisa

Well-Known Member
elijoe_15 said:
You're right God's love is as far as the east is from the west so it can't be understood
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I'm sure that eases the cognitive dissonance for some. But I've read the bible. ALL of it, not just the pink fuzzy warm and bubbly stuff. The genocide. The infanticide. That crap is so easily understood, it might blow your mind.
 
SkepticThinker

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
elijoe_15 said:
He still loved them he just let them do of their own free will.His condition wasn't "Eat of this tree and I will no longer love you"
It is important to note that God’s love is a love that initiates; it is never a response. That is precisely what makes it unconditional. If God’s love were conditional, then we would have to do something to earn or merit it. We would have to somehow appease His wrath and cleanse ourselves of our sin before God would be able to love us. But that is not the biblical message. The biblical message—the gospel—is that God, motivated by love, moved unconditionally to save His people from their sin.
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Can you address what I actually said instead of parroting religious propaganda?

We do apparently have to do something to earn or merit this god's love. It's not unconditional love if there's a condition attached. The condition being that you have to believe "he" exists, accept "him" as the "holy spirit" and submit to his whims. As you said, you don't get into heaven otherwise. According to you, even just questioning "his" morality is a no-no. All of this without any good evidence of "his" existence.

The Adam and Eve stuff just plain doesn't make any sense. Your god expected them to have knowledge of good and evil before they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil?? How on earth does that work? How can you know you're sinning if you don't actually know you're sinning?
 
elijoe_15

elijoe_15

Member
Emergence said:
This is the straw-man fallacy. Evolution does not say anything about life coming from nothing, let alone a human coming from nothing. Nor does it have anything to do with humans being created artificially in a lab. Do you know what evolution even is? Can you define it?
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I do understand that there is a difference between just evolution and the theory of evolution,to which are you referring?
 
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Parsimony

Well-Known Member
elijoe_15 said:
I do understand that there is a difference between just evolution and the theory of evolution,to which are you referring?
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Give me a description of the process and how it works (or rather, what you think scientists say the process is and how it works).
 
Riverwolf

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
elijoe_15 said:
No its just that you're beliefs are just so obscure,it's like your basing your beliefs on Harry Potter or something,why would you devote your life to an obvious book of fiction?
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I only read Harry Potter once, many years ago. I liked the books, sure, but I'm hardly a fan. I don't "devote my life" to any book.

When I say Stardust, I mean the term quite literally, as I said: dust from stars. Everything in this Solar System, including Earth and everything on Her, formed from a nebula; i.e., dust left over from a star that died. AKA, Stardust.

This is not obscure, not in the least. It's been reinforced all my life, time and time again, such that it's as fundamental to me, and everyone around me, and the vast majority of people I've talked to in real life AND on the internet, as the sky being blue. On the other hand, creationism seems obscure to me; in person, I think I've only ever met... 1, maybe 2, creationists of the type you describe in my life; all other creationists I've ever interacted with have been on the internet.

disciple said:
I don't care what people believe. I do care if they try to pass their beliefs/theories off as facts, then expect me to argue them in the context of an accepted ''factual'' default. wont happen.
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Nor should it, if you have no reason to.
 
Marisa

Marisa

Well-Known Member
elijoe_15 said:
If you read the Bible it says in Genesis that he gave Adam and Eve everything they could ever need but he also gave them the freedom to choose to sin or not and they did.God loved them unconditionally and in that he chose not to control them.What we as humans consider as just is not always just to God.God is the original creator of "justice" so it isn't right of us to question him about fairness.He really makes it easy.All we have to do is believe in him and follow his word and we get to go to Heaven.It's that simple.
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And yet, before consuming the fruit, neither Adam nor Eve possessed the moral agency to be able to evaluate their actions for right and wrong. Yet god placed the temptation before them, without the capacity to understand the consequences of choosing wrong, and punished them anyway. That is not loving. Do you place a piece of candy on a low table in front of a 4 year old and say "don't eat it" then leave the room, and punish the child for then eating the candy YOU left them, KNOWING they hadn't the capacity to understand their own actions? If that's what you believe of your god, then you believe in a pathetically stupid god which hasn't the capacity to understand its own creation. And you think this is hard to understand?
 
Riverwolf

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
Marisa said:
I'm sure that eases the cognitive dissonance for some. But I've read the bible. ALL of it, not just the pink fuzzy warm and bubbly stuff. The genocide. The infanticide. That crap is so easily understood, it might blow your mind.
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I've tried reading the Book of Joshua. Twice.

I never could finish it. It's just too horrific, the stuff that happens in that book. Step aside, Game of Thrones.
 
elijoe_15

elijoe_15

Member
Riverwolf said:
I only read Harry Potter once, many years ago. I liked the books, sure, but I'm hardly a fan. I don't "devote my life" to any book.

When I say Stardust, I mean the term quite literally, as I said: dust from stars. Everything in this Solar System, including Earth and everything on Her, formed from a nebula; i.e., dust left over from a star that died. AKA, Stardust.

This is not obscure, not in the least. It's been reinforced all my life, time and time again, such that it's as fundamental to me, and everyone around me, and the vast majority of people I've talked to in real life AND on the internet, as the sky being blue. On the other hand, creationism seems obscure to me; in person, I think I've only ever met... 1, maybe 2, creationists of the type you describe in my life; all other creationists I've ever interacted with have been on the internet.



Nor should it, if you have no reason to.
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Where you there at the creation of earth? How can you just say it came from stardust?
 
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