Age of the Earth.

[Dirty Penguin]

The age of the earth. can be dated with Carbon, radiometric, etc. but you can always look up at the stars for a more broad age. Everyone knows that the speed of light isn't instant but around 186,000 miles per second(approximate). Everyone also knows the universe is at least 1 billion light years(distance light can travel in a year). The andromeda galaxy light we see today is around 3 billion years old, effectively seeing Andromeda 3 billion years ago. There you have it, the Earth is at least 3 billion years old because of Andromeda light taking that long to reach Earth. Also the fact that since the Earth was created only 2 days AFTER the entire universe was formed according to creationists... it would mean we would only see around 40 stars in a clear night. Astronomy ftw.

This is by far one of the best ways to date the earth. Testing rocks is great but always seem to be met with scrutiny by creationist but using the distance method above blows that "6000" year old earth hypothesis away.

:clap

 

[JustWondering2]

The age of the earth. can be dated with Carbon, radiometric, etc. but you can always look up at the stars for a more broad age. Everyone knows that the speed of light isn't instant but around 186,000 miles per second(approximate). Everyone also knows the universe is at least 1 billion light years(distance light can travel in a year). The andromeda galaxy light we see today is around 3 billion years old, effectively seeing Andromeda 3 billion years ago. There you have it, the Earth is at least 3 billion years old because of Andromeda light taking that long to reach Earth. Also the fact that since the Earth was created only 2 days AFTER the entire universe was formed according to creationists... it would mean we would only see around 40 stars in a clear night. Astronomy ftw.

Sorry guys, but! The Andromeda Galaxy is 2.5 Million (with an M) light years from the Milky Way Galaxy! By the way it's headed in our general direction and in about 3-4 Billion years our Galaxy and the Andromeda Galaxy will collide.

Just thought I'd clear that up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andromeda_Galaxy

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Sorry guys, but! The Andromeda Galaxy is 2.5 Million (with an M) light years from the Milky Way Galaxy! By the way it's headed in our general direction and in about 3-4 Billion years our Galaxy and the Andromeda Galaxy will collide.

Just thought I'd clear that up.
Andromeda Galaxy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Aw yes....(silly me for missing that).....

Thank you for the clarification. It's nice that even with the clarification the evidence still points to an old earth.

Now, for our creationist friends, let's consider the following...

http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n0402/15lens/
"Located an estimated 13 billion light-years away, the object is being viewed at a time only 750 million years after the big bang, when the Universe was barely 5 percent of its current age."


And the following...

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/03/080331122543.htm
" In the case of LBG-2377, scientists believe the light has been traveling for 11.4 billion years, beginning just a few billion years after the Big Bang when the universe was only 15 percent of its current age. By comparison, the Earth was formed about 4.5 billion years ago. The process of galaxy formation largely is a mystery. Current theory is that large galaxies formed over time from the interaction and merging of smaller galaxies. This process began more than 12 billion years ago, shortly after the Big Bang."

 

[The Voice of Reason]

" In the case of LBG-2377 ..."

Are you telling us that the universe has Lesbian, Bi, and Gay galaxies now?

Oh, the humiliation ...

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Are you telling us that the universe has Lesbian, Bi, and Gay galaxies now?

Oh, the humiliation ...

You dirty...dirty...old man....

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Guilty as charged ...

 

[S-word]

Empirical evidence is not out of harmony with Genesis.
Besides earth's age the universe is dated to something like 13.7 billion.
Thus proving the universe had a start or beginning.
CMBR [cosmic microwave background radiation] is accurate because of the accuracy of the microwaves. There is no dating or time length for the six creative days.
All of the creative days are summed up as 'a day' at Gen 2:4
There is no close to the 7th day or time period.

Correct! This universal body, which is the seventh generation of the heavens and the earth, is only 13.7 billion years old. But this, the seventh generation of the universe, will roll up as a scroll with a great hissing noise and the universal elements will burn up and fall as massive columns of fire into the Great Abyss/Black Hole, from which it originated. It is the eighth eternal heaven of light, that God created to be the first after his works, in which there in neither years, months, weeks, days, or hours, for all time shall be stuck together in one aeon, and there is no close to the eighth Cosmic day in which, the previous seven generations of the universe revolve eternally.

 

[darkendless]

I love how easily bible bashers can translate 6 creative days into 13.7 bllion years. Absolutely priceless.

 

[S-word]

I love how easily bible bashers can translate 6 creative days into 13.7 bllion years. Absolutely priceless.

I believe in the veiws of many scientists, that this universe was created from the big Bang which spatially separated the infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singulasarity, which was a previous universe that had fallen into the Great abyss from which it originated, and that this Galactic cluster/universe is falling in toward one of the many Super duper Blak Hole scattered throughout the eternal and boundless comos.

I believe as do the Buddhists, that Universe after universe is like an interminable succession of wheels forever coming into view, forever rolling onwards, disappearing and reappearing; forever passing from being to non being, and again from non being to being. In short, the constant revolving of the wheel of life in one eternal cycle, according to fixed and immutable laws, is perhaps after all the sum and substance of the philosophy of Buddhism. And this eternal wheel has so to speak, six spokes representing six forms of existence.” ---- Mon. Williams, Buddhism, pp. 229, 122.

I believe that the nights and days of Brahma are called Manvantara or the cycle of manifestation, ‘The Great Day,’ which is a period of universal activity, that is preceded, and also followed by ‘Pralaya,’ a dark period, which to our finite minds seems as an eternity. ‘Manvantara,’ is a creative day as seen in the six days of creation in Genesis, ‘Pralaya,’ is the evening that precedes the next creative day. The six periods of Creation and the seventh day of rest in which we now exist are referred to in the book of Genesis as the generations of the universe.

I believe that the English word “Generation,” is translated from the Hebrew “toledoth” which is used in the Old Testament in every instance as ‘births,’ or ‘descendants,’ such as “These are the generations of Adam,” or “these are the generations of Abraham, and Genesis 2: 4; These are the generations of the Universe or heavens and earth, etc. And the ‘Great Day’ in which the seven generations of the universe are eternally repeated, is the eternal cosmic period of the eighth eternal day in which those who attain to perfection are allowed to enter, where they shall be surrounded by great light and they shall experience eternal peace, while those who do not attain to perfection are cast back into the refining fires of the seven physical cycles that perpetually revolve within the eighth eternal cosmic cycle.

I believe, as did Origen, who was a Christian writer and teacher who lived between the years of 185 and 254 AD. Among his many works is the Hexapla, which is his interpretation of the Old Testament texts. Origen holds to a series of worlds following one upon the other,-- each world rising a step higher than the previous world, so that every later world brings to ripeness the seeds that were imbedded in the former, and itself then prepares the seed for the universe that will follow it.
But I wont lose any sleep just because you cannot agree with this.

 

[darkendless]

I believe in the veiws of many scientists, that this universe was created from the big Bang which spatially separated the infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singulasarity, which was a previous universe that had fallen into the Great abyss from which it originated, and that this Galactic cluster/universe is falling in toward one of the many Super duper Blak Hole scattered throughout the eternal and boundless comos.

I believe as do the Buddhists, that Universe after universe is like an interminable succession of wheels forever coming into view, forever rolling onwards, disappearing and reappearing; forever passing from being to non being, and again from non being to being. In short, the constant revolving of the wheel of life in one eternal cycle, according to fixed and immutable laws, is perhaps after all the sum and substance of the philosophy of Buddhism. And this eternal wheel has so to speak, six spokes representing six forms of existence.” ---- Mon. Williams, Buddhism, pp. 229, 122.

I believe that the nights and days of Brahma are called Manvantara or the cycle of manifestation, ‘The Great Day,’ which is a period of universal activity, that is preceded, and also followed by ‘Pralaya,’ a dark period, which to our finite minds seems as an eternity. ‘Manvantara,’ is a creative day as seen in the six days of creation in Genesis, ‘Pralaya,’ is the evening that precedes the next creative day. The six periods of Creation and the seventh day of rest in which we now exist are referred to in the book of Genesis as the generations of the universe.

I believe that the English word “Generation,” is translated from the Hebrew “toledoth” which is used in the Old Testament in every instance as ‘births,’ or ‘descendants,’ such as “These are the generations of Adam,” or “these are the generations of Abraham, and Genesis 2: 4; These are the generations of the Universe or heavens and earth, etc. And the ‘Great Day’ in which the seven generations of the universe are eternally repeated, is the eternal cosmic period of the eighth eternal day in which those who attain to perfection are allowed to enter, where they shall be surrounded by great light and they shall experience eternal peace, while those who do not attain to perfection are cast back into the refining fires of the seven physical cycles that perpetually revolve within the eighth eternal cosmic cycle.

I believe, as did Origen, who was a Christian writer and teacher who lived between the years of 185 and 254 AD. Among his many works is the Hexapla, which is his interpretation of the Old Testament texts. Origen holds to a series of worlds following one upon the other,-- each world rising a step higher than the previous world, so that every later world brings to ripeness the seeds that were imbedded in the former, and itself then prepares the seed for the universe that will follow it.
But I wont lose any sleep just because you cannot agree with this.

Belief is a lot different to reality. What you believe is irrelevant to the processes of nature and how they came to be.

I wouldn't lose sleep either.

 

[S-word]

Belief is a lot different to reality. What you believe is irrelevant to the processes of nature and how they came to be.

I wouldn't lose sleep either.

Are you saying that you put no stock in the Big Bang theory which is considered to be the best model of the creation of the universe according to the data that has been accumulated by mankind to date?

And do you dismiss entirely, the theory that we have evolved in a cyclic universe, that oscillates between a visible state of Matter, and an invisible state of non-matter?

Having claimed that my belief is irrelevant to the processes of nature by which they came to be, would you please explain to us, how you believe that the heavens and earth came into existence and if they have a predetermined life span, or if they are part and parcel of the eternal singularity that is all that ever was, and all that is, and all that will ever be? Or do you prefer to remain a negative knocker?

 

[darkendless]

Are you saying that you put no stock in the Big Bang theory which is considered to be the best model of the creation of the universe according to the data that has been accumulated by mankind to date?

The bing bag theory is at the moment, at best, a prediction. Until it can be proven beyond reasonable doubt what good is it?

And do you dismiss entirely, the theory that we have evolved in a cyclic universe, that oscillates between a visible state of Matter, and an invisible state of non-matter?

For the same reasons as i do not put my lack of faith in the big bang, yes.

Having claimed that my belief is irrelevant to the processes of nature by which they came to be, would you please explain to us, how you believe that the heavens and earth came into existence and if they have a predetermined life span, or if they are part and parcel of the eternal singularity that is all that ever was, and all that is, and all that will ever be? Or do you prefer to remain a negative knocker?

I simply don't believe. Proof is beyond our understanding at the moment.

I'm not one for making assumptions with no base.

 

[S-word]

The bing bag theory is at the moment, at best, a prediction. Until it can be proven beyond reasonable doubt what good is it?



For the same reasons as i do not put my lack of faith in the big bang, yes.



I simply don't believe. Proof is beyond our understanding at the moment.

I'm not one for making assumptions with no base.

And so, according to you, those who believe the universe was created some few thousand years ago, have as much claim to the truth as those who accept the Big Bang theory and would argue that this universe, is some 13.75 billion years old. Am I correct?

 

[darkendless]

And so, according to you, those who believe the universe was created some few thousand years ago, have as much claim to the truth as those who accept the Big Bang theory and would argue that this universe, is some 13.75 billion years old. Am I correct?

No, certain facts such as geology put those people who believe in a young creation in their place.

 

[S-word]

Wrong, wrong wrong!! The Sun (our sun) predates the Earth by Millions of years. The cloud of material that condensed into the earth was made to do so by the expansion of material once our Sun started shining. That same expansion caused the formation of all the planets in our solar system. I guess you didn't take science in school or maybe you just failed it! Oh and our sun has nothing to do with the Super Massive Black Hole at the center of the MW galaxy, short of a very very weak gravitation affect.

Further more our sun is NOT a 1st generation star (one created shortly after the big bang) it is at least a 2nd or 3rd generation star.

What a pity that you do not have the ability to even understand what you have read, and you have need of someone to enunciate and explain it to you, word for word.
So now, let us go back and read what was written in post 217, and I will explain to you exactly what you were unable to understand, something that I believe any child should have been able to see.

Originally quoted by S-word; You ask the Age of the Earth. It is a little older than the sun which was the last body to be created in our solar system from the condensing cloud of elements, which were divided from the great nebula, which was the residue of a first generation star that imploded and created the Super Black Hole at the centre of our Galaxy.

It was the first generation star that had been created from the Quantum of the liquid like electromagnetic energy that was spewed out in the billions of degrees with the Big Bang. Do you understand that now?


It was that first generation star that had imploded in upon itself, when some ninety percent of the first generation star, was crushed by the massive gravitational force, leaving nothing but an apparent Black Hole. Now, do you understand that?


It was around that massive Black Hole that was formed with the super nova of that first generation star, which began to revolve the elements, that had been formed within the massive first generation star, and which elements were blasted outward with the super nova, to be seen as the great nebula from which our Milky Way galaxy has formed. Got that matey, is it beginning to sink in yet?

And it was from the elements within that Great nebula cloud that would become the Milky Way Galaxy, that some of those elements were divided and began to condense to become our solar system within the evolving Milky Way Galaxy, which was forming around the massive Black Hole that was created by the super nova of a first generation star. Is the light beginning to dawn on you as yet?


As the cloud that would become our solar system, which had been divided from the greater nebula cloud that would become the Galaxy, condensed, rings of elements were blown off from the glowing hot condensing cloud, which rings condensed to become dry land, or rather, the planets. And organic molecules, which are the basis of all plant life, from which all life on earth would evolve, were already forming in the toxic pools of inorganic substances, even before the process of nuclear fusion caused the condensing cloud to become the sun that we see today. Comprehenda?

 

[S-word]

No, certain facts such as geology put those people who believe in a young creation in their place.

Which geologic facts are you assuming proves them wrong? You who hold no view yourself as to the age of the universe as proven by the Big Bang, which is the best model of the initial conditions and subsequent development of the universe, that is supported by the most comprehensive and accurate explanations from current scientific evidence and observation; and yes, I have Googled this up for you.

The term ‘Big Bang,’ refers to the idea that the Universe has expanded from a primordial infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small condition at some finite time in the past, and the best measurements in 2009 suggest that the initial conditions occurred around 13.9 billion years ago, and continues to expand today.

Knowing that you are not one for making assumptions with no base, I hope that you have not stated anywhere in this thread, or some other, that the universe, in which this earth is estimated to be about 4.54 billion years old, is itself, about 13.9 billion years old, cos if you have, a little dicky bird will tell me all about it matey.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

And so, according to you, those who believe the universe was created some few thousand years ago, have as much claim to the truth as those who accept the Big Bang theory and would argue that this universe, is some 13.75 billion years old. Am I correct?

There's absolutely no way for anyone to show ANY evidence the universe came into being a few thousand years ago. This has been covered on the previous page. So NO...those who claim a (young universe) are in error.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Knowing that you are not one for making assumptions with no base, I hope that you have not stated anywhere in this thread, or some other, that the universe, in which this earth is estimated to be about 4.54 billion years old, is itself, about 13.9 billion years old, cos if you have, a little dicky bird will tell me all about it matey.

Question....given what you say you accept about the universe are you arguing for a young or a ("13 billion year old universe")...?

If you accept a 13 billion year old universe are you then arguing for a young Earth or one that has shown to be 4.54 billion years old?

Just trying to figure out where you stand on this issue...

 

[JustWondering2]

Question....given what you say you accept about the universe are you arguing for a young or a ("13 billion year old universe")...?

If you accept a 13 billion year old universe are you then arguing for a young Earth or one that has shown to be 4.54 billion years old?

Just trying to figure out where you stand on this issue...

Wow I thought it was just me that was confused about his stand. I feel better now.

 

[S-word]

Question....given what you say you accept about the universe are you arguing for a young or a ("13 billion year old universe")...?

If you accept a 13 billion year old universe are you then arguing for a young Earth or one that has shown to be 4.54 billion years old?

Just trying to figure out where you stand on this issue...

If you had taken the time to go back to the source of this particular section in the debate, you would have seen that my response #247, to the post sent in by URAVIP2ME, as viewed here,

Correct! This universal body, which is the seventh generation of the heavens and the earth, is only 13.7 billion years old. But this, the seventh generation of the universe, will roll up as a scroll with a great hissing noise and the universal elements will burn up and fall as massive columns of fire into the Great Abyss/Black Hole, from which it originated. It is the eighth eternal heaven of light, that God created to be the first after his works, in which there in neither years, months, weeks, days, or hours, for all time shall be stuck together in one aeon, and there is no close to the eighth Cosmic day in which, the previous seven generations of the universe revolve eternally.

Shows that I not only believe that this Universal body, in which the 4.5 billion year old earth was formed, is somewhere between 13.3 to 13.9 billion years old, but that I also believe that this is, but one of many universal bodies in an eternal cyclic universe that exists within an eternal and boundless cosmos.

Then you decided to jump into this particular section of the debate after the response to my previous post # 247 by some brash “Bible believer” basher.

Darkendless 248 I love how easily bible bashers can translate 6 creative days into 13.7 bllion years. Absolutely priceless.

Which was followed by this, my response in Post #249.

I believe in the views of many scientists, that this universe was created from the big Bang, which spatially separated the infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity, which was a previous universe that had fallen into the Great abyss from which it originated, and that this Galactic cluster/universe is falling in toward one of the many Super duper Black Hole scattered throughout the eternal and boundless cosmos.

I believe as do the Buddhists, that Universe after universe is like an interminable succession of wheels forever coming into view, forever rolling onwards, disappearing and reappearing; forever passing from being to non being, and again from non being to being. In short, the constant revolving of the wheel of life in one eternal cycle, according to fixed and immutable laws, is perhaps after all the sum and substance of the philosophy of Buddhism. And this eternal wheel has so to speak, six spokes representing six forms of existence.” ---- Mon. Williams, Buddhism, pp. 229, 122.

I believe that the nights and days of Brahma are called Manvantara or the cycle of manifestation, ‘The Great Day,’ which is a period of universal activity, that is preceded, and also followed by ‘Pralaya,’ a dark period, which to our finite minds seems as an eternity. ‘Manvantara,’ is a creative day as seen in the six days of creation in Genesis, ‘Pralaya,’ is the evening that proceeds the next creative day. The six periods of Creation and the seventh day of rest in which we now exist are referred to in the book of Genesis as the generations of the universe.

I believe that the English word “Generation,” is translated from the Hebrew “toledoth” which is used in the Old Testament in every instance as ‘births,’ or ‘descendants,’ such as “These are the generations of Adam,” or “these are the generations of Abraham, and Genesis 2: 4; These are the generations of the Universe or heavens and earth, etc. And the ‘Great Day’ in which the seven generations of the universe are eternally repeated, is the eternal cosmic period of the eighth eternal day in which those who attain to perfection are allowed to enter, where they shall be surrounded by great light and they shall experience eternal peace, while those who do not attain to perfection are cast back into the refining fires of the seven physical cycles that perpetually revolve as the seventh generation, in which the previous six are repeated with each resurrection of the seventh, within the eighth eternal cosmic cycle.

I believe, as did Origen, who was a Christian writer and teacher who lived between the years of 185 and 254 AD. Among his many works is the Hexapla, which is his interpretation of the Old Testament texts. Origen holds to a series of worlds following one upon the other,-- each world rising a step higher than the previous world, so that every later world brings to ripeness the seeds that were imbedded in the former, and itself then prepares the seed for the universe that will follow it.
But I wont lose any sleep just because you cannot agree with this.

And now perhaps you may have some small understanding of my view as to the age of the earth in this particular generation of the eternal cyclic universe.