All Bathrooms Gender Neutral: Good Idea or Bad Idea?

[Willamena]

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The Blog from Another Dimension » Back to the Land of Civilized Toilets

 

[brokensymmetry]

I just don't think that some people understand that we do not live in a perfect world but that we live in a world that is not only full of sin and imperfection but a world that is sinful and imperfect. They just do not want to face that reality.

We live in a imperfect world.

Why would a unisex bathroom put women at risk, exactly, in a way that they aren't at risk otherwise? I don't get it. How does excretion in a stall make you more vulnerable to attack or something than being in a private office with some guy?

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Why would a unisex bathroom put women at risk, exactly, in a way that they aren't at risk otherwise? I don't get it. How does excretion in a stall make you more vulnerable to attack or something than being in a private office with some guy?

So because they are at risk anyway makes it ok to make it more riskier? In what kind of world does that make sense?

I am going to try to explain how this world works. This world is not a rational place, people are not reasonable, some of those unreasonable people are sociopaths, sociopaths like hurting people. These are just basic facts of life. We live in a world where people predate other people. It is that simple. Why the hell do you want to make it easier?

 

[brokensymmetry]

So because they are at risk anyway makes it ok to make it more riskier? In what kind of world does that make sense?

I am going to try to explain how this world works. This world is not a rational place, people are not reasonable, some of those unreasonable people are sociopaths, sociopaths like hurting people. These are just basic facts of life. We live in a world where people predate other people. It is that simple. Why the hell do you want to make it easier?

How is sharing a public bathroom *riskier* than any other situation anywhere else? This is what I don't get! In all the pages here I have yet to see any reason to think that having a unisex bathroom would put anyone at anymore risk than they otherwise face. If there is such a problem with psychos hurting people everywhere, and bathrooms are especially a problem, why allow boys to share the same bathrooms as grown men?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

So, people are not advocating the use of urinals in these unisex public restrooms then?

If not, then wait times for the bathroom will be longer for everyone, since urinals take up less real estate than full stalls, so there will be less toilets per person overall.

Also, I hope women are okay with pee-covered toilet seats, since men are not going to sit down every time they need to pee, and a certain percentage of men seem to be unable to avoid hitting the toilet seat.

So, if you're okay with longer wait times, pee-covered toilet seats, or having girls and women walk past rows of men peeing at urinals, then I suppose it could work.

 

[brokensymmetry]

So, people are not advocating the use of urinals in these unisex public restrooms then?

If not, then wait times for the bathroom will be longer for everyone, since urinals take up less real estate than full stalls, so there will be less toilets per person overall.

Also, I hope women are okay with pee-covered toilet seats, since men are not going to sit down every time they need to pee, and a certain percentage of men seem to be unable to avoid hitting the toilet seat.

So, if you're okay with longer wait times, pee-covered toilet seats, or having girls and women walk past rows of men peeing at urinals, then I suppose it could work.

If you are actually designing a bathroom space that you know will be unisex I am sure you could have urinals in there such that they are somewhat private. Why is it cool that men 'get to' sit on pee stained toilet seats but when we contemplate that women do it suddenly everyone is concerned?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

If you are actually designing a bathroom space that you know will be unisex I am sure you could have urinals in there such that they are somewhat private. Why is it cool that men 'get to' sit on pee stained toilet seats but when we contemplate that women do it suddenly everyone is concerned?

I'm not saying it's okay. I'm saying that I hope women advocating for unisex bathrooms have considered the reality of pee-covered toilet seats. If they're okay with that, more power to them.

 

[brokensymmetry]

I'm not saying it's okay. I'm saying that I hope women advocating for unisex bathrooms have considered the reality of pee-covered toilet seats. If they're okay with that, more power to them.

Alright. If I were a woman I think I'd advocate for it just because when I looked up the history of this, the way it started was out of paternalistic concern for women in the workplace. I might find that insulting. But who can say. I have strong reactions against people telling me what to do, especially if they tell me it's all for my own good.

 

[4consideration]

Why would a unisex bathroom put women at risk, exactly, in a way that they aren't at risk otherwise? I don't get it. How does excretion in a stall make you more vulnerable to attack or something than being in a private office with some guy?

Usually when most women walk around, or are in an office, then don't have their pants pulled down -- at least not where I live.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Alright. If I were a woman I think I'd advocate for it just because when I looked up the history of this, the way it started was out of paternalistic concern for women in the workplace. I might find that insulting. But who can say. I have strong reactions against people telling me what to do, especially if they tell me it's all for my own good.

I'm pretty sure more women would be concerned with pee-covered toilet seats than they would about some historical context for separate bathrooms. Then again, there are always some overly-sensitive, tightly-wound individuals who always need to find insults and offenses to overreact to in their endless fight for truth and justice.

 

[brokensymmetry]

Usually went most women walk around, or are in an office, then don't have their pants pulled down -- at least not where I live.

So you go into a stall, and pull down your pants. It's not as if you are advertising yourself to the world in that situation. I don't see how that is any more intimate than having a face to face meeting with someone in a private space.

 

[brokensymmetry]

I'm pretty sure more women would be concerned with pee-covered toilet seats than they would about some historical context for separate bathrooms. Then again, there are always some overly-sensitive, tightly-wound individuals who always need to find insults and offenses to overreact to in their endless fight for truth and justice.

Well, that I can't say. What if it is the case that women's bathrooms tend to busier and tend to have more lines than the men's bathroom (I am not sure, this is a hypothetical). Then it seems to me you could argue there is a pragmatic reason also to desire unification, or at least open up bathrooms to everyone, or something. The rigid male vs female bathroom thing just strikes me as odd and arbitrary, and the reasons given to maintain it seem pretty flimsy. Poor women facing pee on a toilet seat?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Well, that I can't say. What if it is the case that women's bathrooms tend to busier and tend to have more lines than the men's bathroom (I am not sure, this is a hypothetical). Then it seems to me you could argue there is a pragmatic reason also to desire unification, or at least open up bathrooms to everyone, or something.

You could also argue that less toilet-units per person means slower wait times for all. But, let's not let mathematics get in the way.

The rigid male vs female bathroom thing just strikes me as odd and arbitrary, and the reasons given to maintain it seem pretty flimsy. Poor women facing pee on a toilet seat?

Well, why don't you ask women whether or not they'd like combined bathrooms if it means more pee-covered toilet seats? I can't decide for women whether it's an important factor or not.

Regardless, I've yet to see anyone present an argument as to why making unisex bathrooms is a good idea, or what benefits it would provide. It seems to me to be an oddly arbitrary concept to make a stand about. I guess it comes down to first-world, white people problems.

 

[4consideration]

So you go into a stall, and pull down your pants. It's not as if you are advertising yourself to the world in that situation. I don't see how that is any more intimate than having a face to face meeting with someone in a private space.

I've had a number of occasions in the ladies room where a small child that was in the same stall with a gown woman has peeked, or crawled, under the partition to see me perched upon the throne in all my regal glory (or worse yet, hovering, where there's visible exposure.) In those cases -- it's surprising and embarrassing -- but only just the rather benign antics of a curious young child.

In most highly public bathroom stall situations there is enough room for a grown person to crawl under, or because of close design for space, the walls of the stalls are close enough that an adult could stand on the toilet (or other hardware, like a handrail) and look over. I find that unsettling. I don't like that thought.

Of course designs could be made otherwise, but I'm just going from what I have experienced in real life.

I'll give you an additional example of why I wouldn't favor ALL bathrooms being unisex that I haven't seen mentioned yet.

There is no office situation that I can think of that the man in the office would be aware that I am at this moment handling "feminine business" because of the tearing/rustle of paper on feminine products that makes it obvious to the person in the stall next to you that is what is happening. That's just a privacy thing, not a danger -- but still, it's a big part of female bathroom stuff.

 

[ChristineES]

So, people are not advocating the use of urinals in these unisex public restrooms then?

If not, then wait times for the bathroom will be longer for everyone, since urinals take up less real estate than full stalls, so there will be less toilets per person overall.

Also, I hope women are okay with pee-covered toilet seats, since men are not going to sit down every time they need to pee, and a certain percentage of men seem to be unable to avoid hitting the toilet seat.

So, if you're okay with longer wait times, pee-covered toilet seats, or having girls and women walk past rows of men peeing at urinals, then I suppose it could work.

Urinals did enter my mind.

When I was in the Navy, my shop had to clean the men's restroom and it was a lot more dirty than the females' restroom (Sorry, men, that was my observation). Women take a lot longer since, it appears, that it is faster to urinate when you can stand up to do it. I am not sure what kind of major problem that would bring and urinals (I don't want to see any man's business that isn't my husband's, sorry).

 

[brokensymmetry]

You could also argue that less toilet-units per person means slower wait times for all. But, let's not let mathematics get in the way.



Well, why don't you ask women whether or not they'd like combined bathrooms if it means more pee-covered toilet seats? I can't decide for women whether it's an important factor or not.

Regardless, I've yet to see anyone present an argument as to why making unisex bathrooms is a good idea, or what benefits it would provide. It seems to me to be an oddly arbitrary concept to make a stand about. I guess it comes down to first-world, white people problems.

There wouldn't necessarily be less toilets per person. Without needing to make 2 separate rooms you could potentially maximize the space better with more toilets.

As to the last thing, I assume that people who participate in the thread are interested in the question, for whatever reason. Saying we shouldn't give a crap and we are all spoiled and decadent for discussing it is BS.

What comes down to for me is, suppose I build something, a store or restaurant. I want to put in a unisex bathroom. I actually *can't* do that, and that is also BS. IT's one thing if people just do this based on social convention, but it's *legally enforced*, and there is no good reason for it whatsoever.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

There wouldn't necessarily be less toilets per person. Without needing to make 2 separate rooms you could potentially maximize the space better with more toilets.

As to the last thing, I assume that people who participate in the thread are interested in the question, for whatever reason. Saying we shouldn't give a crap and we are all spoiled and decadent for discussing it is BS.

What comes down to for me is, suppose I build something, a store or restaurant. I want to put in a unisex bathroom. I actually *can't* do that, and that is also BS. IT's one thing if people just do this based on social convention, but it's *legally enforced*, and there is no good reason for it whatsoever.

Yeah, I don't find your arbitrary desire to build a unisex bathroom in a hypothetical store or restaurant to be a very compelling argument as to why unisex bathrooms are better, preferable, or beneficial.

 

[brokensymmetry]

Yeah, I don't find your arbitrary desire to build a unisex bathroom in a hypothetical store or restaurant to be a very compelling argument as to why unisex bathrooms are better, preferable, or beneficial.

How about merely *allowed*?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

How about merely *allowed*?

I've seen unisex bathrooms at colleges, in clubs, and various other places (particularly when space was an issue). Is there some reason you think they are not legal?

 

[ChristineES]

I've seen unisex restrooms in hospitals and a couple of restaurants, but they are single- one toilet and only one person at a time.