Alone forever

[Riverwolf]

even so....

God would be the ultimate ET.
He is not of this world.

Then I have no business with him.

 

[Riverwolf]

And the perspective that good or evil exist only in the human mind does not make sense to me.


The eyes of the Lord are in every place, Keeping watch on the evil and the good.Proverbs 15:3


But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. Hebrews 5:14

It's what I observe in nature. In nature, there is no good or evil.

Nature is the default; we've since moved away from it.

Even in the Bible, this is well-represented in the Adam and Eve story: naked and not ashamed until they ate from the fruit of the knowledge of good and bad; i.e., fell out of the garden of nature and into the hell of civilization where morality is a necessity for survival.

 

[Thief]

Then I have no business with him.

I believe we are intended to survive the last breath.....though no guarantee.

If we do so...then God and heaven will come around to see what stands up from the dust.

If you have no business with God and heaven.....
Then being alone could be a real possibility.

You can't get out of your body now....even as you say or do as you will....
I see no cause to think you will gain the ability in the hour of your last breath....
Unless you are making intention of doing so.

Eternal darkness is physically real.
If you follow your body into the box and then into the grave....
Alone forever becomes a seriously real likelihood.

 

[fantome profane]

I believe we are intended to survive the last breath.....though no guarantee.

If we do so...then God and heaven will come around to see what stands up from the dust.

If you have no business with God and heaven.....
Then being alone could be a real possibility.

You can't get out of your body now....even as you say or do as you will....
I see to cause to think you will gain the ability in the hour of your last breath....
Unless you are making intention of doing so.

Eternal darkness is physically real.
If you follow your body into the box and then into the grave....
Alone forever becomes a seriously real likelihood.

The way you describe it, it doesn't sound too bad.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

Can anyone imagine or would anyone want to be completely alone for eternity?



I believe the scriptures indicate that separation from God is the eternal destiny of anyone who refuses to admit or give up sin and according to the scriptures everyone is guilty of sin. Various descriptions are used to portray what the condition of separation will be like, such as; outer darkness, weeping and gnashing of teeth or burning fire. The Bible also says God is Love. He is the source of love and without His presence I believe love is nonexistent. So my understanding is that being separated from God and His love will also mean being separated from everyone else because love which now connects people together would no longer be active in the state of being separated from God.

I don't know, have you ever heard the term misery loves company?
There may be some really bitter people out there in outer darkness who do not love each other, but that does not mean that they will never fight with each other in a, "Yeah, well you are stupid" kind of a way.

 

[Riverwolf]

I believe we are intended to survive the last breath.....though no guarantee.

If we do so...then God and heaven will come around to see what stands up from the dust.

If you have no business with God and heaven.....
Then being alone could be a real possibility.

You can't get out of your body now....even as you say or do as you will....
I see no cause to think you will gain the ability in the hour of your last breath....
Unless you are making intention of doing so.

Eternal darkness is physically real.
If you follow your body into the box and then into the grave....
Alone forever becomes a seriously real likelihood.

And a lack of awareness of it, so it won't bother me at all; heck, there may not even be a "me" to be bothered.

'Sides, I intend to be cremated and have my ashes scattered in a river, ocean, forest, or somewhere.

If you want to speak spiritually, then I'll probably just hang in the halls of Hel. There's good food, good company, and I won't have to worry about the effects of Ragnarok.

 

[InChrist]

It's what I observe in nature. In nature, there is no good or evil.

Nature is the default; we've since moved away from it.

Even in the Bible, this is well-represented in the Adam and Eve story: naked and not ashamed until they ate from the fruit of the knowledge of good and bad; i.e., fell out of the garden of nature and into the hell of civilization where morality is a necessity for survival.

What exactly do you mean there is no good and evil in nature and we have moved away from it?

And what do you mean by this..."fell out of the garden of nature and into the hell of civilization where morality is a necessity for survival"?

 

[Riverwolf]

What exactly do you mean there is no good and evil in nature and we have moved away from it?

In nature, there is only survival. Nothing else.

And what do you mean by this..."fell out of the garden of nature and into the hell of civilization where morality is a necessity for survival"?

It's been said that one of the things the Adam and Eve story (and other "fall from grace" stories) is trying to say is that before, when we were naked and not ashamed, that's the millenia of human history when we were living as hunter-gatherers. Then the fall came with the agricultural revolution, ushering in civilization with its good and evil.

 

[InChrist]

In nature, there is only survival. Nothing else.



It's been said that one of the things the Adam and Eve story (and other "fall from grace" stories) is trying to say is that before, when we were naked and not ashamed, that's the millenia of human history when we were living as hunter-gatherers. Then the fall came with the agricultural revolution, ushering in civilization with its good and evil.

Thank you for clarifying what you meant. I think it helps me understand your perspective a little better.


One thing, though, which the creation account also reveals, besides Adam and Eve being naked and unashamed, is that “nature “was originally peaceful. It doesn’t indicate that people were hunters at first. The creation which God initially called “good” was one in which animals and humans lived peacefully with one another, but human sin introduced evil and death into this good and peaceful environment. Prophetic scriptures indicate that when sin is dealt with by God in the last days the world, including all nature, will again be peaceful to the point where the wolf will lay down with the lamb. (Isaiah 11)


So it seems to me that it was human sinfulness which ushered evil into what was already defined as good by God.

 

[Riverwolf]

Thank you for clarifying what you meant. I think it helps me understand your perspective a little better.


One thing, though, which the creation account also reveals, besides Adam and Eve being naked and unashamed, is that “nature “was originally peaceful. It doesn’t indicate that people were hunters at first. The creation which God initially called “good” was one in which animals and humans lived peacefully with one another, but human sin introduced evil and death into this good and peaceful environment. Prophetic scriptures indicate that when sin is dealt with by God in the last days the world, including all nature, will again be peaceful to the point where the wolf will lay down with the lamb. (Isaiah 11)


So it seems to me that it was human sinfulness which ushered evil into what was already defined as good by God.

Well, I would attribute that peacefulness as the storytellers comparing the difficult times they were going through with the "good old days", as we often pine for to this day.

In all mythologies, the world used to be a better place until the "fall."

Besides, I'm going based on the story in a vacuum, not in conjunction with other books in the Bible, and absolutely not as a history.

 

[InChrist]

Well, I would attribute that peacefulness as the storytellers comparing the difficult times they were going through with the "good old days", as we often pine for to this day.

In all mythologies, the world used to be a better place until the "fall."

Besides, I'm going based on the story in a vacuum, not in conjunction with other books in the Bible, and absolutely not as a history.

I don't know what else to say since our worldviews are based on different foundations. Yours seems to be based on nature (you may correct me if I am wrong or elaborate on your views) and mine is based on what I believe are the truths about God the Creator, the condition of humanity, the history of the earth, and the eternal state as revealed by God in the biblical scriptures.

 

[Riverwolf]

I don't what else to say since our worldviews are based on different foundations. Yours seems to be based on nature (you may correct me if I am wrong or elaborate on your views) and mine is based on what I believe are the truths about God the Creator, the condition of humanity, the history of the earth, and the eternal state as revealed by God in the biblical scriptures.

Mine is based on observation, experience, elder wisdom, meditative insights, etc. As I've been spoiled by the luxuries of civilization, my view can only peripherally be based on nature.

For me, the Biblical scriptures simply represent eastern Mediterranean mythology, philosophy, and culture through several eyes.

'Sides, I recently observed that the true greatness of the Scriptures begin to shine through after removing God as the author and the notion that it's literal history.

 

[InChrist]

Mine is based on observation, experience, elder wisdom, meditative insights, etc. As I've been spoiled by the luxuries of civilization, my view can only peripherally be based on nature.

For me, the Biblical scriptures simply represent eastern Mediterranean mythology, philosophy, and culture through several eyes.

'Sides, I recently observed that the true greatness of the Scriptures begin to shine through after removing God as the author and the notion that it's literal history.

And how did you observe that true greatness of the scriptures shines through by removing God as the author and discounting it as literal history?

 

[Riverwolf]

And how did you observe that true greatness of the scriptures shines through by removing God as the author and discounting it as literal history?

After doing that, their literary value and lessons about culture, comparative mythology, and true depth begin to appear.

I began to realize that the Adam and Eve story, as an example, is one of the deepest of the old stories. There are infinitesimal ways of looking at it and applying it into one's own life. It's a coming of age story, a story about the transition between hunter-gatherer lifestyle to the agricultural revolution, a story of puberty, rebellion, responsibility, etc.

 

[InChrist]

After doing that, their literary value and lessons about culture, comparative mythology, and true depth begin to appear.

I began to realize that the Adam and Eve story, as an example, is one of the deepest of the old stories. There are infinitesimal ways of looking at it and applying it into one's own life. It's a coming of age story, a story about the transition between hunter-gatherer lifestyle to the agricultural revolution, a story of puberty, rebellion, responsibility, etc.

And how can you know that your perspective is accurate and not just your own ideas? Are you sure that the scriptures are not God's revelation to humanity?

 

[Riverwolf]

And how can you know that your perspective is accurate and not just your own ideas?

Accuracy is the aim of science, not art or religion. They are absolutely my own ideas, but they are based on elements which are not.

Are you sure that the scriptures are not God's revelation to humanity?

No, but I've seen no indication that they are, any more than the Runes were literally revealed to mankind by Odin.

 

[InChrist]

Accuracy is the aim of science, not art or religion. They are absolutely my own ideas, but they are based on elements which are not.

Eternity is a long time. If there is any possibility that one's eternal destiny is impacted by their spiritual beliefs, then accuracy it seems to me would be essential.

No, but I've seen no indication that they are, any more than the Runes were literally revealed to mankind by Odin.

[/quote]

Except that the revelation of the biblical scriptures occurred in the context of real history and they are unique in that they foretell future events with 100% accuracy.

 

[Thief]

Mine is based on observation, experience, elder wisdom, meditative insights, etc. As I've been spoiled by the luxuries of civilization, my view can only peripherally be based on nature.

For me, the Biblical scriptures simply represent eastern Mediterranean mythology, philosophy, and culture through several eyes.

'Sides, I recently observed that the true greatness of the Scriptures begin to shine through after removing God as the author and the notion that it's literal history.

Ok....I agree for the most part.
But you are responding to nature.
Your first line IS your nature.

 

[Riverwolf]

Eternity is a long time. If there is any possibility that one's eternal destiny is impacted by their spiritual beliefs, then accuracy it seems to me would be essential.

Sure if it does, which I've seen no indication of.

Except that the revelation of the biblical scriptures occurred in the context of real history and they are unique in that they foretell future events with 100% accuracy.

Not any more than Runes, which have a historical "revelatory point", and I've never seen any decent demonstration of that the Biblical prophecies are any more accurate than the ones that have constantly been wrong these days.

'Sides, pagan oracles could predict the future, too. Who's to say, then, that those prophecies aren't demonic revelations?

 

[Riverwolf]

Ok....I agree for the most part.
But you are responding to nature.
Your first line IS your nature.

...remember Led Zeppelin?

'Cause you know sometimes words have two meanings.