American Muslim women protest gender apartheid at mosque.

[.lava]

I take it you oppose their efforts?
You do realize they would say they're the ones following Islam, and you're the one who should go your own way if you reject it?

i don't understand their efforts. what do they want exactly? we are all imperfect and weak creatures before God and some people still fighting over who's superior. that is pathetic. instead of fighting their egos to be closer to God, they spend their energy to prove something else to other people. they can do as they wish. they can claim as they wish. result is not going to change

.

 

[Smoke]

i don't understand their efforts. what do they want exactly? we are all imperfect and weak creatures before God and some people still fighting over who's superior. that is pathetic. instead of fighting their egos to be closer to God, they spend their energy to prove something else to other people.

Isn't that equally true of those who opposed them and called the police on them?

 

[.lava]

I will ignore your ignorance and denial of Science for now (Yes, you deny evolution you deny Science) and heartily Agree with you on this post.

You need to know some things about Americans and the U.S as a whole to truly understand the actions of the people.

1. The Average american truly believes they do "good" when they bomb and kill muslims in other nations, They TRULY think that this is something good and that we make the world a better place.

2. American woman are appalled at how the "muslim woman" are treated, our culture says woman can do the same as us (and should) at the same time as, obviously, they do not, as there is a difference between men and woman, but any culture different from our own is Wrong(tm), substitute Muslim for Japanese or Chinese, they will same the same, there is only one Way, that is OUR WAY all others are inferior.

3. We think it is horrible that muslims bomb and kill people but we think (the average) that it is not only OK, but good that We kill people on a massive scale ourselfs, once again, We are the Best, what we do is Good.


If you combine this thinking, which stems from poor education, xenophobia and various other things, you get a pretty bad picture, but that is how We as a Nation Are. When I was in my teens I was just as any American you would meet, I thought we where the Best because my parents told me that, the news told me that and our all movies, culture and music told us that.. And then I travelled and saw the real world...

Between my 20s to 30s I almost soley travelled from country to country, lived in some whiles "living as a tourist" in some, I saw cultures so different from mine whiles seeing cultures so superior that I couldn't believe it, around mid 35 I had decided to make the world a better place, make people get access to proper education, hospitals and the real world, it was my firm "belief" that with education and knowledge of the world, they would never become like us, xenophobix, ignorant and hateful. I grew to despise my own "people" because of their ignorance, meeting a fellow American in Thailand I couldn't stop myself from looking at him as a most-likely-to-be pedophile being there to buy a young boy or (if hetereosxual) thai girl, not fair?, sure, but seeing a Big Fat smelling American on the street of Bali ARGUING over the price (she wanted 10$ he wanted to pay 2$) you lose faith in humanity.

Your religious book will take you the wrong way, start respecting people for what they are instead of doing what you "think" you should do, LOOK at what is needed, this is how we got Vaccines, Computers and iPods... Your book will take you back, not forward and my own Nation wants to take the way you want, a Holy Book written by ignorant shepers thousands of years ago.

Think about it.

yes, i am ignorant yet not in the way your angle catches. but thank you. thank you for reply. i don't picture American people as you do. i've met Americans, i had very close friends for long years. i loved them. i see no difference between societies except for culture, language and religion. we have the same emotions, same reactions and same hopes. some poor people who ignore that common ground that each human being has simply by being human would take these differencies as their reasons to be enemies and to hate each other. they shall rest in the shadow that's hidden under my feet. nobody needs them. whatever divides people today except for imaginary borders of nations, i am even ready from yesterday to embrace as different colours of amazing picture because i love diversity and if this is what's ignorance to you, then i am sorry that i can't make you happy. i am not willing to give up on my path that taught me to love people, to love creatures and to treat them with good manners. the rest is not my problem

.

 

[.lava]

Isn't that equally true of those who opposed them and called the police on them?

i don't understand what you mean by "equally true". would you explain?

.

 

[Autodidact]

yes, i am ignorant yet not in the way your angle catches. but thank you. thank you for reply. i don't picture American people as you do. i've met Americans, i had very close friends for long years. i loved them. i see no difference between societies except for culture, language and religion. we have the same emotions, same reactions and same hopes. some poor people who ignore that common ground that each human being has simply by being human would take these differencies as their reasons to be enemies and to hate each other. they shall rest in the shadow that's hidden under my feet. nobody needs them. whatever divides people today except for imaginary borders of nations, i am even ready from yesterday to embrace as different colours of amazing picture because i love diversity and if this is what's ignorance to you, then i am sorry that i can't make you happy. i am not willing to give up on my path that taught me to love people, to love creatures and to treat them with good manners. the rest is not my problem

.

Quoted instead of fruballing.

 

[Smoke]

i don't understand what you mean by "equally true". would you explain?

You said of the protesters: "i don't understand their efforts. what do they want exactly? we are all imperfect and weak creatures before God and some people still fighting over who's superior. that is pathetic. instead of fighting their egos to be closer to God, they spend their energy to prove something else to other people."

Wouldn't it be equally true to say of the people who oppose them? Aren't the people who insist on telling women, "No, you can't pray here" still fighting over whose superior and spending their energy to prove something to other people, instead of spending their time and energy fighting their egos to be closer to God?

What I mean is, if this fight is an unworthy fight and a distraction from the things that are really important, it seems to me that the people fighting on either side of it are equally wrong.

 

[aymen amir]

I will ignore your ignorance and denial of Science for now (Yes, you deny evolution you deny Science) and heartily Agree with you on this post.

You need to know some things about Americans and the U.S as a whole to truly understand the actions of the people.

1. The Average american truly believes they do "good" when they bomb and kill muslims in other nations, They TRULY think that this is something good and that we make the world a better place.

2. American woman are appalled at how the "muslim woman" are treated, our culture says woman can do the same as us (and should) at the same time as, obviously, they do not, as there is a difference between men and woman, but any culture different from our own is Wrong(tm), substitute Muslim for Japanese or Chinese, they will same the same, there is only one Way, that is OUR WAY all others are inferior.

3. We think it is horrible that muslims bomb and kill people but we think (the average) that it is not only OK, but good that We kill people on a massive scale ourselfs, once again, We are the Best, what we do is Good.


If you combine this thinking, which stems from poor education, xenophobia and various other things, you get a pretty bad picture, but that is how We as a Nation Are. When I was in my teens I was just as any American you would meet, I thought we where the Best because my parents told me that, the news told me that and our all movies, culture and music told us that.. And then I travelled and saw the real world...

Between my 20s to 30s I almost soley travelled from country to country, lived in some whiles "living as a tourist" in some, I saw cultures so different from mine whiles seeing cultures so superior that I couldn't believe it, around mid 35 I had decided to make the world a better place, make people get access to proper education, hospitals and the real world, it was my firm "belief" that with education and knowledge of the world, they would never become like us, xenophobix, ignorant and hateful. I grew to despise my own "people" because of their ignorance, meeting a fellow American in Thailand I couldn't stop myself from looking at him as a most-likely-to-be pedophile being there to buy a young boy or (if hetereosxual) thai girl, not fair?, sure, but seeing a Big Fat smelling American on the street of Bali ARGUING over the price (she wanted 10$ he wanted to pay 2$) you lose faith in humanity.

Your religious book will take you the wrong way, start respecting people for what they are instead of doing what you "think" you should do, LOOK at what is needed, this is how we got Vaccines, Computers and iPods... Your book will take you back, not forward and my own Nation wants to take the way you want, a Holy Book written by ignorant shepers thousands of years ago.

Think about it.

Gabe...

ALL what you mentioned about treating people with humanity and all of that is true ... see my friend your problem is that you think you got it all figured out just because you did some travelling ..and am impressed that you think you know every thing !! you mentioned that your nation is ignorant and all of that , that's 1000% true , but that's only because you took GOD and religion out of the equation and you are paying for that .... your nation sucks because you live with out morals

FACTS ABOUT THE US
every 1 hour 106 babies are aborted in the whom
every seven seconds a women is rapped
about 2.8 million prostitutes in the US
every single day 350 kids are snatched of the street to be use for children prostitution
every day 357 people shoot their self

and you GOT the Audacity to speak of Muslims
this book you call a Holy Book written by ignorant shepers thousands of years ago. asks people to have morals respect each other .. treat each other with no racial discrimination and to have mercy upon each other respect the elders and care for the little onez Feed the poor .....this book is the only solution for the problems in the west so please be4 you start throwing insults get some knowledge about what your speaking about and don't judge ISLAM BY it followers grape your self a copy of the QURAN AND read 4 you self :sarcastic

 

[.lava]

You said of the protesters: "i don't understand their efforts. what do they want exactly? we are all imperfect and weak creatures before God and some people still fighting over who's superior. that is pathetic. instead of fighting their egos to be closer to God, they spend their energy to prove something else to other people."

Wouldn't it be equally true to say of the people who oppose them? Aren't the people who insist on telling women, "No, you can't pray here" still fighting over whose superior and spending their energy to prove something to other people, instead of spending their time and energy fighting their egos to be closer to God?

What I mean is, if this fight is an unworthy fight and a distraction from the things that are really important, it seems to me that the people fighting on either side of it are equally wrong.

i don't know, maybe. from what i understand, women seem to be the ones who turn a place that should be used for performing salaats in silence and with respect into a some debate area. i don't think they have right to violate right of others who went to that mosque to pray together. as i said before, IMO intention of these women is not performing salaat. because before God noone is superior. both gender remains separated. men are not free to stand wherever they want either. if this separation make some women feel they are inferior, maybe there is something within themselves to be cured. i would not feel inferior even if i stand on the last line before God because what makes me closer to God is in my heart, not where i stand. on the other hand i am not witness of the incident. i don't know if they were asked to remain with other women kindly or not. in my relationship with other Muslims (people who teach me and other students like me) i'd never seen any behavior when one oppress the other. i'd never experience such a disgrace among people i know. we put aside personal issues, personal desires and show respect to God. also we are not adviced the same thing over and over again. free will is respected. though that is not to say, we act rebellion and do things that disturb others. we respect others and we don't try to abuse it. i don't know if you understand what i mean. i can not know what kind of men are there and why they had to deal with such an issue. there must be something for them to learn

.

 

[Autodidact]

Gabe...

FACTS ABOUT THE US
every 1 hour 106 babies are aborted in the whom
every seven seconds a women is rapped
about 2.8 million prostitutes in the US
every single day 350 kids are snatched of the street to be use for children prostitution
every day 357 people shoot their self

Baloney. These are made-up lies--no foundation in reality. Doesn't your religion condemn telling lies about other people?

Secondly, if I were you I wouldn't start with this kind of stuff, or people will be saying things like, "At least we don't flog the rape victims," or "At least people only kill themselves, not a bunch of other people at the same time."

and you GOT the Audacity to speak of Muslims
this book you call a Holy Book written by ignorant shepers thousands of years ago. asks people to have morals respect each other .. treat each other with no racial discrimination and to have mercy upon each other respect the elders and care for the little onez Feed the poor .....this book is the only solution for the problems in the west so please be4 you start throwing insults get some knowledge about what your speaking about and don't judge ISLAM BY it followers grape your self a copy of the QURAN AND read 4 you self :sarcastic

Don't appreciate the preaching. I have to tell you, if you're going to convince us that following a book that leads people to do the sorts of things Muslims are doing, like rioting against innocent Christians, depriving women of equal rights, death penalty for gay people, not to mention suicide bombing, you've got a tough sell. There's a reason Muslim countries are among the poorest in the world.

 

[Kerr]

Gabe...

ALL what you mentioned about treating people with humanity and all of that is true ... see my friend your problem is that you think you got it all figured out just because you did some travelling ..and am impressed that you think you know every thing !! you mentioned that your nation is ignorant and all of that , that's 1000% true , but that's only because you took GOD and religion out of the equation and you are paying for that .... your nation sucks because you live with out morals

FACTS ABOUT THE US
every 1 hour 106 babies are aborted in the whom
every seven seconds a women is rapped
about 2.8 million prostitutes in the US
every single day 350 kids are snatched of the street to be use for children prostitution
every day 357 people shoot their self

and you GOT the Audacity to speak of Muslims
this book you call a Holy Book written by ignorant shepers thousands of years ago. asks people to have morals respect each other .. treat each other with no racial discrimination and to have mercy upon each other respect the elders and care for the little onez Feed the poor .....this book is the only solution for the problems in the west so please be4 you start throwing insults get some knowledge about what your speaking about and don't judge ISLAM BY it followers grape your self a copy of the QURAN AND read 4 you self :sarcastic

The west is not the US, you know. Just as the Quran is far from the only source of morality in the world.

 

[Peace]

alaykum selam we rahmatullahi teala we baraktuh sister Peace.

i think you may have missunderstood what i said. sometimes the way i write things make it hard for people to understand.

what the hadith means is that when a muslim sins, at the time of his sinning he is not a muslim. he is a sinning muslim as you have said. this is completely different to shirk. by commiting shirk one goes out of islam totally. but by a smaller sin he is not considered a muslim at that very moment that he commits his sin. after he has sinned he is a muslim again.

if the above still doesn't make sense then please be patient untill i find the hadith and will show them to you as well as to .lava.

I see what you mean now brother it was actually not clear before.
Yes if we think of what the word Muslim means (submitting to Allah), the sinful while committing the sin he is not submitting to Allah. He is actually acting against the teaching of Islam and the very essence of the meaning of the word Islam.

 

[Peace]

Of course you are right. Now you sit there with your IBM/Mac or whatever computer you use, and when you go out, forget not to take your Muslim iPhone technology (if you can afford it) when you go to McDonald's/Burger King (if you can afford it, its a expensive and luxurius place in poor Musllim nations) and enjoy the Muslim life you have with all that Muslim tecnhology...

Good luck with that.

as brother eselam said it's really a funny post.
I live in an Arab country and eating at Macdo is not expensive at all, Plus the food has really no taste. We have so many chic restaurants with great food and services and quality.

 

[Peace]

If you reject Evolution you reject science.

Nonsense. Evolution is still "a theory".

i reject the statement and what would that make me? the last of the Mohicans?

lol

 

[Gharib]

I see what you mean now brother it was actually not clear before.
Yes if we think of what the word Muslim means (submitting to Allah), the sinful while committing the sin he is not submitting to Allah. He is actually acting against the teaching of Islam and the very essence of the meaning of the word Islam.

yes that is correct. i will still try and find the hadith if Allah (swt) permits, i had no luck today.

 

[Sahar]

LOL, I've experienced that thing once....It was very funny, though!

hehe

In that mosque (where I lost my shoes ) men and women used to pray at the same hall with a curtain between them. That happened when there was a few number of women....But when the women's numbers increased, they built two floors for them, and one hall for men, you know when the number of men increases, they don't need to build any extra place as they can carpet the street and pray at it.

Yes, true.

 

[Peace]

Gabe...

this book you call a Holy Book written by ignorant shepers thousands of years ago. asks people to have morals respect each other .. treat each other with no racial discrimination and to have mercy upon each other respect the elders and care for the little onez Feed the poor .....this book is the only solution for the problems in the west so please be4 you start throwing insults get some knowledge about what your speaking about and don't judge ISLAM BY it followers grape your self a copy of the QURAN AND read 4 you self :sarcastic

:yes:
If people return back to the teaching of their religion the world won't be living in such a chaos.

 

[aymen amir]

please be4 you start throwing insults get some knowledge about what your speaking about and don't judge ISLAM BY it FOLLOWERS grape your self a copy of the QURAN AND read 4 you self

 

[MysticSang'ha]

please be4 you start throwing insults get some knowledge about what your speaking about and don't judge ISLAM BY it FOLLOWERS grape your self a copy of the QURAN AND read 4 you self

I have, and I think it's beautiful.

It's not for me, though. I find more peace and equanimity through the Buddha Dharma.

As far as the OP is concerned, I tend to side on gender equality more so than arbitrary laws and mandates such as separating the sexes because of the possibility of distractions in the mind. Our sang'ha sits and meditates all the time with both men and women sitting next to each other on the floor or on chairs (none of the sang'has that I know of separate the sexes unless they're monastic). When it comes to distractions, we see that as something to understand and to transcend rather than to run away from.

 

[aymen amir]

AUTODIDACT please don't be mad ... i got those statistics from the media

which is the same place you people got the wrong information about ISLAM
MUSLIM country are poor that's true , but we are not poor because we are following the religion of ISLAM a good example is saudi-Arabia, kwait ) they are both Muslim countries and they have one of the highest standard of living in the world

 

[Gabethewiking]

Nonsense. Evolution is still "a theory".




lol

Please tell us how it is "a theory"? I did not mentiom the Theory of Evolution, only Evolution. Please expand on your comment.