American Muslim women protest gender apartheid at mosque.

[Gabethewiking]

What about the successful Muslims who pray?!

I think you seem to misunderstand (willingly, perhaps?).

It is not about praying, but about the time and seriousness you put on your religion and relation to your dogmas, as we spoke about earlier, 5 times a day pray and so forth, is rather heavy praying and should inflict your daily life in a negative way in this financial world we live in.

And it does. As, once again, I lived in Malaysia I can tell you about the culture and it does not function the same way as in, my previous example, Indonesia, and more Traditional/Aggressive Muslim nations (following the Qu´ran more literally). This was my point. Not about some "person praying being less", no, it is about these people doing actual more work and dedicating their lives more to the real world rather then their religion.

And so this is what the Malaysians are doing (in general). As examples you can continue showing the poor area of Malaysia, and look and behold, they are more traditional and religious fundamental then the more wealthy areas of Malaysia, and this was my point, not about praying a specific amount, but about the dedication to real life, rather then the religion they been told to believe.

Malaysia and Indonesia shows this by basic facts. This is how it is, nothing else. Therefore I recommend you to visit both countries to see, and my point is, people in KL are more like Western People (secular people in your eyes) working hard to make the real world a better place, just as in New York, and in both places you have people who are More religiious wasting time on praying and taking their religion more seriously, and hence, do less in the Real World.

This was my point, but I suspect you do not want to hear it.

 

[.lava]

I think you seem to misunderstand (willingly, perhaps?).

i think not. let me put it this way...total time you give to all salaats is nearly one hour. make it 90 minutes. the rest of the day is given to us to work, to learn...etc

.

 

[Gabethewiking]

i think not. let me put it this way...total time you give to all salaats is nearly one hour. make it 90 minutes. the rest of the day is given to us to work, to learn...etc

.

It is not only about the physical activity of praying, but the mindset behind it. This life mean nothing because god is the one and only, soon you die and come to heaven and so on. This mindset would affect your performance in life, would it not?

Once again, I used EXISTING examples such as Malaysia, they are MUSLIM, just as you, but they have made a wonderful society with healthcare, education and so on, why do they make this, why do the Malay people think this is important compared to other more traditional muslim nations? See the linkage here? Please look at this objectively rather then the "My religion is right, my religion is right, my religion is right other evil they are evil they lie they lie" in your head.

I mean no disrespect, just relaying the facts of the world here.

 

[Sahar]

From Wikipedia:

Islam is central to and dominant in Malay culture. A significant number of words in the Malay vocabulary can trace their origins to Arabic which is the chosen language of Islam. This is, however, not exclusive and words from other cultures such as Portuguese, Chinese, Dutch, Sanskrit, Tamil, English, and French can also be found in the Malay language. Islam is so ingrained in Malay life that Islamic rituals are practiced as Malay culture. Muslim and Malays are interchangeable in many daily contexts.
Hari Raya Aidilfitri (Eid ul-Fitr) is an important festival celebrated by Malaysian Muslims.
Muslim women generally wear the tudung (hijab or headscarf) over their heads. However,Malay women not wearing any head gear are not reprimanded or penalised. Prominent Malaysian female examples are Datuk Seri Rafidah Aziz, International Trade and Industry Minister and Tun Dr Siti Hasmah Mohd Ali, wife of former Malaysian Prime Minister Tun Dr Mahathir bin Mohammad. However, with the influx of Arabic travellers, foreign Muslim women (Arabs) wearing hijab that leave only their eyes exposed are often spotted in tourist attractions, not the least at the shopping malls. At certain Malaysian institutions such as the International Islamic University, wearing of the tudung is mandatory; however for non-Muslim students this usually amounts to a loosely worn piece of cloth draped over the back of the head.

 

[Gabethewiking]

From Wikipedia:

Islam is central to and dominant in Malay culture. A significant number of words in the Malay vocabulary can trace their origins to Arabic which is the chosen language of Islam. This is, however, not exclusive and words from other cultures such as Portuguese, Chinese, Dutch, Sanskrit, Tamil, English, and French can also be found in the Malay language. Islam is so ingrained in Malay life that Islamic rituals are practiced as Malay culture. Muslim and Malays are interchangeable in many daily contexts.
Hari Raya Aidilfitri (Eid ul-Fitr) is an important festival celebrated by Malaysian Muslims.
Muslim women generally wear the tudung (hijab or headscarf) over their heads. However,Malay women not wearing any head gear are not reprimanded or penalised. Prominent Malaysian female examples are Datuk Seri Rafidah Aziz, International Trade and Industry Minister and Tun Dr Siti Hasmah Mohd Ali, wife of former Malaysian Prime Minister Tun Dr Mahathir bin Mohammad. However, with the influx of Arabic travellers, foreign Muslim women (Arabs) wearing hijab that leave only their eyes exposed are often spotted in tourist attractions, not the least at the shopping malls. At certain Malaysian institutions such as the International Islamic University, wearing of the tudung is mandatory; however for non-Muslim students this usually amounts to a loosely worn piece of cloth draped over the back of the head.

What has this to do with what I said?

 

[Gabethewiking]

It is clear the muslims here do not want to look at the evidence, you feel insulted by any fact shown you are wrong, so I give up.

Malaysia is my prime example, an advanced loving nation and in comparison to backwards muslims nations such as Iraq or say Egypt the people have it good. This is based on the basic facts of the world, I lived in Indonesia and Malaysia, I seen it, I been to both Egypt (with very isolated mindset I can tell you) and other more aggressive Muslim nation. All I am relaying is the statistics of the world, I seen it and I experienced it and point to the good.

If you do not want to accept this fact, fine. Have a nice day.

 

[Sahar]

It is not about praying,

Look at Malaysia, a muslim nation, its advanced, excellent infrastructure (years ahead of us in the U.S with basic mobile infrastructure) and so on, The people in Malaysia do Not follow the Muslim type of pray you described, actually, in most places such as KL, JB and Penang they are no more different from NewYorkers or Cockneys.

It seems to me that these praying Traditions, whatever you find "inner peace" or not, causes a less good physical life, with less food, less access to good education and more violence and hatred.

And today they are backwards and poor. It may be likely that they did not do as much praying in the early life of their existence as today, perhaps agriculture and hard work was more important?

Praying is less significant and if you go to KL or JB as examples, there is very little difference from Cockneys or NewYorkers, you got some people taking it seriously, whiles the large majority rather work hard then pray.

Do you know how Muslims pray?

 

[Sahar]

It is clear the muslims here do not want to look at the evidence, you feel insulted by any fact shown you are wrong, so I give up.

Oh no, evidence and facts?!!

Malaysia is my prime example, an advanced loving nation and in comparison to backwards muslims nations such as Iraq or say Egypt the people have it good. This is based on the basic facts of the world, I lived in Indonesia and Malaysia, I seen it, I been to both Egypt (with very isolated mindset I can tell you)

he he he...you know what, I highly doubt that you traveled to any.

If you do not want to accept this fact, fine. Have a nice day.

Of course, after the real facts and images showed the opposite, you give up.

 

[Sahar]

Performing the prayer at home takes only 5 - 10 minutes.

 

[.lava]

It is not only about the physical activity of praying, but the mindset behind it. This life mean nothing because god is the one and only, soon you die and come to heaven and so on. This mindset would affect your performance in life, would it not?

Once again, I used EXISTING examples such as Malaysia, they are MUSLIM, just as you, but they have made a wonderful society with healthcare, education and so on, why do they make this, why do the Malay people think this is important compared to other more traditional muslim nations? See the linkage here? Please look at this objectively rather then the "My religion is right, my religion is right, my religion is right other evil they are evil they lie they lie" in your head.

I mean no disrespect, just relaying the facts of the world here.

i believe you mean no disrespect only now i began to understand what you are saying.

i don't know how to summarize this. let me start by saying you don't have to have faith in after life to perceive this reality as meaningless. besides, it is not meaningless. according to our teachings heaven and hell mainly start here. in other words, earning whatever you deserve does not start when you die. this separation between this reality and after life is an illusion. but you are right about one thing if i understood you correctly. the issue of destiny. some people act like as if everything is destiny so no matter what they do, destiny would take over. that's what make people lazy. but this is a false belief. according to our teachings, one has to serve others to be close to God. locking yourself at home and prayer 24 hours a day is not something that's welcomed. because this reality and every creature in it (not just human) is creation of God, we are all part of it and by our nature we need each other. i mean, if you just check out what you have on your table for an ordinary meal and try to imagine how many people worked for it. it is pretty much up to people to work for money or to work for God. both may seem doing the same job.

so, no, this life is meaningless because this is the only place to earn heaven to be close to God. noone culd earn heaven simply for praying everyday. one should be useful for others. that's how one could serve God since God does not need anything at all. it does not need our prayers. but Muslims may know that ablution and performing salaats is refreshing. it makes you feel like light as if you changed your batteries, gives you energy. it clears mind, pushes away fear or worries. it is like a gulf you get in and rest. i am thankful we have this oppurtunity in our daily lives. and if some people have a negative mind set behind it, they should doubt themselves. most of Muslims i know, i see, they kinda shine like stars. they smile and they are hopeful. only if something gives them hard time, they turn to God and say "we are for you". i mean, difficulties are our tests in life. when it becomes like that, it is OK to accpet it as destiny since our free will do not have power on everything. but if we are able to do things and if we don't, we are responsible of not doing anything. making no desicions is a desicion itself. everything has consequences

.

 

[.lava]

Oh no, evidence and facts?!!

lol we must be space Muslims

..that came from outer space..therefor we are not examples of this world. maybe we should take our friend and give him a ride with our spaceship

.

 

[aymen amir]

It is clear the muslims here do not want to look at the evidence, you feel insulted by any fact shown you are wrong, so I give up.

Malaysia my prime example, an advanced loving nation and in comparison to backwards muslims nations such as Iraq or say Egypt the people have it good. This is based on the basic facts of the world, I lived in Indonesia and Malaysia, I seen it, I been to both Egypt (with very isolated mindset I can tell you) and other more aggressive Muslim nation. All I am relaying is the statistics of the world, I seen it and I experienced it and point to the good.

If you do not want to accept this fact, fine. Have a nice day.

I TOTALLY agree with you on some points you made the first is that most Muslim countries suck BIG time that's 100% true... and about Malaysia it is a Muslim country dressed in a western dress

you know how the Muslims used to RULE the world ???
they ruled the world because they were using the holly QURAN as the constitution ... now a days we suck because we are trying to become the best without the QURAN WHICH is impossible

so more praying actually benefit's the Muslim nation,but its not the matter of just standing in the mosque and reciting verses from the QURAN these verses we recite must be implemented on our daily life and thats what made the previous Muslim nation lead the world

 

[Smoke]

And there is no explanation to Why?

No ancient peoples took menstruation as lightly as modern people do. Orthodox Jewish women immerse themselves in the mikveh after menstruation. Orthodox Christian women don't receive Communion during menstruation. Hindus, Jains, and some Buddhists follow various rules about menstruation, usually including women's not participating in temple services. Menstruation is serious magic.

 

[dust1n]

To OP:

It would seem to me that when men and women can 'pray' together, that displicine would have increased, thus making them better servants. That is to say, instead of seperating men and women, but allowing men and women to exist on a realm other than a sexual one, would be a great service to Allah, or God, or whatever.

 

[dust1n]

No ancient peoples took menstruation as lightly as modern people do. Orthodox Jewish women immerse themselves in the mikveh after menstruation. Orthodox Christian women don't receive Communion during menstruation. Hindus, Jains, and some Buddhists follow various rules about menstruation, usually including women's not participating in temple services. Menstruation is serious magic.

I've never really understood why Menstruation was such a serious pretext to oppress women.

 

[Smoke]

I've never really understood why Menstruation was such a serious pretext to oppress women.

You can't trust anything that bleeds for days at a time and doesn't die.

Seriously, that's one case where I'm not sure it's oppressive. Some women see the rituals attendant to menstruation as empowering and meaningful. Regardless of that, if you have a magical worldview, menstruation could be seen as a big deal. I had a priest (not a very traditional priest, admittedly) tell me one time that women didn't come to church during their period because the Eucharist is solar magic and menstruation is lunar magic. I think he was on to something.

 

[aymen amir]

You can't trust anything that bleeds for days at a time and doesn't die.

 

[Gabethewiking]

I TOTALLY agree with you on some points you made the first is that most Muslim countries suck BIG time that's 100% true... and about Malaysia it is a Muslim country dressed in a western dress

you know how the Muslims used to RULE the world ???
they ruled the world because they were using the holly QURAN as the constitution ... now a days we suck because we are trying to become the best without the QURAN WHICH is impossible

so more praying actually benefit's the Muslim nation,but its not the matter of just standing in the mosque and reciting verses from the QURAN these verses we recite must be implemented on our daily life and thats what made the previous Muslim nation lead the world

Well, either way, apperantly I "hate" Muslims and am "evil dude" for pointing out that Malaysia is a lovely nation because of their none-traditional forms. I recommend you to visit it.

You may be right, but the other way around, Malaysia is a Western Country in a Muslim Dress, as Anyone from Iraq, Egypt or more Fundie Muslim nations would most likely consider Malaysia, as a whole, western/None-Muslim/Secular.

What is the point, saying anything that does not fit the "form" make me an evil guy and they (muslims I spoke to hear now) refuse to accept the fact. What can you do. You peak to them, Your Muslim..

 

[Kerr]

Honestly, I don´t get the entire seperation thing... maybe it is because I get distracted by everything. Lack of distractions included. So speaking as someone who gets distracted by everything, it just seems strange to me since women don´t distract me to any larger degree then anything else. Not saying they are not a distraction, just saying if it is not them, it is something else and the best thing I can do is not to avoid the distractions in situations where I need to focus but to learn to ignore them and, well, focus. Or something... lol.

 

[.lava]

Honestly, I don´t get the entire seperation thing... maybe it is because I get distracted by everything. Lack of distractions included. So speaking as someone who gets distracted by everything, it just seems strange to me since women don´t distract me to any larger degree then anything else. Not saying they are not a distraction, just saying if it is not them, it is something else and the best thing I can do is not to avoid the distractions in situations where I need to focus but to learn to ignore them and, well, focus. Or something... lol.

lol you're interesting

laws are for anyone. sure there are men who's not distracted by women. but if there is a law in Islam, that law is not written considering the best kind of men or the worst. one can not come up with the idea like "i am not distracted by anyone so this law should not include me". laws are applied to everyone equally

.