An honest question for women ...

[linwood]

Meh...women want sex too. I don't think we should get too general when it comes to genders. My only complaint is the way men act out when "objectifying" women. I don't have any problem for instance if a guy were to ask me out no matter what he look like. It's the attitude by the men who think they're entitled to act like jerks to get a woman. Some guys can't take no for an answer and when they do they act as if they've been cussed out or attacked thus being a jerk about it.

You should try rejecting a woman.

There is no "easy" way to do it.

Rejecting any woman is a dangerous situation.
They don`t take it well no matter how nicely it`s done.

In my experience anyway.

 

[sky dancer]

... especially women who complain that they're being sexually objectified. Would you mind if a good-looking person were to objectify you? Are you offended only when ugly people do that?

Just an honest question.

I'm sixty years old. If anyone, other than my mate, sexually objectified me, I'd be tickled. As it is, I'm happy to be sexually objectified by someone I love.

 

[Madhuri]

To Vendetta, Father Heather and Penumbra:

I'll reply quickly to you in this post

You are right about one thing that I did not talk about, which is that a lot of women reinforce and encourage this promiscuous behaviour of men. I suppose to give an example of why I get angry and emotional is that it happens reasonably often that I am attracted to someone who seems genuinely nice/good, funny, down to earth etc. and we're getting along great but I'm not someone who likes to have sex immediately or flirt outrageously because I value forming a friendship foundation primarily. But the next thing I know, some (insert offensive word) girls come along and pretty much make it obvious they want and are ready for sex and of course the guy runs off with them.

I have no problem attracting men in the first place but it's been very difficult to find someone who won't run off with other women if they get the chance. It's hard to find someone with my values, in other words, which include some level of self control and chastity. I am thoroughly unattracted to men who sleep around a lot, which leaves a very small percentage of people left.

And yes, I blame both men and women for allowing this sex culture to develop.

I actually get the impression that things are fairly extreme in American culture. I don't quite understand the 'you're too nice' rejection unless the guy comes across as timid or shy to a girl who is really loud/talkative and extroverted. There are also ways that men can try to act as nice as possible and it comes across wrong (like desperate or uncomfortable). But I've never had to tell a guy that, lol.

One reason why women can be attracted to jerks is because they act confident. Women are attracted to confidence. But sometimes we aren't able to distinguish confidence and arrogance.

I do agree that I am probably spending time in the wrong groups of people. I'll have to do something about that.

 

[Penumbra]

I'm sixty years old. If anyone, other than my mate, sexually objectified me, I'd be tickled. As it is, I'm happy to be sexually objectified by someone I love.

You seem to be using the term sexual objectification different from the norm.

Typically, it means viewing a person primarily for their sexual value without much concern or thought about the person's personality, intellect, and uniqueness. It doesn't simply mean finding someone sexy. If someone is deeply aware about a person's personality, intellect, and uniqueness, and values those things, and also finds the person sexy, then it's not really sexual objectification.

Therefore, I doubt you are happy to be sexually objectified by someone you love.

 

[Penumbra]

To Vendetta, Father Heather and Penumbra:

I'll reply quickly to you in this post

You are right about one thing that I did not talk about, which is that a lot of women reinforce and encourage this promiscuous behaviour of men. I suppose to give an example of why I get angry and emotional is that it happens reasonably often that I am attracted to someone who seems genuinely nice/good, funny, down to earth etc. and we're getting along great but I'm not someone who likes to have sex immediately or flirt outrageously because I value forming a friendship foundation primarily. But the next thing I know, some (insert offensive word) girls come along and pretty much make it obvious they want and are ready for sex and of course the guy runs off with them.

Some of this can be softened by the adoption of a certain type of mindset. If this happens, and a guy runs off with girls, you can look at it as a good thing, because it quickly acted as a filter to remove an incompatible guy from your view. Mentally thank the girls, let them have him, and move on. Easier said than done, perhaps, but useful.

I have no problem attracting men in the first place but it's been very difficult to find someone who won't run off with other women if they get the chance. It's hard to find someone with my values, in other words, which include some level of self control and chastity. I am thoroughly unattracted to men who sleep around a lot, which leaves a very small percentage of people left.

And yes, I blame both men and women for allowing this sex culture to develop.

The bad news is, you're right- it's a fairly small percentage.

The good news is that, the small percentage is still reasonable. Besides, being the majority can be easier, but often isn't best.

I used to have a more reserved view towards sexuality, in the sense that I found myself really disliking sexual culture. I really couldn't grasp how people could have sex with someone they barely knew, and I kind of judged them for it. But later I adopted more of a live and let live attitude towards it. I still don't get it, and wouldn't engage in it, but I don't really have a strong argument against promiscuous (but safe) sex, so I don't really criticize people for it. It's just not my thing.

I actually get the impression that things are fairly extreme in American culture. I don't quite understand the 'you're too nice' rejection unless the guy comes across as timid or shy to a girl who is really loud/talkative and extroverted. There are also ways that men can try to act as nice as possible and it comes across wrong (like desperate or uncomfortable). But I've never had to tell a guy that, lol.

One reason why women can be attracted to jerks is because they act confident. Women are attracted to confidence. But sometimes we aren't able to distinguish confidence and arrogance.

I do agree that I am probably spending time in the wrong groups of people. I'll have to do something about that.

It's hard for me to say how extreme American culture is on this matter, not having traveled outside of America myself. But I can say, I haven't really found it to be a problem personally. I mean, it is true that among people, there is a very small percentage of people that I would be compatible with, but that's due to numerous factors and compatibility in views towards sexual promiscuity is only one of them.

I would never tell a guy that he is too nice. Being nice isn't a problem. Being a pushover or coward is a problem. For the most part, I wouldn't particularly want to be with a guy that doesn't stand up for what he believes, or that I think I could take in a fight.

 

[Madhuri]

Some of this can be softened by the adoption of a certain type of mindset. If this happens, and a guy runs off with girls, you can look at it as a good thing, because it quickly acted as a filter to remove an incompatible guy from your view. Mentally thank the girls, let them have him, and move on. Easier said than done, perhaps, but useful.

I agree. But it is still highly disappointing to re-establish every time it happens how hard it is to find what I am looking for.

The bad news is, you're right- it's a fairly small percentage.

The good news is that, the small percentage is still reasonable. Besides, being the majority can be easier, but often isn't best.

I used to have a more reserved view towards sexuality, in the sense that I found myself really disliking sexual culture. I really couldn't grasp how people could have sex with someone they barely knew, and I kind of judged them for it. But later I adopted more of a live and let live attitude towards it. I still don't get it, and wouldn't engage in it, but I don't really have a strong argument against promiscuous (but safe) sex, so I don't really criticize people for it. It's just not my thing.

I can relate to your attitude since I don't dislike individuals who behave this way and am friends with people who are like this, but continue to feel disappointment in that my own needs are not being met.

It's hard for me to say how extreme American culture is on this matter, not having traveled outside of America myself. But I can say, I haven't really found it to be a problem personally. I mean, it is true that among people, there is a very small percentage of people that I would be compatible with, but that's due to numerous factors and compatibility in views towards sexual promiscuity is only one of them.

I would never tell a guy that he is too nice. Being nice isn't a problem. Being a pushover or coward is a problem. For the most part, I wouldn't particularly want to be with a guy that doesn't stand up for what he believes, or that I think I could take in a fight.

Exactly

Have you had trouble finding good men that you are compatible with? What circles do you tend to find them in?

 

[Vendetta]

I am a navy guy...never timid. American culture? Sure whatever. Women like jerks, point blank. It has nothing to do with confidence. To be a jerk? Really? LoL. I am old fashioned and women I've met really aren't down with a nice guy, point blank.

 

[Penumbra]

Have you had trouble finding good men that you are compatible with? What circles do you tend to find them in?

Well, I observe that a very small percentage of people would be compatible with me, but for whatever reason, I've not had trouble finding them.

I met my partner in college as engineering students.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Nope, unfortunately. As a woman looking for love this society is very cruel to me. The only men I meet who seem genuinely respectful and serious and somewhat trustworthy are at least twice my age.

Yeah, that's because men learn how to convincingly pretend that they're trustworthy and respectful as they get older. A man interested in a woman twenty years younger than he is is objectifying the woman as much, if not more than a younger guy. They've just learned how to tell women what they want to hear. Sometimes older guys even convince themselves that they're not objectifying the woman twenty years younger that they're interested in. Guys who don't objectify women are interested in women their own age.

 

[Madhuri]

Yeah, that's because men learn how to convincingly pretend that they're trustworthy and respectful as they get older. A man interested in a woman twenty years younger than he is is objectifying the woman as much, if not more than a younger guy. They've just learned how to tell women what they want to hear. Sometimes older guys even convince themselves that they're not objectifying the woman twenty years younger that they're interested in. Guys who don't objectify women are interested in women their own age.

Good point.

 

[Madhuri]

I am a navy guy...never timid. American culture? Sure whatever. Women like jerks, point blank. It has nothing to do with confidence. To be a jerk? Really? LoL. I am old fashioned and women I've met really aren't down with a nice guy, point blank.

I can't really explain it to you because I'm not one of those women. I'm attracted to nice qualities and as soon as I see jerkish behaviour I'm put off. Most of my girl friends are like me. The girls I see gravitating toward shallow men with bad personalities are girls who are also shallow with bad personalities.

But then again, you've claimed to have had a lot of sex with a lot of different women. But you don't seem to identify yourself as the type of man I am criticising. Are you somehwre in between or are you at an age or point in your life where you are looking for a meaningful relationship?

 

[MissAlice]

You should try rejecting a woman.

There is no "easy" way to do it.

Rejecting any woman is a dangerous situation.
They don`t take it well no matter how nicely it`s done.

In my experience anyway.

Well I've certainly been rejected. All I did with those two rejections was lay in bed all day feeling sorry for myself. Then again I'm pretty shy when it comes to dates or asking guys out. Anyway I've moved on since then. :sad:

 

[Vendetta]

[
QUOTE=Madhuri;2471308]I can't really explain it to you because I'm not one of those women. I'm attracted to nice qualities and as soon as I see jerkish behaviour I'm put off. Most of my girl friends are like me. The girls I see gravitating toward shallow men with bad personalities are girls who are also shallow with bad personalities.

But then again, you've claimed to have had a lot of sex with a lot of different women. But you don't seem to identify yourself as the type of man I am criticising. Are you somehwre in between or are you at an age or point in your life where you are looking for a meaningful relationship?[/QUOTE]

Meaningful relationship sometimes I think is a myth. I am a hopeless-romantic-navy-dude

 

[linwood]

Well I've certainly been rejected. :

I absolutely refuse to believe that!

 

[Jacksnyte]

I can't really explain it to you because I'm not one of those women. I'm attracted to nice qualities and as soon as I see jerkish behaviour I'm put off. Most of my girl friends are like me. The girls I see gravitating toward shallow men with bad personalities are girls who are also shallow with bad personalities.

But then again, you've claimed to have had a lot of sex with a lot of different women. But you don't seem to identify yourself as the type of man I am criticising. Are you somehwre in between or are you at an age or point in your life where you are looking for a meaningful relationship?

Most women will make the claim you are making, and then fall head over heels for a real jerk of a guy. I don't think women consciously seek out jerks, I just think that they unconsciously find them more attractive for some reason. If I had a dime for every time I have heard a woman claim to only like nice guys, but proceed to date only jerks...!

 

[Darkness]

I have to agree with Madhuri on this one. It is not that I think men are biologically predetermined to be dicks, but our patriarchal culture has conditioned the majority of men to be dicks. I have trouble forming friendships with other males, because the majority of them act in a chauvinist manner, which ****** me off. I am also frustrated when women buy into the chauvinist narrative, but it does not cause me to dislike them; it is more of a pity emotion.

I am a navy guy...never timid. American culture? Sure whatever. Women like jerks, point blank. It has nothing to do with confidence. To be a jerk? Really? LoL. I am old fashioned and women I've met really aren't down with a nice guy, point blank.

Describe what you mean by old fashioned. It sounds like it could be a synonym for "boring"; no offense intended. I would argue that in addition to jerks being "confident," that jerks are typically more playful and more of a challenge, which is very attractive to many women.

 

[Vendetta]

Darkness I haven't forgotten how you have had issues with men.....then again not insinuating on your sexual orientation but it crossed my mind, so I can understand why you agree with Madhuri. So, to explain the concept of "old fashioned" since you conviniently forgot or failed to read, was that typical American old fashioned is a man who opens doors, brings roses, pays the bill on the first date, etc

Edit:

Again not insinuating anything (or intentionally not to), I just recalled you some while ago that "all men are (use explicit language here) and upon further questioning you said that you were going through something. I made it a point to bring it up to show you why I think you agree with Madhuri. Anywho, Jacksnyte offered a really good reason.

 

[Songbird]

So Madhuri,

I've been thinking about your posts in this thread, and from the start your sentiments struck a chord with me. I don't have much reason to care about the dating and sex culture for myself, but I see my kids pick up attitudes about it that bother me. And I care about anyone who's got a dog in the fight, and even us (not so) old married folk are part of it, being alive and all.

I'm friends with a group of twenty-something single men who are in a rock band. Their band just took off, and they are starting to experience some success, getting on tour lineups with increasingly big names. Observing the difference between my dating history and theirs has been educational. For one, they've jokingly admitted the reason they started a band was to "get chicks". The sheer number of people they've slept with, in various and sundry circumstances challenges my commitment to be nonjudgmental. Though, on an unrelated note, a friend told me if one decides to not judge others, one must give up the ability to offer compliments. So judging someone's actions is actually appropriate and normal in thoughtful ways.

Anyway, I understand that using status to enhance sexual appeal is common, and that rock star status is undeservedly high. What I'm disappointed in is the entire setup - being worshiped isn't healthy, and these dudes are friggin worshiped by hordes of teen girls - who thankfully are overlooked by the dudes due to their age. However, post-show partying includes lots of just barely legal-age women who aren't overlooked, and even though it appears I'm contradicting one of my earlier posts, there seems to be a distinct taking advantage of younger women in this scene.

Frankly, these guys want sex, and they'll take it from girls who probably aren't the most emotionally healthy, secure, mature, level-headed people. And it's a cycle that fosters a culture of sex - without analyzing it closely, it looks like everyone's having sex with the cool jerks, which makes a lot of young adults feel envious. At least, after numerous conversations with these guys and some of their friends, that's my conclusion. Once I actually asked one of the guys, "Come on, do you really want to sleep with a girl who would sleep with you?" Meaning, with how he treats women (oh, and he refuses to ever wear condoms), anyone who is willing to be treated like that must have low self-regard.

I am quite tired and rambling, and I'm sure there are a lot of flaws in this post. But I think I got out what I wanted to.

To conclude, I see some of what you experience. Women who want to establish a relationship prior to sex are overlooked in favor of those willing to have it right away.

And men, what is your preference? Would you have sex with someone without knowing them? Would you bypass a woman you like in favor of someone who would have sex?

 

[Badran]

And men, what is your preference? Would you have sex with someone without knowing them? Would you bypass a woman you like in favor of someone who would have sex?

My needs wouldn't be fulfilled if i have sex that way. With someone i don't know i mean.

What i want or need is an experience that can't be provided by someone i don't have affection for, or find special in anyway.

I'm pretty sure there are plenty of men who would not bypass a person they like just for quick sex with a person they don't know.

 

[Madhuri]

My needs wouldn't be fulfilled if i have sex that way. With someone i don't know i mean.

What i want or need is an experience that can't be provided by someone i don't have affection for, or find special in anyway.

I'm pretty sure there are plenty of men who would not bypass a person they like just for quick sex with a person they don't know.

Wish there were more men like you Badran! My culture encourage hold this value.