Good question. I do know what he is going to do when he comes back.
Don’t quite understand….. At some point, for the future of my family, I would do something to stop oppression of my family
Good question… did they leave?
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An Issue Of Valuing The Lives Of Others
- Thread starter Revoltingest
- Start date
Good question. I do know what he is going to do when he comes back.
Don’t quite understand….. At some point, for the future of my family, I would do something to stop oppression of my family
Good question… did they leave?
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Which is to have a beer with me.
So then you understand their hostilities toward Israel.
To where? Gaza is described as an open air prison. They can't so easily leave.
I cannot say for sure that gradual encroachment will benefit civilians, however peace will benefit them. Failure will benefit Hamas.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
It won't benefit the dead, and those that survive will desire/seek vengeance for slain family members, so there will be no true lasting peace and the cycle of violence will eventually continue as it has for decades.
Actually, I would understand the Palestinians hostility against Hamas. If Hamas would lay down their arms, use the billions of help-dollars to building the community, love would rule.
This violence is not a cycle. It has an end, and that is either through treaties or deaths; and Gaza must choose life. It has been choosing death repeatedly. That is why I am in favor of encroachment in retaliation for rockets. Either it ends with two states or with a much sadder ending. I'm also in favor of annexation by any country at all that isn't influenced by Hezbollah and Iran: anybody that will stop the missiles being lobbed into Israel, so we can put all of this bloodshed as far into the past as possible.
That is so true. It is run by the the prisoners, too; which is kind of crazy. It was a mistake on Israel's part to withdraw which gave away the keys to the asylum. I think what ought to happen is either Jordan or Egypt or Israel or somebody (anybody except the UN) should take over there. I wouldn't let the UN do anything without adult supervision. I do not think Israel should do it, but somebody should. Why? Because the Gazans seem unable to get their stuff together and are going to get themselves encroached out of existence if they can't stop shelling their neighbor. Another reason Israel shouldn't take over is that it early on funded Hamas to oppose Fatah, so it would be a questionable move. Still, it would be better than the current situation. *lifts pinkie while discussing the wars of others and their troubles* Still, none of it matters much to me. I just don't like hearing about death and hate.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
That would require concession and cooperation on both sides.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Improving the treatment of Palestinians and the conditions they live in would be a good start. Dehumanization fuels the hatred.
EXACTLY! The dehumanization that Hamas has exacted on the Palestinians by taking humanitarian aid to build tunnels instead of building business, extracted fuel to supply their energy instead of keeping hospitals open, siphoning monies for schools and instead, sending men to be trained as soldiers in Iran, taxing food for daily living to then use for evil purposes...
If they would simply lay down their weapons and help the Palestinians condition, it would be a great starte
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
So A's mistreatment of B is contingent on how C antagonizes A? Remember who's punching up and who's punching down.
Nice job in ignoring what Hamas is doing! You aren’t the first to white-wash Hamas.
You forget that Palestinians are getting work permits to work in Israel and not visa versa. It reminds me of all the American people who say how horrible the US is and yet the world wants to come and live here
I think the problem here is that you don’t understand the culture where the real issue is:
Reminds me of a testimony of a Palestinian who said “I was taught from childhood to hate Israelis”. He later became a Jordanian fight just itching to kill an Israeli until Jesus appeared to him and he became a Christian removing the hatred.
In my signature, we always believe Jesus and love is the answer.
Therein lies the suggestion to have someone take over Gaza and invest in the people. Israel is not in a good position to do so. It is itself under siege by Hezbollah and Iran as well as Syria at times. That is why its focused on defense and also why Gaza keeps lobbing missiles. I think a country that ticks all the necessary boxes is Australia. They might do it, they don't have anything to gain and they have a national origin story of rising from an imprisoned population; but any country that could keep Iran and Hezbollah from launching missiles at Israel would be better. Any time Israel tries to do anything its going to be blamed or framed due to the propaganda of war. A third party (and not the USA or UN) should step up.
What bugs me, is if israel continues the genocidal pursuit.. wiping the palestinians off the map of levant a far bigger war could start.
And if 'we the people' are supposed to defend israel, guess who's children are going to be sacrificed next?
Secret Chief
Vetted Member
The world? I can only conclude that you are taking some sort of psychoactive substance.
Secret Chief
Vetted Member
Well yes, but not the rich.
I dont keep that ideology as many of the richest folk have very little possessions.
Wealth is a perspective.
My understanding of the situation is that much of the Muslim world is intolerant of a Jewish state in its midst and is committed to its extinction, and for as long as that remains the case, Israel will be defending itself from terrorist attacks. That explains what we are seeing today.
And it does feel very much like a Muslim versus Jew thing, as the hostilities spread from just the Palestinians who lost land to much of the rest of the Arab world to non-Arab Muslims who did not - at least initially - to non-Arab Muslims like the Iranians. What's their beef with the state of Israel or reason to form an alliance with the Arabs if not religious/ethnic?
How did they get to that point?
With the help of the West, Jews desperate for a homeland after the Holocaust moved back into their former homeland. The reaction of the locals was that they couldn't live there, and that if they didn't leave, they needed to be exterminated. And it wasn't just the Palestinians living in the immediate region who lost land that took that attitude. As noted, much of the Arab world agreed, and later, other Muslims. These Jews needed to leave dead or alive in their estimation. The attack by Hamas was just the latest manifestation of this irrational attitude that has resulted in several Arab-Israeli wars, airplane hijackings, and suicide bombings.
I say irrational not only because this attitude based in ancient bigotries would be destructive even if successful, but because these people keep attacking a more powerful foe and suffering losses. By now, they should have come to understand that these are going to be their neighbors like it or not and that the ongoing lethal intolerance to their presence will harm them more than their perceived enemies, but they haven't.
Each previous attack resulted in Arab losses including the establishment of what are called open-air prisons. Intolerance -> attack -> loss -> continued intolerance -> continued attack -> increasing hardship and misery. Yet the intolerance for a Jewish state never softens, so how could this turn out any other way?
What's a proper response for Israel to take? Not my call, but I don't see them ever solving this problem, because I don't see the Palestinians ever recognizing that they HAVE to tolerate their unwanted neighbors if they want better lives than living in these compounds and being bombed in them. Whatever Israel does, as long as there are intolerant Arabs remaining in sufficient numbers to commit act of terrorism, the Jews will be attacked.
There are no good answers for the Jews in the face of this unrelenting lethal intolerance. No response they take will end the violence for them as long as there are Muslims that refuse to accept the right of the Jews to a homeland and peaceful lives, or if not that, the fact that they are not leaving and are more powerful.
What would happen if the Middle Eastern Muslims put down their arms and simply accepted that the Jews are entitled to live in Israel peacefully, or, if not that, that there is nothing they can do about it but continue to fight and suffer? It seems that war and terrorism would disappear from the region, and people could all coexist peacefully.
But that's not going to happen, and because of that, this will not work out well for anybody. One doesn't need to take sides. One doesn't need to second-guess what the Israeli response ought to be. Whatever it is, there will be more terrorism or war in the future for them, and more suffering for Palestinians. That's a shame, but it appears that the die is cast for generations to come until the Muslims learn that they must tolerate the Jews however begrudgingly. In the meantime, thousands of Palestinians will die, be maimed, and/or be displaced and subject to assorted privations (food, water, power, homes).
And yes that sucks, but it's a predictable result of this relentless, irrational, tribalistic, lethal intolerance of the Jewish state. The root problem is a failed ideology that persists generation after generation and draws new people into this blood feud. For as long as it continues, there will pain and suffering - more for the Palestinians than either their perpetual target or the Palestinian's allies, who stoke the fire from a distance. And there appears to be no end in sight for this intolerance of Israel's existence.
And it does feel very much like a Muslim versus Jew thing, as the hostilities spread from just the Palestinians who lost land to much of the rest of the Arab world to non-Arab Muslims who did not - at least initially - to non-Arab Muslims like the Iranians. What's their beef with the state of Israel or reason to form an alliance with the Arabs if not religious/ethnic?
How did they get to that point?
With the help of the West, Jews desperate for a homeland after the Holocaust moved back into their former homeland. The reaction of the locals was that they couldn't live there, and that if they didn't leave, they needed to be exterminated. And it wasn't just the Palestinians living in the immediate region who lost land that took that attitude. As noted, much of the Arab world agreed, and later, other Muslims. These Jews needed to leave dead or alive in their estimation. The attack by Hamas was just the latest manifestation of this irrational attitude that has resulted in several Arab-Israeli wars, airplane hijackings, and suicide bombings.
I say irrational not only because this attitude based in ancient bigotries would be destructive even if successful, but because these people keep attacking a more powerful foe and suffering losses. By now, they should have come to understand that these are going to be their neighbors like it or not and that the ongoing lethal intolerance to their presence will harm them more than their perceived enemies, but they haven't.
Each previous attack resulted in Arab losses including the establishment of what are called open-air prisons. Intolerance -> attack -> loss -> continued intolerance -> continued attack -> increasing hardship and misery. Yet the intolerance for a Jewish state never softens, so how could this turn out any other way?
What's a proper response for Israel to take? Not my call, but I don't see them ever solving this problem, because I don't see the Palestinians ever recognizing that they HAVE to tolerate their unwanted neighbors if they want better lives than living in these compounds and being bombed in them. Whatever Israel does, as long as there are intolerant Arabs remaining in sufficient numbers to commit act of terrorism, the Jews will be attacked.
There are no good answers for the Jews in the face of this unrelenting lethal intolerance. No response they take will end the violence for them as long as there are Muslims that refuse to accept the right of the Jews to a homeland and peaceful lives, or if not that, the fact that they are not leaving and are more powerful.
What would happen if the Middle Eastern Muslims put down their arms and simply accepted that the Jews are entitled to live in Israel peacefully, or, if not that, that there is nothing they can do about it but continue to fight and suffer? It seems that war and terrorism would disappear from the region, and people could all coexist peacefully.
But that's not going to happen, and because of that, this will not work out well for anybody. One doesn't need to take sides. One doesn't need to second-guess what the Israeli response ought to be. Whatever it is, there will be more terrorism or war in the future for them, and more suffering for Palestinians. That's a shame, but it appears that the die is cast for generations to come until the Muslims learn that they must tolerate the Jews however begrudgingly. In the meantime, thousands of Palestinians will die, be maimed, and/or be displaced and subject to assorted privations (food, water, power, homes).
And yes that sucks, but it's a predictable result of this relentless, irrational, tribalistic, lethal intolerance of the Jewish state. The root problem is a failed ideology that persists generation after generation and draws new people into this blood feud. For as long as it continues, there will pain and suffering - more for the Palestinians than either their perpetual target or the Palestinian's allies, who stoke the fire from a distance. And there appears to be no end in sight for this intolerance of Israel's existence.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
No, I'm not. Murdering innocent people doesn't justify murdering more innocent people in retaliation. Do Jesus and I need to tag team to teach your basic morality?
Which illustrates that they're in more dire and desperate situation, and it's not comparable to immigration in America because they're already home, and what other options do they have?
I'm well aware of how vile religious extremism is, hence why it's unwise to fuel or emulate it.
Practice what you preach. I'll pray for you.
Absolutely understand the difference between murder and killing. Understand the reality of how winning a war isn’t translated into “all was good” as innocent people die (thinking of the Israelites who were purposefully murdered vs the innocent who are killed in Palestine.
You also don’t view the reality that there is a hereafter and it doesn’t mean the end of the innocent.
Rise up against Hamas
Appreciate your prayers. I am keenly aware that we all sin and come short of the glory of God (as per my signature)
Hamas might be wiped out (although that's highly
unlikely), but Palestinians are a massive population.
They'd be at worst fully evicted from Gaza (which is
highly likely to be Israel's goal).
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