An Issue Of Valuing The Lives Of Others

[Father Heathen]

Here it is, ladies and gentlemen. Hamas is showing the oppressed Palestinians thier huge hearts of compassion and care for their oppressed people

Hamas is hoarding vast amounts of fuel as Gaza hospitals run low, U.S. officials say

U.N. officials warned that aid groups, water treatment plants and bakeries in the enclave are running dangerously low on fuel.

www.nbcnews.com

Makes one wonder who really is the oppressor… Israel or Hamas!

Nobody here is defending/supporting Hamas, as far as I'm aware. We're talking about innocent civilians. Doing what makes Hamas bad also makes IDF bad. As has been repeatedly stated, two wrongs don't make a right. What would Jesus do? Remember that guy? Isn't your career based on his message?

 

[Orbit]

True… but Hamas is the hen that produced the egg. (size proportion done on purpose)

How far back do you want to go to determine "fault"? The Balfour Declaration? This situation didn't start on Oct 7th.

 

[Lyndon]

Israel was founded by Jewish terrorists and they continue using terrorism to this day

 

[Kenny]

Well, that's a matter of perspective. Israel has been oppressing and committing war crimes on the people of Gaza for decades, not to mention the continued expansionism and murder on the west bank. If we are of the mind that retaliatory violence against civilians is justified by prior atrocities, we have no grounds on which to condemn what Hamas did, and we certainly cannot say that they cast the first stone.

Personally, I'm not a tit-for-tat kind of guy. Just because you have been wronged doesn't necessarily justify any response. The key is proportionality, intent and effect. This is why I can condemn Hamas for their barbarism in response to historical oppression while also condemning Israel's response to terrorist atrocities by committing war crimes. It's not that ANY response was unwarranted, but that these specific responses are unjustified, disproportionate and overwhelmingly negatively impact civilians.

I guess it is one’s perspective.

I suppose, equally, if parents said to their children, “Go to you room and don’t come out until I tell you! I am tired of you disrespecting us!” you would say that the parents are oppressive.

 

[Kenny]

Nobody here is defending/supporting Hamas, as far as I'm aware. We're talking about innocent civilians. Doing what makes Hamas bad also makes IDF bad. As has been repeatedly stated, two wrongs don't make a right. What would Jesus do? Remember that guy? Isn't your career based on his message?

I don’t really agree, although the death of any person is horrible because it isn’t just that life but the generations that come from there.

I go back to the questions that no one answers...

If Hamas is setting up a missile site next to your house and you know that Israel would respond against that missile site, would you:

1) Stop them;
2) Join them;
3) or leave the ares.

 

[Estro Felino]

That's because they're largely unified
for Israel,

Christians believe in a Heavenly Jerusalem.

Awake, awake Zion, put your most beautiful garments,
Shake off your dust, Rise up, Holy Jerusalem.

 

[Kenny]

How far back do you want to go to determine "fault"? The Balfour Declaration? This situation didn't start on Oct 7th.

Maybe all the way to Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael? You could go back to Adam, Eve, Abel and Cain.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I guess it is one’s perspective.

I suppose, equally, if parents said to their children, “Go to you room and don’t come out until I tell you! I am tired of you disrespecting us!” you would say that the parents are oppressive.

No, I wouldn't.

I have no idea how you think that comparison is appropriate. Are you comparing Palestinians to children and the IDF to their parents? Is that a comparison you want to make?

Do you contest the fact that Israel has been engaging in war crimes in Gaza and settler colonialism and mass murder on the west bank?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I don’t really agree, although the death of any person is horrible because it isn’t just that life but the generations that come from there.

I go back to the questions that no one answers...

If Hamas is setting up a missile site next to your house and you know that Israel would respond against that missile site, would you:

1) Stop them;

They have guns and bombs.

2) Join them;

Tends to often be the only option other than dying for a lot of people.

3) or leave the ares.

Civilians in Gaza can't just leave; they're subject to the Israeli Closure Policy, which means Israel controls and restricts their movements into and out of the region.

 

[Father Heathen]

I don’t really agree,

Take it up with Jesus.

If Hamas is setting up a missile site next to your house and you know that Israel would respond against that missile site, would you:

1) Stop them;

How?

2) Join them;

Nope.

3) or leave the ares.

To where?

 

[Kenny]

No, I wouldn't.

I have no idea how you think that comparison is appropriate. Are you comparing Palestinians to children and the IDF to their parents? Is that a comparison you want to make?

Do you contest the fact that Israel has been engaging in war crimes in Gaza and settler colonialism and mass murder on the west bank?

No… that isn’t the comparison. It is the hen and the egg. I’m not saying that all Israelis are saints… I’m saying that Hamas produced the egg.

 

[George-ananda]

My opinion is that in 2023 the terrorist organization Hamas (supported by Iran), is ultimately responsible for the suffering to Palestinian civilians caused by Israeli bombs.

 

[Kenny]

They have guns and bombs.


Tends to often be the only option other than dying for a lot of people.


Civilians in Gaza can't just leave; they're subject to the Israeli Closure Policy, which means Israel controls and restricts their movements into and out of the region.

So, basically, you can say that it is Hamas’ fault that they are casualties for shooting missiles from the door next to you.

Actually, one can leave to the other side of town until they finish shooting the missiles.

 

[Kenny]

Take it up with Jesus.

He already addressed the subject

How?

There are enough guns that you can get and take care of the situation.

Nope.

Good for you

To where?

Leave for about 10 city blocks, visit your brother or cousin, and come back when Israel silences the missiles.

 

[Orbit]

Maybe all the way to Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael? You could go back to Adam, Eve, Abel and Cain.

What a ridiculous statement.

 

[sun rise]

Maybe all the way to Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael? You could go back to Adam, Eve, Abel and Cain.

Without the Biblical reference, the area has seen almost continuous warfare historically. But given recorded instances of chimps going to war it's been part of nature as long as my family versus yours in the competition for food etc. Humans put a covering of religion and ideology over the animal us vs them but at the root it's our animal nature.

Given that Hamas publicly boasted that their goal is to repeat 10/7 and murder babies, rape women and kill everyone they need to be taken out.

But along with that Israel needs to change direction in how it treats non-Jews and stop treating non-Jewish Israeli citizens as second class citizens, stop settlements etc.

 

[InChrist]

Nobody here is defending/supporting Hamas, as far as I'm aware. We're talking about innocent civilians. Doing what makes Hamas bad also makes IDF bad. As has been repeatedly stated, two wrongs don't make a right. What would Jesus do? Remember that guy? Isn't your career based on his message?

Oh yes, people here are defending and supporting Hamas, whether they want to admit it or not. Israel’s goal is to root out Hamas. By ranting on and on against Israel, rather than supporting Israel in their goal of eliminating Hamas after their vicious, inhuman attack on October 7th, which they proudly filmed and put on display for all the world to see … sure looks like support of Hamas.


“IDF spokesman Brig.-Gen. Daniel Hagari released a statement in English, reiterating that the IDF is at war with Hamas, not the civilians of Gaza.

“I want to make something very clear,” Hagari stated. “Israel is at war with Hamas. Israel is not at war with the civilians in Gaza.”

“We are facilitating the entry of water, food, medicine and medical equipment into Gaza. Millions of liters of water per day flow from Israel into Gaza. Israel is not at war with the civilians of Gaza.”

Day 28: Fight intensifies as IDF kills Hamas commander during operations in encircled Gaza City

IDF spokesman Hagari: ‘We are at war with Hamas, not the citizens of Gaza’

allisrael.com

 

[Kenny]

What a ridiculous statement.

As appropriate as what you suggested.

 

[Kenny]

Without the Biblical reference, the area has seen almost continuous warfare historically. But given recorded instances of chimps going to war it's been part of nature as long as my family versus yours in the competition for food etc. Humans put a covering of religion and ideology over the animal us vs them but at the root it's our animal nature.

Given that Hamas publicly boasted that their goal is to repeat 10/7 and murder babies, rape women and kill everyone they need to be taken out.

But along with that Israel needs to change direction in how it treats non-Jews and stop treating non-Jewish Israeli citizens as second class citizens, stop settlements etc.

Agreed that non-citizens should be respected. I don’t know the specifics of non-Jewish Israeli citizens being treated but they should also be treated as any other citizen.

 

[Brickjectivity]

But along with that Israel needs to change direction in how it treats non-Jews and stop treating non-Jewish Israeli citizens as second class citizens, stop settlements etc.

If they stop shelling Israel I agree. If not then Israel should continue gradual encroachment. Peace is the goal not continual warfare.