An Issue Of Valuing The Lives Of Others

[Mock Turtle]

Why? I don't doubt their honesty.
But coverage of the victims is spotty.

I've watched quite a lot of interviews and especially of those in Gaza, and no interviewer understandably perhaps has asked any questions regarding Hamas - and this being from the media that does try to get both sides of this conflict.

It all depends upon which news sources one consumes.
But generally, there is a crack in the carefully crafted
facade of Israel's PR machine.

I think this is bias. There is as much PR coming from the anti-Israeli side too. The hospital rocket - which even Al Jazeera at first claimed came from Israel changed it's mind later, and where the damage seen just didn't correspond with an Israeli missile. Also, there is much of this too:

Image of Palestinian carrying children out of rubble shows signs of AI

An image of a man carrying children through rubble has been shared tens of thousands of times in social media posts linking it to Israel's bombing of the Gaza Strip, which the Hamas-run health ministry says has killed more than 3,700 children. But experts say the image shows signs of artificial...

factcheck.afp.com

An image of a man carrying children through rubble has been shared tens of thousands of times on social media in posts linking it to the bombing of Gaza amid a war triggered by a deadly Hamas attack on Israel. But experts say the image shows signs of artificial intelligence and it was not published by news organizations with photographers in the region.

 

[Revoltingest]

I've watched quite a lot of interviews and especially of those in Gaza, and no interviewer understandably perhaps has asked any questions regarding Hamas - and this being from the media that does try to get both sides of this conflict.

I think this is bias. There is as much PR coming from the anti-Israeli side too. The hospital rocket - which even Al Jazeera at first claimed came from Israel changed it's mind later, and where the damage seen just didn't correspond with an Israeli missile. Also, there is much of this too:

Image of Palestinian carrying children out of rubble shows signs of AI

An image of a man carrying children through rubble has been shared tens of thousands of times in social media posts linking it to Israel's bombing of the Gaza Strip, which the Hamas-run health ministry says has killed more than 3,700 children. But experts say the image shows signs of artificial...

factcheck.afp.com

A bias in favor of human rights & justice
is driving the failure of Israel's PR machine.

 

[Mock Turtle]

A bias in favor of human rights & justice
is driving the failure of Israel's PR machine.

Well it is pretty obvious Israel can't win any PR war especially with the numbers being killed, but I'm in no position to know if such could be avoided.

 

[Kenny]

People don't proclaim they don't value Muslims lives
as much Christians & Jews. Tis their conduct that speaks
volumes about inhumanity towards lesser people, ie, Muslims.

OHHHHHH! It’s your viewpoint! Got it. Love how you throw in Christian, Jews and US all together! Reminds me of Little Satan and Big Satan.

 

[sun rise]

4) What should have Israel done after the atrocities were committed?

Bingo. And of course a good question is what should Israel do after the war.

 

[Kenny]

Here it is, ladies and gentlemen. Hamas is showing the oppressed Palestinians thier huge hearts of compassion and care for their oppressed people

Hamas is hoarding vast amounts of fuel as Gaza hospitals run low, U.S. officials say

U.N. officials warned that aid groups, water treatment plants and bakeries in the enclave are running dangerously low on fuel.

www.nbcnews.com

Makes one wonder who really is the oppressor… Israel or Hamas!

“While fuel is critical to easing the humanitarian crisis, Hamas has already demonstrated its willingness to steal fuel and humanitarian supplies from civilians,” said Jonathan Lord, a senior fellow and the director of the Middle East security program at the Center for New American Security in Washington.

“It’s yet another dilemma facing Israel and the international community,” he added, “stemming from Hamas’ willingness to put Gaza’s civilians in harm’s way to enable itself.”

 

[Sargonski]

Ethnic cleansing would require moving a million people out of Gaza and replacing them.

Which is the point .. of the operation .. and that you can glean from the mainstream .. no investigative journalism required . What part of "Evacuate Northern Gaza Notice" day after day failed to hit your radar ? .. referring to the Palestinians as "animals" - the dehumanization tropes are no secret either .. apologizing for the "Collective Punishment" that they have been waging .. and not the "Im Sorry" kind of apologizing .

Ethnic Cleansing has been going on for 70 years .. Normally it is the IDF doing the Hamas Style Atrocities .. the regular incursions here .. there ..and everywhere .. Killing Palestinians had achieved the status of a Sport prior to the "Animals" -- Their words not mine --- breaching the cage .. Gaza regularely likened to an Open Air Concentration camp.

Thats the kind of Ethnic Cleansing .. and is stated purpose of the Zionists to "Cleanse Land" .. as per the Good Book Deut 32:8 -- a proper reading is required .. something other than a modern Bible which horribly bastardizes the passage to the point of no recognition..

You need to get out of the bubble more friend - it is not like you don't have "MAJOR" figures in every walk .. calling out this War Crime - Crime against humanity .. how can you be this oblivious sans only sourcing from the state sponsored propaganda teet ?

It would not please most people living in Israel. In the news you can see that Israelis are opposed to that idea.

Israel is where Christian zionists put many Jews. We would create the scene for Jesus to return by recreating ancient Israel. Most of the Jewish people thought this was ridiculous, however they needed a place to go.

The main problem seems to be that aid is not used to build up the place and help people get established. Instead its invested in tunnels and bombs. The people aren't allowed to protest against Hamas. Israel does allow protest against itself. It does this all the time. Lots of people protest against Israel. Its perfectly safe. Even now people are doing it.

The rest of your post is more ridiculousness - some of the morst ardent voices calling out the "Ethnic \Clensing" are Jews - and Israeli's .. but, these folks are not in power .. the hard-line extremists are in power and it is with great difficulty that one does not use that famous WW2 term that you were hinting at with the WW2 analogy .. cept the goblin Oppressor in this story is the Neocon Zionists.

"Lots of People Protest in Israel" - Really .. is that so Brother Brick .. but clearly you haven't been listening to these folks calling out the Ethnic Cleansing apartheit State .. too worried about the next Spelling Bee ..

"Its perfectly Safe" .. for Israeli's to Protest .. Why would it not be .. there are not Palestinian Snipers regularly patroling .. and randomly shooting people .. as well as targeted snipes... the Media - Medics - and other groups they don't like.

It is anything but safe for the Palestinians to Protest .. the IDF using such as target practice .. the latest funny funny is the snipers take out the ankles of the protestors .. "Aim to Maim" .. disturbing stuff .. tthat clearly you have never heard but no surprise from those on the inside of the Bubble .. another favorite tactic is after leveling a many story building full of civilians .. is to then take out the medics that arrive on the Scene to help .. thats a sweet one don't you think .. really smart .. just blow up a building and those medics come running .. can pick em off lik fish in a barrel ..

"Its Perfectly Safe" -- who is feeding this completely backwards la la land perspective to the masses ? The reverse of reality ..as the Palestinians Protesting is one of the most dangerous things one could do.. or .. put on a Press Clothes and go Protest .. they target your whole family and relatives for that exercize .. so not just unsafe for you .. for your near and extended family.

This is the land opposite to reality on which your perspective sits ? Now go learn the Golden Rule .. told you Matt 7:12 .. get back to me when you figure out what a war crime is.. crime against humanity ... "Ethnic Cleansing" No wonder you didn't know was EC as you had absolutly no idea about the last 70 year history of violence, atrocity and depravity it seems.

 

[Revoltingest]

Well it is pretty obvious Israel can't win any PR war especially with the numbers being killed, but I'm in no position to know if such could be avoided.

It depends upon what constitutes winning.
If they get away with war crimes, & take
Gaza with USA's support, that's a win...
....for them.

 

[Revoltingest]

OHHHHHH! It’s your viewpoint! Got it. Love how you throw in Christian, Jews and US all together!

That's because they're largely unified
for Israel, & against Palestinians.

 

[Brickjectivity]

@Sargonski I think in the face of piracy by Hamas that the humanity of Hamas has been momentarily called into question by angry people. We have just now seen only a tiny measure of the hatred that Israel's enemies have prepared for her. The enemies wish more babies had been tortured and killed, more women raped, more people burned alive. The hatred and barbaric cruelty of Hamas does not make them inhuman but rather very human, so calling them inhuman is incorrect. There is nothing as satisfying as doing dark deeds while feeling righteous about it. This is the barbarity we see in the attack by Hamas, but it is a very human barbarity. As a child I never would have guessed such evil existed either in the world or in myself, but as I grew older and became aware of what was human I was stunned.

The thread accuses Jews and Christians of presuming Muslims to be lesser humans. I think an immature person usually thinks his or her group is better than others, but this is true for all people. Also in every group, at least 1/5 of the people are not very bright. About 20% of people probably don't think well and will run their mouth talking nonsense about others. But on the whole I don't think Christians consider Muslims to be lesser humans. I do think that Christians in the West are mostly ignorant about Muslims.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Here it is, ladies and gentlemen. The oppressed Palestinians showing their huge hearts of compassion and care for their (supposedly) oppressed people

Your wording talks about "[T]he oppressed Palestinians," but then you link an article and quote an excerpt talking about Hamas.

Equating the Palestinian people wholesale with Hamas strikes me as remarkably dangerous and demonizing. It is barely different at all from equating all Israelis with the violent extremists who have killed Palestinians in various past incidents.

Many people have personal stakes and people they love and care about in Israel and Palestine. Demonizing the entire population of either or equating them with violent extremists is beyond unhelpful and incendiary.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

As in - Israel made us do this even though we knew the result would be death for so many Palestinians and probably a lot more than all the Israelis we killed? After all, these civilians are of no use to us fighters. Lovely bunch of people.

I have yet to see a single person here claim Hamas are lovely. The point is that their actions do not justify the retaliatory violence and war crimes of the IDF against the civilians of Gaza.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Here it is, ladies and gentlemen. The oppressed Palestinians showing their huge hearts of compassion and care for their (supposedly) oppressed people

Hamas is hoarding vast amounts of fuel as Gaza hospitals run low, U.S. officials say

U.N. officials warned that aid groups, water treatment plants and bakeries in the enclave are running dangerously low on fuel.

www.nbcnews.com

Equating Palestinians and Hamas is disgusting. That's like equating the war crimes of the IDF with Jewish people. It's just pure bigotry, and I expect you to apologise and correct yourself.

Edit: Kenny has since amended this post.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Your wording talks about "[T]he oppressed Palestinians," but then you link an article and quote an excerpt talking about Hamas.

Equating the Palestinian people wholesale with Hamas strikes me as remarkably dangerous and demonizing. It is barely different at all from equating all Israelis with the violent extremists who have killed Palestinians in various past incidents.

Many people have personal stakes and people they love and care about in Israel and Palestine. Demonizing the entire population of either or equating them with violent extremists is beyond unhelpful and incendiary.

I'm not sure this is what was intended, but simply that Hamas are essentially as guilty for the deaths in Gaza as the Israelis - by their actions in attacking Israel in the first place (big time, given they must have known the response), by their hiding amongst the community (being rather callous), by making it hard for Israel to attack them without causing civilian casualties, by not having any plan to make sure the civilians were safe, and by perhaps as mentioned simply keeping supplies for themselves. Even if this is all understandable as war tactics.

 

[Mock Turtle]

I have yet to see a single person here claim Hamas are lovely. The point is that their actions do not justify the retaliatory violence and war crimes of the IDF against the civilians of Gaza.

I just think that blame should be apportioned as to where it belongs. I'm in no position to know if Israel had other options.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I just think that blame should be apportioned as to where it belongs. I'm in no position to know if Israel had other options.

But I believe this logic is being applied selectively, and I don't believe you can excuse war crimes on the basis of not knowing if there were other options. There is always the option to not commit war crimes. The moment we excuse it, we provide a pretext for both Hamas and the IDF to continue to commit atrocities against civilian populations.

 

[Kenny]

Equating Palestinians and Hamas is disgusting. That's like equating the war crimes of the IDF with Jewish people. It's just pure bigotry, and I expect you to apologise and correct yourself.

Error in the first line and will correct.,. but if you read the whole thing, you will find the intent and that being:

"Makes one wonder who really is the oppressor… Israel or Hamas!"

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Error in the first line and will correct.,. but if you read the whole thing, you will find the intent and that being:

"Makes one wonder who really is the oppressor… Israel or Hamas!"

Both. Both can be oppressive forces whose actions disproportionately negatively affect innocent civilians on both sides.

 

[Kenny]

Both. Both can be oppressive forces whose actions disproportionately negatively affect innocent civilians on both sides.

True… but Hamas is the hen that produced the egg. (size proportion done on purpose)

 

[ImmortalFlame]

True… but Hamas is the hen that produced the egg. (size proportion done on purpose)

Well, that's a matter of perspective. Israel has been oppressing and committing war crimes on the people of Gaza for decades, not to mention the continued expansionism and murder on the west bank. If we are of the mind that retaliatory violence against civilians is justified by prior atrocities, we have no grounds on which to condemn what Hamas did, and we certainly cannot say that they cast the first stone.

Personally, I'm not a tit-for-tat kind of guy. Just because you have been wronged doesn't necessarily justify any response. The key is proportionality, intent and effect. This is why I can condemn Hamas for their barbarism in response to historical oppression while also condemning Israel's response to terrorist atrocities by committing war crimes. It's not that ANY response was unwarranted, but that these specific responses are unjustified, disproportionate and overwhelmingly negatively impact civilians.