An Issue Of Valuing The Lives Of Others

[ImmortalFlame]

Which is why you ignore the issue. You are trying to “shame him” with irrelevancy while unwittingly bringing shame on yourself

Uh huh.

Weird how you have never once acknowledged Israeli war crimes. But, yep, we are the ones ignoring the issue. Totally makes sense.

Keep making apologies for war crimes.

 

[Kenny]

IDF tries to let Palestinians out…. Hamas uses it as an opportunity to attack

 

[Kenny]

Hamas uses hosptals (human shields) to house their command center

I’m sure to then blame Israel if innocent people are killed and others then say “WAR CRIMES"

IDF: Hamas’s terror command center built under Gaza’s main hospital - JNS.org

The Israeli military shares detailed information on how Hamas has turned hospitals into terror command centers and hideouts.

www.jns.org

 

[Kenny]

Now you're just lying. I have done neither of those things.

Now I expect two apologies.

Show me where you have given Israel the right to self defense and where you acknowledged where the Arab countries and Hamas have the destruction of Israel as their motto.

If you show it, I will be happy to apologize.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Hamas uses hosptals (human shields) to house their command center

I’m sure to then blame Israel if innocent people are killed

IDF: Hamas’s terror command center built under Gaza’s main hospital - JNS.org

The Israeli military shares detailed information on how Hamas has turned hospitals into terror command centers and hideouts.

www.jns.org

Well, I guess that justifies war crimes against civilians, then.

 

[Bthoth]

Again… another post of what appears to me as anti-semitic positions or simply media-brainwashed.

The braiwashed defend israel without condition

When Israel offered a two state solutions and the Arab nations didn’t agree… what did the Arab nations try to do?

Offered?

What gives them the right to hold the power?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Show me where you have given Israel the right to self defense and where you acknowledged where the Arab countries and Hamas have the destruction of Israel as their motto.

If you show it, I will be happy to apologize.

That's not how this works. You claimed I actively IGNORED the position of Hamas and DENY Israel's right to self defense. It's YOUR job to show me doing those things.

Or, alternatively, be an adult and apologize, and avoid making such ridiculous, unfounded statements in future.

 

[Kenny]

That's not how this works. You claimed I actively IGNORED the position of Hamas and DENY Israel's right to self defense. It's YOUR job to show me doing those things.

Your silence is deafening. And I thought you wanted an apology

 

[Kenny]

The effort of IDF to help humanitarian support efforts

Hamas shows their insensitivity and use of human shields

 

[Revoltingest]

I would expect no different answer from one who ignores the atrocities of the incursion against Israel

We see how you deflect from your accusations.
Introduce a new topic.

Let's say you're honest & correct that I ignore Hamas's atrocities.
This would make your silence far worse because you ignore the
crimes committed by Israel...now 10,000+ Gaza deaths (half are
infants & children) per BBC.
Your posts support my claim that Christians & Jews tend to not
value the lives of innocent Muslims.

I'm a heathen. Muslim, Christian, & Jew have no pecking order
for me. No one is "God's Chosen". No one is better than the
other. Everyone's fundamentalist is a danger to others.
So all lives are of equal value. Israel's murdering of a vast
number of innocent Muslims...far more than Hamas killed,
is the greater evil. Especially with destroying Gaza so that
it becomes unlivable, & hundreds of thousands are evicted
from their homes.

 

[Stevicus]

Again… another post of what appears to me as anti-semitic positions or simply media-brainwashed.

When Israel offered a two state solutions and the Arab nations didn’t agree… what did the Arab nations try to do?

I don't think it's anti-Semitic to oppose Israel's government or its policies. I think it would really depend on motives and context. I don't think it's a matter of media brainwashing either, since I've seen quite a range of opinions in the media - not just now, but over the course of my lifetime.

In the end, it doesn't matter what race, color, ethnicity, religion, or nationality one may be, if a government, military force, political faction, or individuals acting on their behalf go too far and commit atrocities, then it's fair comment to call them out on it. It doesn't mean they're against them for who they are, but for what they do.

Similar accusations have been leveled against Americans who oppose the US government and military's actions over the centuries. They might say they're "anti-American" or "unpatriotic," although there are far more colorful terms I've heard. They said things about the protesters against the Vietnam War. Even after 9/11, while war fever gripped America, there were still a few who wondered why we were bombing Afghanistan and Iraq. But most people were in a salty, warlike mood, so they were ready to bomb just about anybody. And anyone who didn't want to bomb them back to the stone age might as well have been consorting with the enemy.

I'm seeing shades of that here, and that's where it may be problematic to take a kind of either/or approach to what is a very long and complicated history.

 

[Kenny]

We see how you deflect from your accusations.
Introduce a new topic.

“Deflect” is an interesting word… maybe so that you don’t have to address your heart?

Let's say you're honest & correct that I ignore Hamas's atrocities.
This would make your silence far worse because you ignore the
crimes committed by Israel...now 10,000+ Gaza deaths (half are
infants & children) per BBC.
Your posts support my claim that Christians & Jews tend to not
value the lives of innocent Muslims.

And here is where you are completely off base at the expense at looking at your position...

I will be the first that will say every life is important no matter where they are born. The whole of the Gospel is “For God so loved THE WORLD” - no exception.

You ignore the difference (which I have stated before)

Hamas purposefully targets the innocent and will hide among the innocent - Israel purposefully targets the soldiers and not the innocent with the unfortunate reality that Hamas will hide where school are, hospitals, parks et al. (Do you have a better way that works?)

How does BBC get their information? From Hamas?

I'm a heathen. Muslim, Christian, & Jew have no pecking order
for me. No one is "God's Chosen".

Then you misunderstand what “God’s Chosen” means. It doesn’t mean that the rest of the world isn’t important rather it is the rest of the world is important so a group was chosen to spread God’s message on how important they are - not that they are less. Thus “love you neighbor as yourself”.

Some are chosen to be doctors, some businessmen, some school teachers - et al... not that others are less but that others may be served thus “He who desires to be the greatest of all, be the servant of all"

No one is better than the
other. Everyone's fundamentalist is a danger to others.
So all lives are of equal value. Israel's murdering of a vast
number of innocent Muslims...far more than Hamas killed,
is the greater evil. Especially with destroying Gaza so that
it becomes unlivable, & hundreds of thousands are evicted
from their homes.

So we have a difference of “interpretation and definitions”.

 

[Kenny]

I don't think it's anti-Semitic to oppose Israel's government or its policies. I think it would really depend on motives and context. I don't think it's a matter of media brainwashing either, since I've seen quite a range of opinions in the media - not just now, but over the course of my lifetime.

Agreed...

Although I do believe that media has influenced people to an agenda instead of “reporting”.

In the end, it doesn't matter what race, color, ethnicity, religion, or nationality one may be, if a government, military force, political faction, or individuals acting on their behalf go too far and commit atrocities, then it's fair comment to call them out on it. It doesn't mean they're against them for who they are, but for what they do.

Agreed… and certainly we can say that all governments have committed atrocities - Israel included

But in context of today’s war, I think the effort of Israel is to stop atrocities and not commit atrocities

 

[Kenny]

Does actions speak louder than all of our words?

MSN

IDF: Gaza resident says Hamas preventing evacuations; thousands return north

Army intelligence officer speaks with Gazan, urging him to head to south of Palestinian enclave, but man says terror group is blocking roads

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[ImmortalFlame]

You ignore the difference (which I have stated before)

Hamas purposefully targets the innocent and will hide among the innocent - Israel purposefully targets the soldiers and not the innocent with the unfortunate reality that Hamas will hide where school are, hospitals, parks et al. (Do you have a better way that works?)

Then please explain the explicit war crimes and murder of the people on the west bank, where there is no Hamas.

How does BBC get their information? From Hamas?

Are you seriously doubting the numbers?

Then you misunderstand what “God’s Chosen” means. It doesn’t mean that the rest of the world isn’t important rather it is the rest of the world is important so a group was chosen to spread God’s message on how important they are - not that they are less. Thus “love you neighbor as yourself”.

And what part of that message justifies killing your neighbour, stealing their land, then continuing to persecute and murder the descendants of your neighbour?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

But in context of today’s war, I think the effort of Israel is to stop atrocities and not commit atrocities

Again, what Israel has done to Gaza counts as a war crime. That's an atrocity. And what they have been doing on the west bank for decades is, too, despite the absence of Hamas in the region.

You accuse others of ignoring the crimes of Hamas, and yet here you are bald-facedly pretending that Israel is "trying so hard" to no commit atrocities while they openly commit atrocities. And when people acknowledge this, you imply they're anti-Semites.

 

[Kenny]

Then please explain the explicit war crimes and murder of the people on the west bank, where there is no Hamas.

If there has been murders in the West Bank… there should be a court martial

If people are killed because they are attacking Israeli soldiers, it is an act of self defense.

Are you seriously doubting the numbers?

Hmmm…. you didn’t answer the question.

Let’s make it more realistic… are children and non-combatants killed as Israel targets combatants? yes… truly unfortunate and we should do everything we can to help them escape.

And what part of that message justifies killing your neighbour, stealing their land, then continuing to persecute and murder the descendants of your neighbour?

If your neighbor has strapped himself with a bomb and is heading in your direction in the name of “I want to go to Heaven” - it is justified IMV

If someone is stealing land, it is wrong. If someone wants to exterminate Jewish people and take your land, I would try to stop it. If you are taught from age 3 to hate your Jewish neighbors, kill your Jewish neighbors, and take your Jewish neighbors how, it is justified to stop them. Do you deny that is what they are doing?

Show me one Jewish school that teaches their children to hate Muslims.

 

[Kenny]

Again, what Israel has done to Gaza counts as a war crime.

At this point, personal opinion and personal interpretation from one who isn’t on the ground and actually knows what is happeniing

 

[ImmortalFlame]

If there has been murders in the West Bank… there should be a court martial

If people are killed because they are attacking Israeli soldiers, it is an act of self defense.

See how you did that? You're implying that people DESERVED the war crimes inflicted on them.

Hmmm…. you didn’t answer the question.

Let’s make it more realistic… are children and non-combatants killed as Israel targets combatants? yes… truly unfortunate and we should do everything we can to help them escape.

They're not exclusively targeting combatants. They've previously blockaded the entire city. They're not above doing things they know disproportionately affect civilians. They just don't care.

If your neighbor has strapped himself with a bomb and is heading in your direction in the name of “I want to go to Heaven” - it is justified IMV

The civilians aren't terrorists, and you should feel ashamed for suggesting such.

If someone is stealing land, it is wrong.

Good.

So, are you gonna condemn Israel for it?

If someone wants to exterminate Jewish people and take your land, I would try to stop it. If you are taught from age 3 to hate your Jewish neighbors, kill your Jewish neighbors, and take your Jewish neighbors how, it is justified to stop them. Do you deny that is what they are doing?

Nope.

It's not a justification for what Israel is doing. That's my point. "They hate us" does not therefore justify "Let's continue killing them and enacting war crimes on them."

Show me one Jewish school that teaches their children to hate Muslims.

Irrelevant to the argument. Every single school in Palestine could teach their children that Jewish people are subhuman. It doesn't make bombing their homes and killing their children justified.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

At this point, personal opinion and personal interpretation from one who isn’t on the ground and actually knows what is happeniing

Not a personal opinion. It's what they've been doing.

Do you believe that collective punishment and cutting off food, water, energy and resources to millions of civilians isn't a war crime?