An Issue Of Valuing The Lives Of Others

[Sargonski]

They are destroying exits not tunnels. It is strategy. The exits are hidden in buildings. There are a million or more people in Gaza, and contrary to what you say they are not being removed. Nobody has kicked them out. Nobody has slaughtered them. This is about getting the 200 hostages back and is legitimate.

"Nobody has slaughtered them" - I don't know what conflict you are talking about but in Gaza the number of slaughtered children is 3500 so far .. and they were slaughtered by "somebody" .. the same sombody who told the gaza's to leave.

You don't seem to understand the situation .. never mind have an understanding of legitimacy.

 

[Sargonski]

No, they are blocking the entrances. That's another way to handle a tunnel.
See here (particularly the section I highlighted):

Israel targets Hamas’s labyrinth of tunnels under Gaza

Palestinian militants are thought to have built hundreds of kilometres of tunnels underneath Gaza.

www.bbc.com

One does not need to level a multi story apartment block full of people that is nowhere near an entrance to a tunnel to block the entrance to a tunnel .. nor does the excuse "Oh .. we were blocking the Tunnel" justify Genocide and Ethnic Cleansing to begin with.

 

[Harel13]

One does not need to level a multi story apartment block full of people that is nowhere near an entrance to a tunnel to block the entrance to a tunnel .. nor does the excuse "Oh .. we were blocking the Tunnel" justify Genocide and Ethnic Cleansing to begin with.

Strange way to dodge reality. @Brickjectivity pointed out to you that some of the buildings are bombed to block entrances to tunnels located at the bottom of those buildings and you switch to talking about buildings that aren't anywhere near tunnels. Do you deny that there are such tunnel entrances at the bottom of some of the Gazan buildings?

There are, of course, undeniably, other reasons to bomb buildings. If one of the floors is a Hamas warehouse, or a Hamas HQ, or one of the top Hamas generals lives there, etc.

 

[Kenny]

A criminal animalistic report on what happened to Israeli’s on 10/7

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1719504869164532154

 

[Revoltingest]

This is clearly a biased source. That needs to be considered. Did you consider that? Why would you trust this number?

All sources are biased, including Israeli sources.
Are you claiming that the death toll is actually
much less than 8,000?

 

[Lyndon]

Maybe the Isrealis exaggerated their death toll, I wouldn't put it past them

 

[Revoltingest]

A criminal animalistic report on what happened to Israeli’s on 10/7

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1719504869164532154

Your post advances the Israeli tactic similar to the
"parade of horribles", ie, distract from one side's
larger sins by pointing to outrageously bad things
done by the other.
Why do this?
To distract from the massive death & injury count
among Palestinians from the Israeli bombing
campaign, which is now 8,700 per the BBC this
morning. It's also to de-legitimize Palestinian
complaints about decades of being oppressed
by Israel, which is the source of Hamas's power.

 

[Kenny]

Your post advances the Israeli tactic similar to the
"parade of horribles", ie, distract from one side's
larger sins by pointing to outrageously bad things
done by the other.
Why do this?
To distract from the massive death & injury count
among Palestinians from the Israeli bombing
campaign, which is now 8,700 per the BBC this
morning. It's also to de-legitimize Palestinian
complaints about decades of being oppressed
by Israel, which is the source of Hamas's power.

I wonder if you would be saying the same thing about how horrible the US / United Kingdom were as 6 million Jews were exterminated! Something along the lines of “a distraction to the plight of the Germans”. After all, the slitting open of a pregnant mother and then stabbing the baby is quite understandable.

 

[Revoltingest]

I wonder if you would be saying the same thing about how horrible the US / United Kingdom were as 6 million Jews were exterminated!

More whataboutism with an ad hominem twist, eh.

Something along the lines of “a distraction to the plight of the Germans”.

Perhaps you're unaware that Jews weren't oppressing the Germans.
So your analogy is bogus.

After all, the slitting open of a pregnant mother and then stabbing the baby is quite understandable.

Yes, this matters.
Do you approve of Israel's killing 8,700+ Palestinians,
including babies & children? Is it OK because they're
bombed, not stabbed?

 

[Brickjectivity]

There are tunnels all under Gaza, and it is known that at least some hostages are kept deep down in these tunnels which have many, many exits. Bombing the buildings closes exits, which potentially helps when getting the hostages out. Turning off the water and electricity also is strategic and can help locate the hostages, depending. It may also cause Hamas to move them above ground. Its all about getting the hostages.

Simply not True -- laying waste to the region makes it more difficult for Israel to fight Hamas .. and has nothing to do with getting the hostages. the Massive bombing going on and leveling of buildings full of people has everything to do with collective punishment and cleansing of the land.

So they are destroying tunnels to make it more difficult to fight Hamas? How stupid they must be to throw away all of their academy training and the lessons from previous fighting. There's no such thing as a strategy with IDF. They're just sealing those hostages in with no plan to get them out?

'Cleansing the land' sounds so weird and ritualistic, like something cooked up by El Ron Hubbard. The tunnels have too many exits, and the exits are hidden in buildings. Its strategy.

They are not destroying the tunnels by leveling buildings .. you are misinformed or making things up.

Ethnic Cleansing --- weird and ritualistic perhaps -- but this is not Sci Fi mate

"Nobody has slaughtered them" - I don't know what conflict you are talking about but in Gaza the number of slaughtered children is 3500 so far .. and they were slaughtered by "somebody" .. the same sombody who told the gaza's to leave.

You don't seem to understand the situation .. never mind have an understanding of legitimacy.

There are a million people in Gaza. No ethnic cleansing has been performed, nor any genocide (claimed by Lyndon) by Israel

However Israel has captured 1000+ Hamas fighters in raids in Gaza, West Bank and East Jerusalem. Israel claims to have broken Hamas command structure. Perhaps life can improve for people in Gaza after this, and perhaps it will improve PA's authority in West Bank, too. Increased stability would be an improvement and very positive.

 

[Kenny]

More whataboutism with an ad hominem twist, eh.

Perhaps you're unaware that Jews weren't oppressing the Germans.
So your analogy is bogus.

Yes, this matters.
Do you approve of Israel's killing 8,700+ Palestinians,
including babies & children? Is it OK because they're
bombed, not stabbed?

And the Israelis aren’t oppressing the Palestinians...

If the Palestinians would lay down their weapons we would have two States at peace. If the Israelis would lay down their weapons, we would have mass murder (a quote not my own but so true)

The Palestinians came on purpose to kill the innocent. The Israelis are just trying to stop Hamas.

I’m pretty sure, by your statements, you would be on the top of the line of saying “How horrible the US is for killing babies in Germany” - as if the babies were the target.

 

[Lyndon]

bunch of Arab haters, no different from Anti Semitism

 

[Sargonski]

Strange way to dodge reality. @Brickjectivity pointed out to you that some of the buildings are bombed to block entrances to tunnels located at the bottom of those buildings and you switch to talking about buildings that aren't anywhere near tunnels. Do you deny that there are such tunnel entrances at the bottom of some of the Gazan buildings?

There are, of course, undeniably, other reasons to bomb buildings. If one of the floors is a Hamas warehouse, or a Hamas HQ, or one of the top Hamas generals lives there, etc.

I didn't deny there were tunnels .... what is pure nonsense is the idea that every building leveled was a tunnel entrance. What I said was this was not an excuse for leveling a multi story building full of people .. what part of "war crime" did you not understand ?

 

[Sargonski]

There are a million people in Gaza. No ethnic cleansing has been performed, nor any genocide (claimed by Lyndon) by Israel

However Israel has captured 1000+ Hamas fighters in raids in Gaza, West Bank and East Jerusalem. Israel claims to have broken Hamas command structure. Perhaps life can improve for people in Gaza after this, and perhaps it will improve PA's authority in West Bank, too. Increased stability would be an improvement and very positive.

Of course it is Genocide and ethnic cleansing .. according to every analyst that matters .. 3500 dead children so far. How many children did Hamas Kill in its Terrorist attack ?

 

[Orbit]

Let's read about it. What can you bring to the discussion that is unbiased? Or, perhaps bring something that is known to be biased and we can read it and discuss it granting that it's biased.



It has nothing to do with Netanyahu. Those were offered while Ben Gurion and Rabin were prime ministers. In both instances the Palestians would not recongize Israel as a state nor roll back their aspirations to push all the Jews into the sea. Lovely, right?

The Ottomans ruled with an iron fist. The League of Nations / UN comes in and tries to institute something else. Share the land? Israel says yes, the Palestinians and the Arab nations? Nope. If the "might=right" mentality pre UN was maintained, then Israel has won the right to rule that land. But, they've tried repeatedly to work with their neighbors.



The Palestinians ( and actually the surrounding arab nations ) had their chance, Multiple chances. The terrorism is not going to stop. Yes, it was a mistake to stop fighting the war for independence before obtaining a peace treaty that firmly and undeniably established defensible borders.

Are you proposing to repeat the same mistake again and again? The fighting should end prematurely, before a defensiblle border has been established by a peace treaty? That is only going to lead to more and more conflict. It needs to be finished. And I don't think Israel should stop, until its finished.

Defensible borders, undeniably established, in writing, via a treaty with the Palestinians. If they won't agree, then push them into Jordan. They attacked first. They made a huge mistake attacking the way they did. That's it. It's war.

Here are a couple of links that should be useful:

A timeline of Israel and Palestine’s complicated history

To understand the Israel-Hamas war, you have to understand how we got here.

www.vox.com

Israel-Gaza war in maps and charts: Live tracker

The latest death toll stands at 44,493 Palestinians and 1,139 people killed in Israel since October 7, 2023.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[sun rise]

bunch of Arab haters, no different from Anti Semitism

We are sadly seeing life imitate art on the part of some. I have no issue with Israel taking Hamas out - it's necessary. But there are some who have become what they hated in others.

 

[SkepticThinker]

So why does the world in general allow Hamas to continue to exist?

I don't know. What do you suggest we do?

And so what if lots of Palestinians are young. Why don't the adults vote Hamas out? And if your answer is because Hamas won't allow a vote, then I'll circle back to my first question.

So what if they're young and stuck with a government that doesn't represent them and are now being killed by the thousands? They're screwed, that's what. It doesn't make them combatants. Almost half of my boss' entire family were killed over the weekend in Palestine, including several young children and many women whom I assure you are not combatants in any sense of the word. Though they might be after this. They haven't much else to lose at this point.

Your point I was responding to, was this, "the claim that Palestinians are noncombatants seems like a stretch to me, they voted for Hamas to lead them and Hamas was very clear on its agenda."

 

[Brickjectivity]

Of course it is Genocide and ethnic cleansing .. according to every analyst that matters .. 3500 dead children so far. How many children did Hamas Kill in its Terrorist attack ?

It is a deadly military response to an attack. Should USA in WWII not have bombed any targets? We had to bomb Berlin. To win. This is the same situation where targets are a necessity. To win.

Don't reduce the meaning of genocide to meaningless drivel by using it inappropriately.

 

[Lyndon]

But experts today say the bombing of civilian areas in WWII did nothing to help the war

 

[SkepticThinker]

It is a deadly military response to an attack. Should USA in WWII not have bombed any targets? We had to bomb Berlin. To win. This is the same situation where targets are a necessity. To win.

Don't reduce the meaning of genocide to meaningless drivel by using it inappropriately.

For starters, I would hope that we're not still using military tactics from 78 years ago, that are questionable, at best. And immoral, at worst.