Anti-gay baker now takes stand against birthdays for trans people

[dianaiad]

Dude clearly believes in baking and serving cakes to the public or else he wouldn't have opened up such a business. Are the "hard work" Conservatives wanting to slack off, leaving us Lefties to say "do your damn job" and "get back to work?" He's more snowflaky than a snowflake wanting special treatment and privilege and permission to break the law.

IMO, the 'lefties' are all like that cartoon I saw once, one that really caught my eye and explained the whole paradigm.

It showed two men walking down the road. The conservative says "You know, we need to be kinder, more charitable, and give more to our fellow human beings."

the liberal says "Yes, you are quite right. You DO need to be kinder, more charitable, and give more to your fellow human beings." As he says this, he reaches into the back pocket of the conservative and pulls out his wallet.

It has long been my observation that the 'lefties' are incredibly concerned over the moral and ethical values of the nation, and do their level best to make certain that everybody else toes their line and agrees with their positions.

When they get a law passed, they pat themselves on the back and consider the job well done....and everybody ELSE is paying their price.



It's why I often remind people that the First amendment was not written to protect the freedoms of those who agree with us. It was written to protect the rights of those with whom we DISAGREE.

 

[dianaiad]

So, it is about the people, because one of the PEOPLE would have to be of the opposite sex.

Equal treatment. Isn't that what you demanded?

 

[dianaiad]

This sounds a whole like making excuses for poor behavior on the part of the baker.

I agree that his behavior is poor. I don't agree with it. I wouldn't behave as he did. I would bake the cake and be happy for the couple.

But this isn't about whether I approve. This is about whether he has the RIGHT to behave poorly.

I believe that he does.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It's why I often remind people that the First amendment was not written to protect the freedoms of those who agree with us. It was written to protect the rights of those with whom we DISAGREE.

Ever hear of the idea the Constitution was written with the intention of protecting the minority from the tyranny of the majority?

 

[sojourner]

....and you guys don't get it. A baker (or anybody else) who honestly believes that same sex marriages are wrong and that he honestly can't support it would refuse to bake a cake for one even if the participants are NOT gay.

Again: there’s no legal differentiation for “wedding.” The license and application and process are identical, no matter who’s getting married. Sounds like the guy is simply a common scofflaw.

So if one is gay and marries someone of the opposite sex, they get a cake

So it’s about who he thinks can or can’t get married.

That's a religious objection to the wedding, and equal treatment

No, it’s unequal treatment, because it normalizes one set of legal and moral behaviors over others. And he’s making the rules as a member of the “normal” group.

 

[dianaiad]

They can try, but if it can be proven in court there were no available appointment slots, or not enough supplies, the lawsuit will fail and probably be dismissed before it gets to court.

I guess you aren't aware of one of the more effective methods of extorting changes in law/business practices/whatever;

nuisance lawsuits. It doesn't matter, when one is a small business owner, whether that lawsuit has 'legs' or not. It still costs a great deal of time and money to deal with it.

.....and they are NEVER 'dismissed before they get to court." Especially when they are based around discrimination suits.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

When they get a law passed, they pat themselves on the back and consider the job well done....and everybody ELSE is paying their price.

Like this?

 

[sojourner]

You said: “Is gay marriage legal?
Can they marry and get their cake from someone who is NOT an idiot?

Then the baker's opinion is not being forced upon them.”

I say:
Just like black people can go to another diner, or ride another bus company, or go to another hospital...

 

[dianaiad]

Ever hear of the idea the Constitution was written with the intention of protecting the minority from the tyranny of the majority?

Yes. And in this case the baker is the minority.

Or haven't you been paying attention to what's been happening?

Just look at this thread. I'm here, the ONLY one taking my position. The majority is landing on me like a ton of bricks. I am absolutely the minority view here, and you aren't going to find many people...especially in any media....on the side of the baker.

That makes him definitely the minority.

 

[sojourner]

I agree that his behavior is poor. I don't agree with it. I wouldn't behave as he did. I would bake the cake and be happy for the couple.

But this isn't about whether I approve. This is about whether he has the RIGHT to behave poorly.

I believe that he does.

It’s still an excuse and not a reason. Excuses aren’t legally supportable.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yes. And in this case the baker is the minority.

A group that makes up ~70% of the population is not minority group.

 

[sojourner]

Yes. And in this case the baker is the minority.

Or haven't you been paying attention to what's been happening?

Just look at this thread. I'm here, the ONLY one taking my position. The majority is landing on me like a ton of bricks. I am absolutely the minority view here, and you aren't going to find many people...especially in any media....on the side of the baker.

That makes him definitely the minority.

No,it doesn’t. He’s a white, cis, straight, Christian Protestant. That places him SQUARELY in the majority of the power base in this country.

 

[dianaiad]

Like this?

Or this..

 

[dianaiad]

No,it doesn’t. He’s a white, cis, straight, Christian Protestant. That places him SQUARELY in the majority of the power base in this country.

If you think that, you have DEFINITELY not been paying attention. The last thing on earth you want to be if you wish to get anywhere in politics is a white, straight, "Christian" Protestant.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Except that he WOULD 'render"those services to them they wanted anything but a wedding cake. That makes the problem the event, not the people.

.............for instance, if one of those gay people came in and wanted a cake for his/her wedding to someone of the opposite sex, they'd get a cake.

Be careful about insisting that this is about them being gay. At the risk of the 'slippery slope' thing (and sometimes that slippery slope is real), a protected group can come into a business, demand some service that is refused for a legitimate reason (no appointments available, the waiting time is too long, the requested size isn't in stock...whatever) and sue the owner for discrimination. You know, there aren't any appointments available only because I'm gay/female/handicapped/African american/Hispanic/whatever, so if you don't boot someone else (who has probably waited for weeks/months) out of the line and put me in, I'll SUE!!!

..........and probably win.

Wait. That's not a slippery slope. That actually happens.

your slippery slope fallacy fails because the baker would not do it for anyone else either. And a wedding is a wedding today. You are the one that is trying to separate them into gay and straight.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If you think that, you have DEFINITELY not been paying attention. The last thing on earth you want to be if you wish to get anywhere in politics is a white, straight, "Christian" Protestant.

Then why is damn near every last one of them a white, heterosexual Christian?

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

It’s not about proof. It’s about professional qualifications.

Except that it isn't. Nobody owns the word "minister". And there does not appear to be any gods willing to enforce it either.

Which I find very telling....

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

The Commission on Accrediting of the Association of Theological Schools (ATS) in the United States and Canada decides. The standards are similar to the accreditation standards for any graduate institution.

My seminary had several UU students; we may have had a couple of Jewish students. I don’t know why students of other religions would want to attend a Christian seminary? But to answer your question, I’m sure they’d take any qualified student who wanted to pursue a degree from a Christian seminary, regardless of religious affiliation.

So it's sort of a self-policing agency, then? And nobody without bias is involved? Well, I suppose that's better than just willy-nilly, anyone-can-join.

I'd still prefer a current written letter from God or something.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

God knowing how many choose or reject the way to heaven in no way means He desires people to be apart from Him. The design was for people to spend eternity with Him in love, joy, beauty, and peace...but choice is also an important part of the design.

Yet... this "design" utterly, completely and to 100%, fails to be convincing to many educated people.

Why?

There appears to be a direct correlation between the degree and quality of education, and being convinced that your god is real. In that the more education one obtains? The less likely one is to believe in god.

Is this part of the "design"?

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Nobody is born gay.

Wrong. You could not possibly be more wrong, in fact.