Apostates of Islam

[Gharib]

Read,"there shall be no compulsion in religion" bit of a contradiction isn't it,what i am saying is simple people like Kareem should not be in prison for voicing his opinion and Apostacy should not be punishable with death because of some outdated Hadith.

What i am saying is that people should stop living in the past of 1400 years ago and trying to copy every single thing your prophet did or said.

these are just your views, they say nothing nor do they mean anything. the problem is that these laws will not change because you guys think they are outdated. if so then the queen seems a bit outdated to me as well, so are you going to tell her that and replace her?

that egyptian matter is for the egyptians, some of the smartest people live in egypt, the know how to solve their problems, i just wish i could say the same thing about western countries. heres a little saying i like to use;
many people say "do as i say, but don't do what i do" thats pretty much what the "advanced" and "civilised" western countries are doing.

 

[gnostic]

these are just your views, they say nothing nor do they mean anything. the problem is that these laws will not change because you guys think they are outdated. if so then the queen seems a bit outdated to me as well, so are you going to tell her that and replace her?

Do you really think that monarch should be replaced? Well, I do. I do believe that monarchy are obsolete. No one man should rule.

However, there one problem with the Muslims. Many Muslims are pining over the so-called "good old days" when you all were ruled by monarch, which you called sultans and caliphate. They want what you called obsolete monarchs. How many people wanting the caliphate, I don't know? But often I hear Muslims reminiscing the old empires.

 

[England my lionheart]

these are just your views, they say nothing nor do they mean anything. the problem is that these laws will not change because you guys think they are outdated. if so then the queen seems a bit outdated to me as well, so are you going to tell her that and replace her?

that egyptian matter is for the egyptians, some of the smartest people live in egypt, the know how to solve their problems, i just wish i could say the same thing about western countries. heres a little saying i like to use;
many people say "do as i say, but don't do what i do" thats pretty much what the "advanced" and "civilised" western countries are doing.

The Queen is there for a very good reason,one she brings money to this country via tourists,two she is an excellent Ambassador for the UK,3 she does'nt get paid and raises an enormous amount of money for charity.
Now lets do an unfair comparison,the Hadiths concerning Apostacy result in someone either being killed in a slow way or imprisoned mmmmmm let me think would i take the Hadith or the Queen,the Hadith,no only joking the Queen.
As for Egypt,yes there are some really smart Egyptians and Kareem was one of them,a student of arguably the top Islamic University in the world Al Azhar and it is the criticism of Islam and this University which has put him in prison.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

that egyptian matter is for the egyptians, some of the smartest people live in egypt, the know how to solve their problems, i just wish i could say the same thing about western countries. heres a little saying i like to use;
many people say "do as i say, but don't do what i do" thats pretty much what the "advanced" and "civilised" western countries are doing.

I think that's a very good point, there is a lot of truth to that. However, I'm still interested to hear your personal opinion on what you think ought to happen to people like Kareem, the student in question. (Unless you already answered, sorry if I missed it.)

 

[Gharib]

Do you really think that monarch should be replaced? Well, I do. I do believe that monarchy are obsolete. No one man should rule.

However, there one problem with the Muslims. Many Muslims are pining over the so-called "good old days" when you all were ruled by monarch, which you called sultans and caliphate. They want what you called obsolete monarchs. How many people wanting the caliphate, I don't know? But often I hear Muslims reminiscing the old empires.

those muslims who do not like to have a khalif have their reasons, one being that some in the past were as dumb as a dog. (the khalif)

but ask muslims whether unity amongst the muslims is a good idea or not, and tell me what they say.

 

[Gharib]

The Queen is there for a very good reason,one she brings money to this country via tourists,

do you actually beleive that turists come to see her royal queen? if so why doesn't anyone ever get to meet her, appart from a rare occasion, if this too has ever happened.

two she is an excellent Ambassador for the UK,

good for her and good for you. and good for your country

3 she does'nt get paid and raises an enormous amount of money for charity.

you live in england and you are saying that the queen doesn't get payed? oh England, england. let me ask you something else; what sort of a role does charles have in GB because he does get payed 170 million pounds a year by his mother or maybe the government (not sure who pays him), so now i wonder where she manages to get that sort of money.

Now lets do an unfair comparison,

i'm glad you pointed that out.

the Hadiths concerning Apostacy result in someone either being killed in a slow way or imprisoned mmmmmm let me think would i take the Hadith or the Queen,the Hadith,no only joking the Queen.

take or beleive?

As for Egypt,yes there are some really smart Egyptians and Kareem was one of them,

nope wrong. the smart people i was reffering to are the muslim scholars who can have power over the world in a matter of seconds, but then they would get punished with hell for eternity if they did so. so hands off, for them.

a student of arguably the top Islamic University in the world Al Azhar and it is the criticism of Islam and this University which has put him in prison.

well atleast they haven't killed him? wasn't the punishment for appostacy death. so know that this makes your argument wrong, in your above statemnt you have said that the punishment for appostacy is either slow death, or prison. let me tell you prison is not an option in islam. see your argument is jast as flawless as any other.

the punishment for appostacy in islam is death, didn't you say so in another post that a jew had become a muslim then converted back to judaism, and he was killed by the muslim. you were very eager to prove that point, and know you are going against it.

 

[Gharib]

I think that's a very good point, there is a lot of truth to that.

you are one of the very few people to have ever agreed with me on something, i'll have to frubal you for it.

However, I'm still interested to hear your personal opinion on what you think ought to happen to people like Kareem, the student in question. (Unless you already answered, sorry if I missed it.)

no i haven't answered on this thread, i think i have in some others though.

well i have surrendered my will to Allah, so Allah says they must be killed, so thats my thought on it.
if i hadn't surrendered my will to Allah then that would be a different thing, but fortunately it isn't.

 

[England my lionheart]

these are just your views, they say nothing nor do they mean anything. the problem is that these laws will not change because you guys think they are outdated. if so then the queen seems a bit outdated to me as well, so are you going to tell her that and replace her?

that egyptian matter is for the egyptians, some of the smartest people live in egypt, the know how to solve their problems, i just wish i could say the same thing about western countries. heres a little saying i like to use;
many people say "do as i say, but don't do what i do" thats pretty much what the "advanced" and "civilised" western countries are doing.

I will agree with you that here in the West there are moral issues but it is a matter of concience to each individual,not everyone will commit adultery but it happens and can have a devastating effect on families but does it really warrant the death penalty.
As for Apostacy,well there really is "no compulsion in religion" here and its possible although unlikely that i could join and leave a religion everyday of the week and no harm done,no stoning,no lashes,no social stigma.
As for countries like Egypt,well you are right it is Egypts business and the fact that they have issues with Human rights with complaints from Amnesty international is perhaps none of my business and my criticism of them is just my opinion,however that does'nt prevent me being concerned for a fellow Human being who is suffering.

 

[England my lionheart]

do you actually beleive that turists come to see her royal queen? if so why doesn't anyone ever get to meet her, appart from a rare occasion, if this too has ever happened.

Actually the Queen regularly has Tea parties for the public perhaps a 100 a time and yes many people do come to see her and the pageantry of the changing of the guard at Buckingham Palace.

good for her and good for you. and good for your country
Yep
you live in england and you are saying that the queen doesn't get payed? oh England, england. let me ask you something else; what sort of a role does charles have in GB because he does get payed 170 million pounds a year by his mother or maybe the government (not sure who pays him), so now i wonder where she manages to get that sort of money.

LOL Charles gets 170 million a year,definately not,Charles gets his money from Farms and land as he owns Cornwall and is a passionate Organic Farmer,he also campaigns a lot for climate change and is another who raises money for charity,he is also responsible for the better housing being built for the people at the bottom of the property ladder.
The Queen has a personal fortune of approximately 70 million,she breeds race Horses and has Farms etc.



i'm glad you pointed that out.




take or beleive?
Either


nope wrong. the smart people i was reffering to are the muslim scholars who can have power over the world in a matter of seconds, but then they would get punished with hell for eternity if they did so. so hands off, for them.
What power,and in a matter of seconds:areyoucra


well atleast they haven't killed him? wasn't the punishment for appostacy death. so know that this makes your argument wrong, in your above statemnt you have said that the punishment for appostacy is either slow death, or prison. let me tell you prison is not an option in islam. see your argument is jast as flawless as any other.

the punishment for appostacy in islam is death, didn't you say so in another post that a jew had become a muslim then converted back to judaism, and he was killed by the muslim. you were very eager to prove that point, and know you are going against it.

Well you are right,the punishment for Apostacy is death,whether Egypt were treading softly because they are supposed to be secular and Amnesty international were involved so they were lenient if you can call it that and i am not going against my point because IMHO imprisoning or killing someone for their beliefs or lack of is wrong

 

[Gharib]

I will agree with you that here in the West there are moral issues but it is a matter of concience to each individual,not everyone will commit adultery but it happens and can have a devastating effect on families but does it really warrant the death penalty.
As for Apostacy,well there really is "no compulsion in religion" here and its possible although unlikely that i could join and leave a religion everyday of the week and no harm done,no stoning,no lashes,no social stigma.
As for countries like Egypt,well you are right it is Egypts business and the fact that they have issues with Human rights with complaints from Amnesty international is perhaps none of my business and my criticism of them is just my opinion,however that does'nt prevent me being concerned for a fellow Human being who is suffering.

so it seem you tuely are a wise and smart man after all , i'm glad you changer you views.
i really would like to frubal you now (BTW did you say this just for the frubals?)

 

[Gharib]

Well you are right,the punishment for Apostacy is death,whether Egypt were treading softly because they are supposed to be secular and Amnesty international were involved so they were lenient if you can call it that and i am not going against my point because IMHO imprisoning or killing someone for their beliefs or lack of is wrong

i would frubal you for this too, but the damn thing won't let me :no:

 

[England my lionheart]

Not for Frubals,Frubals mean little to me really but thanks

 

[Gharib]

Not for Frubals,Frubals mean little to me really but thanks

you are welcome.

 

[Gharib]

oh by the way, do our other discussions have to end, i mean the ones about adultery and all that sort of stuff.

 

[England my lionheart]

oh by the way, do our other discussions have to end, i mean the ones about adultery and all that sort of stuff.

As far as i'm concerned this is still open and i have a question for you and one which Proud Muslim answered very well.
Your freind whom you grew up with and has gone to prayers with you since childhood tells you he will no longer be going to prayers and is leaving Islam,you try to talk him out of it but he is adamant,as his freind do you shaun his company,have a fatwah issued on him or just accept he has different views to you.
I will say that Kareem Soliman has many Muslim supporters and that although they disagree with what he said defend his right to free speech.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

well i have surrendered my will to Allah, so Allah says they must be killed, so thats my thought on it.

If that is what Allah says, then he is cruel and barbaric. Why would you surrender your will to someone like that?

 

[Gharib]

If that is what Allah says, then he is cruel and barbaric. Why would you surrender your will to someone like that?

my reward in return will be heaven for eternity. and Allah isn't barbaric nor cruel, just to point that out

 

[Gharib]

As far as i'm concerned this is still open and i have a question for you and one which Proud Muslim answered very well.
Your freind whom you grew up with and has gone to prayers with you since childhood tells you he will no longer be going to prayers and is leaving Islam,you try to talk him out of it but he is adamant,as his freind do you shaun his company,have a fatwah issued on him or just accept he has different views to you.
I will say that Kareem Soliman has many Muslim supporters and that although they disagree with what he said defend his right to free speech.

well muslims do not have a leader at the moment, if that is to happen then i would ask for his word not to offend muslims and islam too. if he does agree to this, then i would also respect him as a friend and as a non muslim (in one hadith it is said that even though a non muslim hangs out with muslims and they speak of Allah or mention him, their sins will be forgiven including those of the unbeleiver simply for being there and listening). but if he goes aggainst his word, then i would not like to know him, although forgiveness would be a good option depending if he really wants to have a friendship.

 

[England my lionheart]

well muslims do not have a leader at the moment, if that is to happen then i would ask for his word not to offend muslims and islam too. if he does agree to this, then i would also respect him as a friend and as a non muslim (in one hadith it is said that even though a non muslim hangs out with muslims and they speak of Allah or mention him, their sins will be forgiven including those of the unbeleiver simply for being there and listening). but if he goes aggainst his word, then i would not like to know him, although forgiveness would be a good option depending if he really wants to have a friendship.

Thanks for your answer

 

[Mr Spinkles]

my reward in return will be heaven for eternity. and Allah isn't barbaric nor cruel, just to point that out

If Allah is not barbaric or cruel, then you must be mistaken that Allah wants you to kill people who leave their religion. Because that is barbaric and cruel. Is it not?