Apostates of Islam

[Gharib]

You know if telling lies about Islam is justification for fighting I would think Muslims would be beating themselves silly. Seriously.

(edit for spelling)

still don't get it do you.

if you fight islam with words, i am obligated to fight back with the same amount of force, which, even a child would agree wit me on this, means i have to deffend islam with words.

do you get it now?

 

[Alla Prima]

you call that an insult?

To be called a stuffed inanimate child's toy? Yes I do. Your insults don't bother me of course but they're meant as insults. Certainly not debate.

well lets just compare it to, say, muslims being killers for nothing, simply because you say so.

No idea what you're talking about. I've never advocated death for Muslims (at least not those who weren't blowing women and children to bits).

or what about me being deceitfull to people about islam, i'm not a liar and never will be ok.

Post the appropriate quote. I don't know whether or not you're being intentionally deceitful but your heavily biased information regarding Islam IS deception in my opinion.

but, since you are offended/insulted so easily by such words, i will not do it again.
i will not make it a personal thing, thats not my intention.

Good but as I said your insults don't bother me however they make you look childish... and they're not debate.

 

[Gharib]

To be called a stuffed inanimate child's toy? Yes I do. Your insults don't bother me of course but they're meant as insults. Certainly not debate.



No idea what you're talking about. I've never advocated death for Muslims (at least not those who weren't blowing women and children to bits).



Post the appropriate quote. I don't know whether or not you're being intentionally deceitful but your heavily biased information regarding Islam IS deception in my opinion.



Good but as I said your insults don't bother me however they make you look childish... and they're not debate.

since when do you kow what debate is?

you seem to use that quite a lot now.

 

[Gharib]

Does eselam deny that Islam promotes this? I have heard him and many (not all) Muslims say that the punishment for apostasy, or for speaking openly about one's apostasy, is death.

you are scaring me Sprinkles.

i never said that the punishment for an apostate who speaks his mind out is death, where did you all get that?

the only apostates that are killed are those who are hypocrits, i will post you Fatihahs' answer on that ok.

 

[Alla Prima]

still don't get it do you.

if you fight islam with words, i am obligated to fight back with the same amount of force, which, even a child would agree wit me on this, means i have to deffend islam with words.

do you get it now?

Hmm... I don't know why you always use the term 'fight'. It carries the meaning of violence with it. I'm criticizing an ideology. This is what we do here in the free world. This is a good thing. But Islam doesn't want debate about Islam. Islam wants to be free to do whatever Islam wants to do. Sorry but it doesn't work that way here. Islam is here in the West so Islam will be criticized just as other ideologies have been criticized. You can use all the words you want. That's fine (however why you would fight to defend misogyny for instance is beyond me). But according to the teachings of Islam, criticizing Islam can bring physical harm or even death to those who criticize it. This is wrong and this is why Islam has to be looked at.

My observation and understanding is this. You're 'fighting' to deliver a false picture of Islam. Maybe to you it isn't false - I don't know since I can't get inside your head - but it IS to me and many others like me. I'm here to present what I see as a more true picture of Islam because there's always been a serious disconnect between what Muslims tell us about Islam and what Islam actually does in the real world. My explanations or criticisms help to shatter this false picture presented by Muslims and make sense of this disconnect.

 

[Alla Prima]

since when do you kow what debate is?

you seem to use that quite a lot now.

So instead of responding to my request to further debate you continue to insult.

 

[McBell]

So instead of responding to my request to further debate you continue to insult.

Well, self imposed ignorance does have a few disadvantages.

 

[Gharib]

Hmm... I don't know why you always use the term 'fight'.

oh for gods sake, ok you know what i will use "hug" from now on. do you want me to use kiss?

It carries the meaning of violence with it

yes i know, to you it does. do you want me to explain why?

it does carrie the meaning of violence just like "fighting" cancer does, doesn't it?

I'm criticizing an ideology. This is what we do here in the free world.

the free world ey, i've never tried that. how is it compared to the "prison" world of muslims? you should know.

This is a good thing. But Islam doesn't want debate about Islam.

you'll never stop pinning fase claims to islam will you? where in the quran does it say that islam does not want debate about islam?

but you do not have an answer to that, so please stop pining false accusations on islam or it's followers.

Islam wants to be free to do whatever Islam wants to do.

of course islam wants to be free to do what ever it wants, just like you are free to do what ever you want, read below

This is what we do here in the free world.

so why is it that when islam wants to be free to do what it wants, that right is denied to us by people like you. but when you want to be free, you get it no matter what, even if it means to kill innocent children across the other side of the world.

read further below, thats your answer to islam wanting freedom, just like everyone else.

Sorry but it doesn't work that way here.

why is that so, Alla Prima? who are you to deny my freedom. and i thought islam denied peoples freedom.

Islam is here in the West so Islam will be criticized just as other ideologies have been criticized. You can use all the words you want. That's fine (however why you would fight to defend misogyny for instance is beyond me).

whats misogyny? i don't understand that word, never heard it before.

But according to the teachings of Islam, criticizing Islam can bring physical harm or even death to those who criticize it. This is wrong and this is why Islam has to be looked at.

according to islam right?

show me any verse that states we should physically harm anyone that criticizes islam. if you are not pinning your fake calims on islam again that is.

My observation and understanding is this. You're 'fighting' to deliver a false picture of Islam. Maybe to you it isn't false

your observation?

this is your discrimination, there has not been a single minute for you to observe anything. and now i'm fighting am i?

and here it is again calling me a liar.

- I don't know

when did that ever stop you? you never knew and never will know.

since I can't get inside your head

is that so, do you want a knife?

- but it IS to me and many others like me.

if it was left to you to tell people the true islam then i would hang my self.

I'm here to present what I see as a more true picture of Islam because there's always been a serious disconnect between what Muslims tell us about Islam and what Islam actually does in the real world.

you could say that, and while you are at it, you could also say that the muslims of today have biased information about islam, just like we have biased information about the real character or Muhammed (saws). and yet claims that he was a bad man have emerged all the way to the 21'st century, now tell me if tht isn't funny.

so i totally agree to let you do the discrimination of islam to prove how much people like you hate islam, that when something good is said about it, it kills you inside.

My explanations or criticisms help to shatter this false picture presented by Muslims and make sense of this disconnect.

so you are the missing link between the 6'th century muslims and the 21'st century muslims, what an expected surpirse from an ex-muslim

 

[Gharib]

So instead of responding to my request to further debate you continue to insult.

oh my god.

i don't mean to insult with this, but how old are you?

 

[Gharib]

Well, self imposed ignorance does have a few disadvantages.

hey you're back, welcome.

(forgot the smiley)

 

[.lava]

As I see it it's the Muslims not the ex-Muslims who are using weapons against Islam.



Ayaan Hirsi Ali used no weapons.

Salman Rushdie used no weapons.

Dr. Wafa Sultan used no weapons.

All have gone into hiding because of death threats. Are these the kind of words you are talking about? Where is your outrage against this terrible behavior?

before you ask such a question first quote Muslims who approve fatwas.


.

 

[ProudMuslim]

They would be dead if they could be found. That's why they're in hiding - Duh! You're saying it's ok to threaten people with death as long as you don't actually kill them. That's a barbaric idea and should be denounced by all.

Of course it is barbaric and it is not limited to Muslims. Secular and Christians psychos in your country do it all the time. Angelina Jolie faced death threats when she donated a million to the Afghanis. The Dixie Chicks recieved death threats after one member voice her opinion about Bush. The list goes on and on about your "civilized" fellow trash who live in a "free society".

The funny thing is that apparently Angelina's donation uproared many followers of 'Jesus Love' to the point where they wanted to kill her, just like one trivial sentence like "We are embarrased that Bush is from Texas" led to destruction of their cds, public boycott and death threats. Your "secular" country is seriously full of psychos who are even worse than those Muslims who threatened the likes of Wafaa Sultan who openly declared her sole purpose is to fight Islam.

My point is these people merely used words and they were threatened with death.

Same above. I don't see you going berserk on your fellow pyscho citizens.

That they weren't murdered is a testament to their ability to defend themselves not to any compassion from Islam.

That they were threatened is a testament of recipient weakness, hatred or uncontrolled provoked emotions. It has nothing to do with Islam to begin with. This is proved through the examples i have provided above where secular, christians and others threat people with death for merely voicing trivial opinion or in some cases being for being a philanthropist!!

And just so you know, do you really think Wafaa Sultan stance has any value, the mere fact that Islam is surviving and going strong in the 21 century; the fact that Islam population is growing fast and that many people in "free societies" embrace Islam each day; the fact that despite all the attacks on Islam, we refuse to remove the word 'jihad' from Qur'an or change our beliefs to suit the current quote of the day; and the bulk of reverts who speak in favor of Islam just kill her slowly each day, she will die out of misery.

I think such people need to live long so they can be consumed by their own hatred, it was way worse to die slowly each day than to be killed. That's why in Islam physical force is only permitted when it faces phyiscal force, not only because God does not live transgressors but to see your enemy flourish, grow strong and widen its followers base is the best punishment for them.

Your statement of "Islam is straight about transgression. If someone is using words, we will use words but if he chooses to use weapon then we HAVE to use weapons" is nonsensical propaganda.

Said the hardcore Islamophobic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wafa_Sultan#cite_note-10

 

[.lava]

...the absolute evil nature of Allah. I can't imagine why anyone would acknowledge the existence of such a deity let alone worship him. From evil minds spring evil gods.

you think you're insulted. read what you wrote about US! you called evey Muslim evil mind. you're not extraordinary, you are not a dilema either. you hate Islam and you want it to be destroyed all together. this is your mission. this is why you do not discuss with Muslims who approves executions of apostates. instead you discuss with us, try to make us look evil and blame Islam as much as you can blame us. it is obvious that you know war on Islam can not continue without violance you ARE dying to see in Islamic lands, from Muslims. you are such a disgrace.

.

 

[ProudMuslim]

Please provide the quote and in context.

One of her hostile unworthy quotes:

"I have decided to fight Islam; please pay attention to my statement; to fight Islam, not the political Islam, not the militant Islam, not the radical Islam, not the Wahhabi Islam, but Islam itself...Islam has never been misunderstood, Islam is the problem....(Muslims) have to realize that they have only two choices: to change or to be crushed."[11]

 

[Alla Prima]

And just so you know, do you really think Wafaa Sultan stance has any value,

Of course! She speaks the truth of Islam.

the mere fact that Islam is surviving and going strong in the 21 century; the fact that Islam population is growing fast and that many people in "free societies" embrace Islam each day; the fact that despite all the attacks on Islam, we refuse to[/font] remove the word 'jihad' from Qur'an or change our beliefs to suit the current quote of the day; and the bulk of reverts who speak in favor of Islam just kill her slowly each day, she will die out of misery.

"she will die out of misery". Charming thought. This is why I believe Islam is evil. It places it's own ideology above the health, safety and above all the happiness of people. It thinks nothing of people who don't tow the Islamic party line. It denigrates and wishes ill those who criticize it's ideology even to the point of murdering them. These are markings of a cult not a world religion.

I think Islam is powerfully divisive - so much so that any Muslim would feel elevated through the denigration of all that is not Islam. This could be the attraction of Islam. There a lot of people in need of self esteem in this world and Islam gives it to them in spades through categorizing all else as worthy of Hell. We're right your wrong. We're suppremely right and you're hellishly wrong. *edit*

 

[Alla Prima]

One of her hostile unworthy quotes:

If I were sitting in a glass house I would consider her comment hostile as well. Sorry your religion is so fragile.

"I have decided to fight Islam; please pay attention to my statement; to fight Islam, not the political Islam, not the militant Islam, not the radical Islam, not the Wahhabi Islam, but Islam itself...Islam has never been misunderstood, Islam is the problem....(Muslims) have to realize that they have only two choices: to change or to be crushed."[11]

Where's the eradicate Islam? Where's the elimination of Islam. It was you who said she said these things wasn't it? And she's right. Islam IS the problem. I suggest change.

 

[Alla Prima]

you think you're insulted. read what you wrote about US! you called evey Muslim evil mind. you're not extraordinary, you are not a dilema either. you hate Islam and you want it to be destroyed all together. this is your mission. this is why you do not discuss with Muslims who approves executions of apostates. instead you discuss with us, try to make us look evil and blame Islam as much as you can blame us. it is obvious that you know war on Islam can not continue without violance you ARE dying to see in Islamic lands, from Muslims. you are such a disgrace.

.

I said nothing about you or any Muslim save one. You did not create Allah nor did any Muslim - save one. My comment "From evil minds spring evil gods" refers to Muhammad's mind and his creation Allah. Both, as far as I'm concerned, were/are evil. Any or all minds who would create such an evil god hold an evil mind.

I would see Islam transformed to the peaceful religion it claims to be - not destroyed. That would be my first choice.

 

[Alla Prima]

The list goes on and on about your "civilized" fellow trash who live in a "free society".

I think it ironic how I am being accused of hating Muslims when you a Muslim call non Muslims "trash". I have never referred to Muslims as "trash" nor would I and if I did Muslims would scream bloody murder. Ironic isn't it?

But I'm not surprised. The Koran teaches you to see all non Muslims as human trash worthy of Hell and you're illustrating my point.

 

[ProudMuslim]

"she will die out of misery". Charming thought. This is why I believe Islam is evil. It places it's own ideology above the health, safety and above all the happiness of people. It thinks nothing of people who don't tow the Islamic party line. It denigrates and wishes ill those who criticize it's ideology even to the point of murdering them. These are markings of a cult not a world religion.

Very thoughtful. I will have to repeat what i have said earlier only with minor addition which is bolded.

the mere fact that Islam is surviving and going strong in the 21 century; the fact that Islam population is growing fast and that many people in "free societies" embrace Islam each day; the fact that despite all the attacks on Islam, we refuse to remove the word 'jihad' from Qur'an or change our beliefs to suit the current quote of the day; and the bulk of reverts who speak in favor of Islam just kill her (and her likes) slowly each day, she (and her likes) will die out of misery.

If I were sitting in a glass house I would consider her comment hostile as well. Sorry your religion is so fragile.

No need to be sorry, i feel sorry that you have to exist in a world where your enemy is growing strong and widening its followers base. I hate to be you, honestly.

Where's the eradicate Islam? Where's the elimination of Islam. It was you who said she said these things wasn't it? And she's right. Islam IS the problem. I suggest change.

Umm let's play stupid here and pretend you are "lost" totally at my accusation to that sad Wafaa. Since Islam IS the problem according to her, she is threatning that Muslims need to change their religion (just like some people do, altering their holy books) to seek the blessing of their fellow spiritual free fellows OR we need to be crushed. See, she is a humanist, i wonder why many hate her

But the big news is we will not change. Hear it, grasp it and accept it. If it's too hard to accept that in your little hardcore Islamophobic world, just see it as a fact of life that you and others can't do anything about it. See how concerned i am about your mental health

I think it ironic how I am being accused of hating Muslims when you a Muslim call non Muslims "trash". I have never referred to Muslims as "trash" nor would I and if I did Muslims would scream bloody murder. Ironic isn't it?

Yes ironic, while you go on and on about how evil my God is, how evil my Prophet is, how evil my religion is and and how delusional Muslims all while posting ridiculous full of hatred posts, you find offence in me calling those Americans who issued death threats 'trash'.

But I'm not surprised. The Koran teaches you to see all non Muslims as human trash worthy of Hell and you're illustrating my point.

Ah good attempt to victimize yourself. I think it was obvious that i was referring to your fellow trash who issued death threats to people for merely being a philanthropist or just saying " we are embarrased to be from the same town".

 

[.lava]

Of course! She speaks the truth of Islam.

when you wish to reach Allah, Allah makes you reach it before death. there is nothing more lovable than being close to my Rab. that wish would never be made by people who's in love with this temporary world that dies each second that passes. what truth you are you talking about? you do not even know what Islam is and what happens and how you would feel when you're Islam and when you clearly see how much you're loved by your OWNER!


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