Are crystals magic?

[jarofthoughts]

Well, it was a claim you made.... in (a) public (forum).

(and it didn't add up)

Feel free to exchange it for any other nonsensical thing these people might spout.

 

[shawn001]

Originally Posted by Comet
This may be a touch off-topic, but it will demonstrate a point about crystals. I work in a nuclear pharmacy and we use crystals EVERYDAY for medical/scientific purposes. Crystals do store energy and even the USA Federal Government mandates that we wear them while working. Our dosemitry is a small crystal in a plastic case. It STORES the radiation energy we are exposed to so the government can keep track of our exposure. I have even heard that the crystal skulls of fame were studied by IBM, and they said that they hold more information than all of todays computers combined.... Crystals do store energy/information/"history", my job attests to that.

Ok, can you demonstrate this beyond just saying so? I'm incredibly skeptical that pretty much anything you just said is true.

- What sort of crystal is it mandated by the US government that you "wear while working?" How is it worn?
- What other crystals do you use "every day" for medical purposes -- what sort of purposes, specifically; using the crystals in what manner, specifically?

- Where did you read that "crystal skulls" were studied by IBM and found to contain more information than all of today's computers combined? Did anyone verify this, was this published in peer-review?

I am with you on this one meow mix.

Its been shown cheddar cheese has more energy then a quartz crystal.

thermoluminescent dosimetry

How does TLD (thermoluminescent dosimetry) work?


crystal skull

Jane MacLaren Walsh of the Smithsonian concluded that several crystal skulls held in museums were manufactured between 1867 and 1886 ("Crystal Skulls and Other Problems," Smithsonian Institute Press, Washington DC, 1996). [new] In the May 27, 2010, online edition of ArchaeologyWalsh states that she "had two opportunities to examine the Mitchell-Hedges skull closely and to take silicone molds of carved and polished elements of it, which I have analyzed under high-power light and scanning-electron microscopes....The microscopic evidence presented here indicates that the skull is not a Maya artifact but was carved with high-speed, modern, diamond-coated lapidary tools....It is not unreasonable to conclude that the Mitchell-Hedges skull, which first appeared in 1933, was also created within a short time of its debut. " [/new]

more skullduggery?​

Other so-called ancient crystal skulls have had histories as dubious as the Mitchell-Hedges skull. For example, a skull called "Max" was supposedly given to the people of Guatemala by a Tibetan healer. Another pair of skulls, known as the British Skull and the Paris Skull, was allegedly found in Mexico in the late 19th century by mercenaries. They are very similar and one may have been the model for the other. The Paris skull is said to represent Mictlantecuhtli, the Aztec god of the dead. It is not alleged to have any occult powers, however.
The Mayan Skull and the Amethyst Skull were allegedly found in Guatemala early in this century. "Nick" Nocerino claims he met a shaman in 1949 while traveling in Mexico who led him to a Mayan priest who said he was authorized to sell the skulls because the village needed money for food. Nick didn't buy them, but he studied them scientifically and found some startling things such as "its true origin is cloaked in mystery" and it had the power to give him hours of meaningful visions.
There isn't a shard of evidence that these crystal skulls are mysterious in any way. What is mysterious is their continued popularity and the continued mythology as to their origins and powers.​

crystal skull - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com

 

[Comet]

Meow and shawn:

How Can You Detect Radiation?

http://www.brown.edu/Administration/EHS/public/badge_usage.pdf
There are many types of crystals. Since the OP didn't specify what type of crystal, I merely mentioned the crystal skulls. I speak of what I work with every day, not quartz crystals. Many types of CRYSTALS are used to do different things. Yet, it is the crystaline forms that we use in our dosemity as well as MCAs and SCAs. I'd be happy to give you a tour of a Nuclear Pharmacy and show you the machines and devices that store energy (radiation) via crystals.
All good questions and valuable points... frubals to both. Yet, one can not deny that crystals have different (for lack of a better word) "powers" that can be used in many different ways. It does depend on what they are made of and how they are used. Yet, the crystaline form of many compounds does have use and strange ways of reacting/interacting with our world.

 

[Comet]

As for the crystal skulls: as I said "I have even heard"
I don't remember where I heard that, but I do testify to the crystals we use in the medical field everyday!

http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/csbook.txt here is one web-book thing that speaks of what I had heard. I looked it up online and saw stuff that said Hewlit-Packard also studied the crystal skulls.

 

[nnmartin]

crystals have magic for sure - already on post 185....

A crystal in one hand , a religious book in the other - works for me!

 

[jarofthoughts]

crystals have magic for sure.

A claim you have yet to substantiate.

A crystal in one hand , a religious book in the other - works for me!

That's all well and good.
Do whatever you like for your own sake and in your own home.
But if you want other people to accept your claim, we're going to need a little more than just your word for it.

So, are you ready to admit that you have no evidence for your claim?

 

[Meow Mix]

Meow and shawn:

How Can You Detect Radiation?

http://www.brown.edu/Administration/EHS/public/badge_usage.pdf
There are many types of crystals. Since the OP didn't specify what type of crystal, I merely mentioned the crystal skulls. I speak of what I work with every day, not quartz crystals. Many types of CRYSTALS are used to do different things. Yet, it is the crystaline forms that we use in our dosemity as well as MCAs and SCAs. I'd be happy to give you a tour of a Nuclear Pharmacy and show you the machines and devices that store energy (radiation) via crystals.
All good questions and valuable points... frubals to both. Yet, one can not deny that crystals have different (for lack of a better word) "powers" that can be used in many different ways. It does depend on what they are made of and how they are used. Yet, the crystaline form of many compounds does have use and strange ways of reacting/interacting with our world.

Oh, NaI crystals. That does make sense. There's nothing magical about that though (but I understand you weren't necessarily saying there was). I think I get now that you're using the term "powers" very loosely.

I retract my skepticism on this specific matter. On to crystal skulls!

 

[Meow Mix]

As for the crystal skulls: as I said "I have even heard"
I don't remember where I heard that, but I do testify to the crystals we use in the medical field everyday!

http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/csbook.txt here is one web-book thing that speaks of what I had heard. I looked it up online and saw stuff that said Hewlit-Packard also studied the crystal skulls.

Ah, sorry to pull the skeptical trigger if you're just speculating

A quick google search suggested to me an individual from Hewlit-Packard studied such a skull, but I couldn't find anything to suggest the company itself did. I'm not that worried about it if you're not making a strong claim.

By the way, don't think I've met you on the boards before. Hi!

 

[Comet]

Ah, sorry to pull the skeptical trigger if you're just speculating

A quick google search suggested to me an individual from Hewlit-Packard studied such a skull, but I couldn't find anything to suggest the company itself did. I'm not that worried about it if you're not making a strong claim.

By the way, don't think I've met you on the boards before. Hi!

As in some frubals sent, I too am skeptical of the crystal skulls.... yet, I assumed the debate was on crystals of the like. I just brought it up for the point of those debating such things. I merely added my knowledge of other crystals to demonstrate a point. :yes:

I don't come around much any more... but an old member!

 

[Comet]

nice to meet you as well!

 

[froggerlover]

interesting post - so if crystals can store radioactive and electrical energy who is to say they cannot store other types of energy as well.

energy of consciousness, energy of the Force - all equally possible.

if there is enough energy that was set to one object than that one object can store that energy too. crystals are however said to have magical storage ability. this one girl i met, goes all around the world to collect crystals. she went somewhere in South Africa where there were many thousands of different crystals. and she said that there were a good 50 people there that were sick, lukiema, cancer, diabetes, etc. she said when the time came for them to go home, most of them cured from incurable cancers. to me, thats not just coinsidence - its something else - magic - a science that we don't understand (yet?).

 

[Iti oj]

if there is enough energy that was set to one object than that one object can store that energy too. crystals are however said to have magical storage ability. this one girl i met, goes all around the world to collect crystals. she went somewhere in South Africa where there were many thousands of different crystals. and she said that there were a good 50 people there that were sick, lukiema, cancer, diabetes, etc. she said when the time came for them to go home, most of them cured from incurable cancers. to me, thats not just coinsidence - its something else - magic - a science that we don't understand (yet?).

is any of that verifaible?...and the human mind can do amazing things...

 

[Tiberius]

crystals have magic for sure - already on post 185....

The number of posts does not grant magic to crystals.

A crystal in one hand , a religious book in the other - works for me!

Whatever works for you.

Works in reality about as well as putting on a superman cape will let you fly.

 

[jarofthoughts]

if there is enough energy that was set to one object than that one object can store that energy too. crystals are however said to have magical storage ability. this one girl i met, goes all around the world to collect crystals. she went somewhere in South Africa where there were many thousands of different crystals. and she said that there were a good 50 people there that were sick, lukiema, cancer, diabetes, etc. she said when the time came for them to go home, most of them cured from incurable cancers. to me, thats not just coinsidence - its something else - magic - a science that we don't understand (yet?).

No offense meant, but I call ox manure on that one.

But hey, put those crystals up in a controlled double-blind test and get the results published in a medical journal and we might have that conversation.

Until then...sorry.
No dice.

 

[nnmartin]

a controlled double-blind test or any sort of man made machine will not be able to detect the magical properties of a crystal. They are untestable in this way.

As I have already said, crystals are a conduit of the Force - like a magical receiver. You will not detect the magic when it is not there and you can guarantee it won't be when strapped into some diabolical man made device.

You need to 'tune in' in a way to experience a crystal. It is a subtle energy and it quite clearly does not manifest in some people's presence.

It is a shame for you that you cannot experience Crystal Magic.

 

[jarofthoughts]

a controlled double-blind test or any sort of man made machine will not be able to detect the magical properties of a crystal. They are untestable in this way.

Then 'they' have no affect on the physical world, which means that 'they' do not exist.

As I have already said, crystals are a conduit of the Force - like a magical receiver. You will not detect the magic when it is not there and you can guarantee it won't be when strapped into some diabolical man made device.

Like the diabolical man made device that you are using to communicate with people from all over the world right now?
Or the diabolical man made device that you use to call your mother?
Or perhaps, the diabolical man made device that you sit in when you fly on vacation.
Of course, there are also those diabolical man made devices that we use to treat diseases, feed the world and travel to the moon.
And they can all be traced back to that very same method that you seem to hate; the scientific method.

You need to 'tune in' in a way to experience a crystal. It is a subtle energy and it quite clearly does not manifest in some people's presence.

No True Scotsman fallacy.

It is a shame for you that you cannot experience Crystal Magic.

It is a shame for you that you seem to believe in things that are only in your head.

 

[nnmartin]

not a shame at all , belief is a great thing. It brings happiness and joy. Far more so than reading a science text book.

all the devices you mentioned are not the same as a crystal - man made machines are useful agreed , but they are not natural energy.

everything that you cannot proove no doubt falls into Scotsman territory for you so not surprising you have anti-crystal tendencies.

They really are wonderful things.

I am planning to buy a new one soon on my next holdiday - do you have any suggestions?

 

[Meow Mix]

not a shame at all , belief is a great thing. It brings happiness and joy. Far more so than reading a science text book.

all the devices you mentioned are not the same as a crystal - man made machines are useful agreed , but they are not natural energy.

everything that you cannot proove no doubt falls into Scotsman territory for you so not surprising you have anti-crystal tendencies.

They really are wonderful things.

I am planning to buy a new one soon on my next holdiday - do you have any suggestions?

I think Carl Sagan said it best:

Science involves a seemingly self-contradictory mix of attitudes: On the one hand it requires an almost complete openness to all ideas, no matter how bizarre and weird they sound, a propensity to wonder. As I walk along, my time slows down; I shrink in the direction of motion, and I get more massive. That's crazy! On the scale of the very small, the molecule can be in this position, in that position, but it is prohibited from being in any intermediate position. That's wild!

But the first is a statement of special relativity, and the second is a consequence of quantum mechanics. Like it or not, that's the way the world is. If you insist that it's ridiculous, you will be forever closed to the major findings of science. But at the same time, science requires the most vigorous and uncompromising skepticism, because the vast majority of ideas are simply wrong, and the only way you can distinguish the right from the wrong, the wheat from the chaff, is by critical experiment and analysis.

Too much openness and you accept every notion, idea, and hypothesis -- which is tantamount to knowing nothing. Too much skepticism -- especially rejection of new ideas before they are adequately tested -- and you're not only unpleasantly grumpy, but also closed to the advance of science. A judicious mix is what we need.
It's no fun, as I said at the beginning, to be on the receiving end of skeptical questioning. But it's the affordable price we pay for having the benefits of so powerful a tool as science.

He also said:

I maintain there is much more wonder in science than in pseudoscience. And in addition, to whatever measure this term has any meaning, science has the additional virtue, and it is not an inconsiderable one, of being true.

Sagan suspected (while reminiscing about a conversation he had with a cab driver about Atlantis and, ironically enough, crystals) that the reason pseudoscience is so prevalent and so believed by some individuals is because some of us feel like we have a deep seated desire to believe -- to get away from the humdrum prosaicness of every day existence. He argued, though, that the world doesn't require us to believe in magic crystals or lost civilizations in order to be deeply mysterious and beautiful. I agree with him.

Way back in the day, a gentleman named John Keats accused Isaac Newton of destroying the beauty of the rainbow by unravelling it with prisms. (This was actually an incorrect accusation; but that's not important). The general idea here seems to be that science isn't wonderful: it's easy to think of it as droll, monotonous, and unnecessarily pedantic. Maybe it's easy to think of Ben Stein standing in front of a room while chalking indiscernable mathematical symbols while droning on about boring things.

However, I strongly disagree with that notion. I agree with Sagan: the world doesn't need magical crystals or mysterious energies to be awesome (in the original sense of the word: to inspire awe). It baffles and amazes me to think about the things we uncover through science: I think about stars 30 times more massive than Sol and how unfathomably huge that is. I think about galactic black holes in the centers of galaxies while literally all the worlds orbit around them. I think about how strange, yet how sensical, it is that pure mathematics can accurately model the universe.

There is so much out there that's so much more amazing, so much more mysterious, so much more beautiful than anything pseudoscientists can even dream up. On top of that, as Sagan notes, we have evidence and justification to understand that we're approaching truth with science -- something pseudoscience can't likewise claim.

So, when you say:

...belief is a great thing. It brings happiness and joy. Far more so than reading a science text book.

I have to say that I disagree. There is far more happiness, joy, and wonder in a science book than in any wild fantasy of even the most wonder-hungry mind.

Dr. Sagan had two more things to say that I will fully support:

Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy.

Skeptical scrutiny is the means, in both science and religion, by which deep thoughts can be winnowed from deep nonsense.

R.I.P. Dr. Sagan.

 

[Tiberius]

a controlled double-blind test or any sort of man made machine will not be able to detect the magical properties of a crystal. They are untestable in this way.

And this is funny because that's exactly the result we'd expect if there is no magical properties at all.

As I have already said, crystals are a conduit of the Force - like a magical receiver. You will not detect the magic when it is not there and you can guarantee it won't be when strapped into some diabolical man made device.

We can't detect it when it is not there, and we can't detect it when it IS there. It's like it just isn't there at all.

You need to 'tune in' in a way to experience a crystal. It is a subtle energy and it quite clearly does not manifest in some people's presence.

Please describe the process of "tuning in."

It is a shame for you that you cannot experience Crystal Magic.

Show us that what you experience comes from the crystal, and not because you expect to feel it.

not a shame at all , belief is a great thing. It brings happiness and joy. Far more so than reading a science text book.

When it comes to learning about how the universe actually works, I know which one I'd prefer.

all the devices you mentioned are not the same as a crystal - man made machines are useful agreed , but they are not natural energy.

If man made stuff is made from things found in nature (mined ores etc), why wouldn't it have natural energy?

everything that you cannot proove no doubt falls into Scotsman territory for you so not surprising you have anti-crystal tendencies.

You've given us no reason to be pro-crystal.

They really are wonderful things.

Yes, very pretty.

I am planning to buy a new one soon on my next holdiday - do you have any suggestions?

Yes, quartz. My watch has some, it's very useful.

 

[nnmartin]

I have to say that I disagree. There is far more happiness, joy, and wonder in a science book than in any wild fantasy of even the most wonder-hungry mind.

You and Dr Sagan sound like a barrel of laughs.

I'm sure you were made for each other!

Perhaps send him an e-mail, maybe you two can get it together.