Are you a great debater?

[AmbiguousGuy]

From my experience on RF, most debates are never decisively won. They simply peter out due to boredom or sheer futility.

Just to be clear, my question was not rhetorical. I'd be interested if anyone wants to share thoughts about how we can determine who wins/loses a debate.

I think in formal scholastic debate there is probably a jury who votes on it. The guy who gets the trophy is the winner. But there's no jury here. So how can we tell who has won?

 

[Sunstone]

I once went through a phase on this board when I tried to win debates. That worked out so well!

But most often these days, I'm not in the business of trying to persuade anyone to my point of view. I am much more selfish and narcissistic than that: I post mostly to hear myself speak, to insufferably question interesting people for my own entertainment, and to enjoy for myself the art of writing.

So, I usually just toss out my opinion, follow it up a few times so long as I think I'm adding something new to it, and then slink away into the vast cyber-night of the net.

 

[Sunstone]

But there's no jury here. So how can we tell who has won?

I suppose we could use the Forum's poll option to set up a jury of those interested, if we really wanted to put it to a vote. But I'm not hot on the idea of trying to determine winners and losers.

 

[Tarheeler]

In formal debates there is set criteria and a format to follow, but I think it's hard to judge on a message board. As one of my favorite signature on this forum states: Debating some people is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good at playing chess you are, the pigeon is just going to knock down all the pieces, poop on the board, and walk around all triumphant.

I think that is an accurate description of what often happens on the internet.

As far as rating ourselves, I think I'm knowledgeable in some areas, do a good job of expressing myself, and typically present solid arguments. But I tend to walk away after doing so; I have far less interest in "winning" than I do in exchanging ideas, and I try my best to leave once it devolves into pettiness.

 

[Ouroboros]

Terrible.

I suck in debates. I can argue, but stupidity frustrates me. Only one thing frustrates me even more, my own stupidity...

 

[Riverwolf]

Meh. I make very careless mistakes on heated subjects, especially ones that potentially directly affect me, because emotions are flaring and clouding judgment.

 

[adi2d]

Maybe set up pro con type for set number of rounds then have them switch sides

 

[Ouroboros]

Meh. I make very careless mistakes on heated subjects, especially ones that potentially directly affect me, because emotions are flaring and clouding judgment.

Hear, hear.

And it's frustrating after 10-15 posts to discover that someone is quoting you and you realize that whatever you posted back then was worded terrible and... no wonder they misunderstood. I write posts the way I talk... long rants with obvious statements...

 

[dust1n]

I have a question:

How do you/we determine who has won/lost any particular debate?

A debate is won by putting forth substantial arguments for supporting one own's side which cannot be addressed, while the opponent's arguments are addressed, but the opponent cannot address the former's arguments.

Another question:

If we believe that we win all our debates (always beating the other guy), doesn't that point to a strong probability that we are deluded about ourselves?

Yes. And likely strongly deluded about the things being argued over as well.

 

[Caladan]

I am by far the most prolific debater on the forum, and on the World Wide Web in general. Undefeated in battle, King in my own turf, and admired for my direct hits straight at the heart of the matter. Trolls weep at the sight of my grammatical gymnastics, and old timers encourage me to flavor their discussions with my illustrious ideas.

 

[dust1n]

Meh. I make very careless mistakes on heated subjects, especially ones that potentially directly affect me, because emotions are flaring and clouding judgment.

Oh that's the worst, because the other person will just focus on that, ignore everything else, even when a retraction or correction is made.

 

[Sunstone]

... and I try my best to leave once it devolves into pettiness.

I don't much care for the cut of your avatar, Buddy.

 

[Tarheeler]

I don't much care for the cut of your avatar, Buddy.

I'm not yer buddy, pal.

 

[Riverwolf]

Hear, hear.

And it's frustrating after 10-15 posts to discover that someone is quoting you and you realize that whatever you posted back then was worded terrible and... no wonder they misunderstood. I write posts the way I talk... long rants with obvious statements...

Ah, hindsight and Rules 11-13...

 

[Sunstone]

Only one thing frustrates me even more, my own stupidity...

Tell me about it! You don't strike me as having much to brag about in the way of being stupid, but then, I've got the decisive advantage over you of my age. At 56, I can't even trust myself to read straight anymore, let alone reason straight.

 

[Riverwolf]

Oh that's the worst, because the other person will just focus on that, ignore everything else, even when a retraction or correction is made.

And, of course, wehn you retract or correct, the other person will implicitly or directly make that seem like your entire argument is invalid.

 

[Sunstone]

Oh that's the worst, because the other person will just focus on that, ignore everything else, even when a retraction or correction is made.

I detest such mean-spirited pettiness whenever I see it! Except when doing it myself, of course.

Seriously, nothing spells "loser" like what you've described, Dusty.

 

[Sunstone]

I just now voted, "I can beat anyone on this Forum".

It's true, too! I've never met anyone during my nine years on this Forum that could force me to accept even an overwhelming weight of logical reasoning and empirical evidence against my will. So there! Eat my dust, y'all!

 

[Sunstone]

I'm not yer buddy, pal.

Then I'm not your pal, friend.

 

[StarryNightshade]

I'm okay, I guess. I much rather prefer civil discussion over debate.