Are you a liar?

[2ndpillar]

Death is the punishment God promised on all who sin. We have all sinned, and will all experience death. But what about the soul? Will our souls experience the 'second death'? [Revelation 20:6]

If we repent and receive the baptism of Jesus Christ, then we receive of His 'resurrection life', and our souls are made alive. At His coming, the faithful will receive a new spiritual body and they will be drawn to Christ.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17.

I wouldn't rely on the testimony of the false prophet Paul for your "salvation". Those who are "saved"/"survive" during the day of the LORD (Joel 2:31-32) are those on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem. The "day of the LORD" happens at the beginnning of the millennium, not the end. If you haven't entered into "life" (Matthew 19:17) before death, don't expect to have anything to do with the "first resurrection" which is constituted by those who heed the testimony of Yeshua and keep the Commandments of God (Revelation 14:12) The "second death" addressed by Rev 20:6, refers to those not in the first resurrection, which happens 1000 years after the first resurrection. The second death is after the white throne judgment, regarding those not in the book of life, who are thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:15). Those who escape the "second death" are those who "overcome" (Revelation 2:11). As for the "soul", it is a combination of dust and the breath of life from God. When you die, the breath of life returns to God, and is without a body, and cannot hear or speak.

 

[2ndpillar]

Only when the law is fulfilled do you have the righteousness of God. The only man to fulfil the law is Jesus Christ.

You cannot fulfil the law without the Spirit of Christ.

This is why Paul says what he does in Romans 10:1-4.

What the false prophet Paul says in Romans 7:18, is "nothing good dwells in me". As for the law and the prophets (Matthew 5:17) being "fulfilled", that hasn't happened. The "day of the LORD" is still in the future, and it is a physical occurrence, whereas the "nations"/Gentiles will be "judged" (Joel 3:2). It is the Lord God who will do the judging, and after the judging, he will set up king David as their shepherd and prince/king (Ezekiel 34:20-24).

 

[F1fan]

And if someone doesn’t follow the instructions it’s that person that screwed up, why did you use regular gas for that Diesel engine? Plus it said to put oil in before using.

And another thing, the people are part of the building process of creation, not separate. If the people fail, creation fails. If a creator sets rules for the people it creates, it had better make sure those people will follow the rules. God didn't.

 

[Elihoenai]

That religions are man-made, and they change over time due to opportunities by leadership, and also that follows the flow of society's attitudes. For example Christianity is split on whether believers accept evolution or reject it in favor of a religious view called creationism. Some Christians even mix the two as some sort of bad compromise. This is why there are some 44,000 sects under the umbrella of Christianity. Doesn't exactly suggests there is a "truth", does it?

John 14:6

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

That's a split in mainstream Christianity you are talking about. Those that are Seeking the Original Christian Truth are only concerned with Salvation and Union with Elohim/God through Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ.

 

[Elihoenai]

That's what you say. I'm not convinced.

Romans 14:5

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Not being convinced by others is a characteristic that is required for a True Christian. A True Christian is fully persuaded in their own mind.

Couldn't you be one of these people, as you claim an absolute truth but are just a fallible mortal prone to error, and you could be trying to deceive others.

If you were humble it would suggest you aren't being deceptive. So you sabotage your own assertions here.

Exactly, I could be a Devil Worshipper deceiving to lead astray. That's why every person must study and experience the Scriptures/Bible for themselves and not depend on second-hand accounts from others.

Yet those leaders claim to have the truth, just as you are. So with so many different Christians claiming they have the truth, who is correct? None of you can offer any test in reality, it's all just personal interpretation and opinion.

Yes, the leaders of all the different Churches claim to have the Truth and Billions of their congregations. The personal interpretations and opinions are because they don't want to do the requirements of the Original Christian Doctrine.

Extremism in religion is a liability. You are still a fallible mortal, not a God. So the more certain you are that you have the truth the farther away you get from humility. The more you claim absolute truth, and can't demonstrate you actually have it, the more deceptive your view becomes. So you trap yourself with your own extremism.

That's from your external perspective. How things appear to others is not a concern for True followers of Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ.

 

[ElishaElijah]

And another thing, the people are part of the building process of creation, not separate. If the people fail, creation fails. If a creator sets rules for the people it creates, it had better make sure those people will follow the rules. God didn't.

You mean make robots and be a tyrant? Would rather give people the choice and ability to love or reject, also make a way back when they get lost. What an awesome God and Creator!

 

[Elihoenai]

A saint in NT parlance is a 'born again' believer. It's someone who is being sanctified by the work of the Spirit.

John 3:5

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


@Redemptionsong Do you have the Scripture that supports your statement that a "Saint is a Born Again Believer"? Are you saying that you are a Saint? Do you agree with Yeshua/Jesus when he instructs to be Born of Water and of the Spirit? You appear to be rejecting the requirement for John the Baptist water Baptism.

 

[Redemptionsong]

According to the Genesis myths.


It wasn't found, it was created by the God. Unless you are suggesting it was an accident, and if so, this God is incompetent. If you suggest God is perfect or doesn't make mistakes, then how the universe was created is EXACTLY as intended.

If you build something with the intent of it lasting 100 years, and it starts falling apart after 10 years, you screwed up.


I don't accept this religious dogma, so it isn't applicable to me. I don't recognize the concept of sin, so I'm not a sinner.

If you decide to believe all these ideas are true, then you are a sinner, and you decide to deal with the consequences that your religions says.


And the Bible has no authority over me or anyone else who doesn't assign it authority or significance.

Do you agree?

Why would l agree? Your philosophy of life is based on subjectivism. You're asking me to choose between you and God! Is that a choice?

Can you not see that Adam's sin was like yours. He thought he knew better than God!

Subjective love is self-love. Objective love is true righteousness.

 

[Redemptionsong]

I wouldn't rely on the testimony of the false prophet Paul for your "salvation". Those who are "saved"/"survive" during the day of the LORD (Joel 2:31-32) are those on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem. The "day of the LORD" happens at the beginnning of the millennium, not the end. If you haven't entered into "life" (Matthew 19:17) before death, don't expect to have anything to do with the "first resurrection" which is constituted by those who heed the testimony of Yeshua and keep the Commandments of God (Revelation 14:12) The "second death" addressed by Rev 20:6, refers to those not in the first resurrection, which happens 1000 years after the first resurrection. The second death is after the white throne judgment, regarding those not in the book of life, who are thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:15). Those who escape the "second death" are those who "overcome" (Revelation 2:11). As for the "soul", it is a combination of dust and the breath of life from God. When you die, the breath of life returns to God, and is without a body, and cannot hear or speak.

What do you think is the difference between the righteousness of a man under the law, and the righteousness of a man under grace?

 

[Subduction Zone]

John 3:5

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


@Redemptionsong Do you have the Scripture that supports your statement that a "Saint is a Born Again Believer"? Are you saying that you are a Saint? Do you agree with Yeshua/Jesus when he instructs to be Born of Water and of the Spirit? You appear to be rejecting the requirement for John the Baptist water Baptism.

Let's ignore the verses that you quote for right now. How do you demonstrate that the Bible itself is reliable? That is a huge stumbling block that I have yet to see any theist explain about their holy book. What you are doing now sounds just like a Fantasy Fiction Debate. Arguing about whether Superman could The Flash in a race or other such wastes of time. (by the way, if there is no cheating the answer is Superman, it is always Superman).

 

[Redemptionsong]

John 3:5

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


@Redemptionsong Do you have the Scripture that supports your statement that a "Saint is a Born Again Believer"? Are you saying that you are a Saint? Do you agree with Yeshua/Jesus when he instructs to be Born of Water and of the Spirit? You appear to be rejecting the requirement for John the Baptist water Baptism.

No, l'm not rejecting John's baptism. Repentance is important, and is symbolised by the washing with water. Receiving the Holy Spirit is empowering, and is symbolised by fire. The two sides in baptism, human and divine, make up the one baptism.

I do believe that all who are sanctified by the Spirit through faith are saints.This includes all who lived by faith and hope in Christ in the OT.

There are numerous references to the saints.

Daniel 7:18. 'But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever'.

See Ephesians 2:18-22.

 

[ElishaElijah]

One way to save your God from this horrible scenario, and being held accountable for children dying of cancer, is to NOT interpret Genesis literally. That's on literalist Christians. These folks make an unprovoked error by adopting this type of interpretation. The irony is that this decision (to interpret Genesis literally) means they hold God accountable for the consequences of the Fall since that was God's design. A&E was God's design. It suggests God is either inept or corrupt. God either makes mistakes, or it doesn't. If God really, really wanted to make obedient people don't you you think God could pull it off?

God doesn’t need saving, we do. Adam wasn’t deceived Eve was. God doesn’t make mistakes, He is perfect. When do you believe your speculation will be revealed as true or false?

 

[Subduction Zone]

God doesn’t need saving, we do. Adam wasn’t deceived Eve was. God doesn’t make mistakes, He is perfect. When do you believe your speculation will be revealed as true or false?

How was Eve deceived? Since the Serpent was the only one that did not lie in that story it sounds as if you are claiming that either God or Adam lied to her.

 

[ElishaElijah]

How was Eve deceived? Since the Serpent was the only one that did not lie in that story it sounds as if you are claiming that either God or Adam lied to her.

“But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.”
‭‭II Corinthians‬ ‭11:3‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[Subduction Zone]

“But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.”
‭‭II Corinthians‬ ‭11:3‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Sorry, but that does not support you. That is just another believer in myth that like you appears to have misinterpreted those verses. You would need to find the Serpent's lies in Genesis, not in the New Testament.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Sorry, but that does not support you. That is just another believer in myth that like you appears to have misinterpreted those verses. You would need to find the Serpent's lies in Genesis, not in the New Testament.

The Bible supports itself, it’s you who need the proper teacher. The Holy Spirit.

 

[F1fan]

John 14:6

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

That's a split in mainstream Christianity you are talking about. Those that are Seeking the Original Christian Truth are only concerned with Salvation and Union with Elohim/God through Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ.

A split suggests two factions in Christianity. There are vastly more than that. Just look at Catholics versus Protestants. How many Protestants sects are there? Who knows. You have liberal to moderate to conservative to extremist in Christianity. That's a lot of disagreement. Everyone thinks they are saved. There's reason for doubt.

 

[F1fan]

You mean make robots and be a tyrant?

Is being mature and wise like being a robot? Are you a robot by driving the speed limit and following other rules? There's a reason teenagers need adult supervision and often get in trouble: they are immature and don't follow the rules. Adam and Eve acted like teenagers who were duped by an adult who took advantage of their immaturity and lack of wisdom.

Would rather give people the choice and ability to love or reject, also make a way back when they get lost. What an awesome God and Creator!

That's not what the A&E story was about. They didn't understand the consequences.

 

[ElishaElijah]

That's not what the A&E story was about. They didn't understand the consequences.

How do you know? You say they were like teenagers yet named all the animals, took care of the garden. Don’t think you thought that through.
Are you like you say they were, not understanding the consequences of your actions, especially rejecting God? Ever think maybe the serpent is more crafty than you think, has deceived you?

 

[F1fan]

God doesn’t need saving, we do.

Don't forget the global flood happened before we needed saving. The flood didn't fix anything either. Salvation hasn't fixed anything since. All salvation has done (since the Christians changed the meaning from the Jewish) was give a reason for believers to join a religion. There is nothing that suggests there is any salvation. The who set of ideas, from the Jesus myth to salvation itself, is absurd and implausible. The whole Jesus myth is Rube Goldberg type theology. It's all unnecessarily complex.

On top of that, many Christians behave as if they aren't all that convinced it's true. The more conservative the Christian the less like Jesus they behave. I'd think they would be bending over backwards to appear to be like Jesus, just to assure a place in heaven.

Adam wasn’t deceived Eve was.

A box set.

God doesn’t make mistakes, He is perfect.

Then why was Eve so easily duped? If God wanted them to be obedient, what happened when God created her?

When do you believe your speculation will be revealed as true or false?

If you are referring to my assessment, it will be revealed as true what God actually shows himself to be real and not imagined.