Arming Teachers: A college students perspective

[PureX]

Do you think that all armed deputies would fail where one did?

I think most of them would, because it takes a lot of expensive training to teach people how to overcome their instinct for self-preservation. And we won't spend a penny on anything but tax breaks for the rich, right now.

If we dismissed 'all' because of one failure, we wouldn't do anything, surely?

You're talking MILLIONS of trained armed guards around MILLIONS of schools. It's NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN. Republicans won't even pay for kids school lunches. You think they're going to hire and train millions of armed guards? And what would that say about our culture, anyway? That we have collectively completely lost our minds.

 

[esmith]

I think most of them would, because it takes a lot of expensive training to teach people how to overcome their instinct for self-preservation. And we won't spend a penny on anything but tax breaks for the rich, right now.
You're talking MILLIONS of trained armed guards around MILLIONS of schools. It's NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN. Republicans won't even pay for kids school lunches. You think they're going to hire and train millions of armed guards? And what would that say about our culture, anyway? That we have collectively completely lost our minds.

Why don't you do a little research before executing a knee-jerk reaction
https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/07/30/at-least-7-states-now-have-armed-staff-in-schools

 

[Revoltingest]

Why don't you do a little research before executing a knee-jerk reaction
https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/07/30/at-least-7-states-now-have-armed-staff-in-schools

From your link....

Ken Trump, a national school safety consultant, says the ideal solution is for school districts to put certified law enforcement officers on campus – such as through the U.S. Department of Justice's School Resource Officer program – rather than give security duties to school staff.

I don't trust this guy.
His name just rubs me the wrong way.

Something interesting in the news today debunks the notion that armed self defense fails because defenders will shoot the wrong person, or cower in terror.
Mom-daughter duo shoot would-be robber in their liquor store
There was a more thorough Fox News article, but I
didn't link it (to avoid the mandatory trigger warning).

Cops captured the perp as a result of the mother & daughter shooting (but not killing) him.
They believe he's responsible for over a dozen armed robberies.
These gals did what the cops couldn't by virtue of being the potential victims.
This also debunks the popular notion that armed self defense is about killing the assailant.
No, it's about "stopping" the attack.

 

[Polymath257]

Ok, what's a better idea?

Have security doors with cameras in schools that require people to buzz in after classes start? That would prevent a random person off the street from coming in and blasting away. Having a two-door security with them locked from one direction and always open in the other would improve upon that. At least slow down any would-be attackers so that the cops can get there and handle the situation professionally.

After that, having extensive background checks that prevent people with a history of violent crimes or abuse from getting guns, whether in shops or gun shows. And how about having the original buyer of a gun responsible for any crimes that gun is used in if the gun was not appropriately secured after purchase and then stolen?

 

[Nakosis]

The armed deputy they had there did nothing. So that didn't work, either.

I guess we're just **** out of luck then.

 

[oldbadger]

I think most of them would, because it takes a lot of expensive training to teach people how to overcome their instinct for self-preservation. And we won't spend a penny on anything but tax breaks for the rich, right now.
You're talking MILLIONS of trained armed guards around MILLIONS of schools. It's NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN. Republicans won't even pay for kids school lunches. You think they're going to hire and train millions of armed guards? And what would that say about our culture, anyway? That we have collectively completely lost our minds.

I acknowledge your point about tight rightwingers.
I don't think you need millions of guards. I read that you have circa 50000 state schools, is that about right? The private schools must be made to pay for all themselves.

 

[Nakosis]

Deputies, plural, if you read the article. Either way, I think you may be missing my point.

The point is to give up on any solution that you don't agree with?

 

[Revoltingest]

An interesting study on armed self defense from the Obama administration.....
https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/06/25/study-using-guns-for-defense-leads-to-fewer-injuries
JUST A MONTH AFTER THE shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary, President Obama called for an assessment of the existing research on gun violence and recommendations for more studies. Now, that assessment is out, and it delves deeply into what research shows us about why gun violence happens in this country – and also into how well the defensive use of guns work.
Citing four separate studies between 1988-2004, the assessment from the Institute of Medicine and the National Research Council says crime victims who use guns in self-defense have consistently lower injury rates than victims who use other strategies to protect themselves (other strategies include stalling, calling the police or using weapons such as knives or baseball bats).

 

[metis]

Even though as a former educator I would never carry a gun in the classroom, I feel that it's pretty much up to the school district and state as to what to do. I tend to not like "one size fits all" approaches.

 

[esmith]

Even though as a former educator I would never carry a gun in the classroom, I feel that it's pretty much up to the school district and state as to what to do. I tend to not like "one size fits all" approaches.

That would be totally up to each individual person. However, if a individual is qualified I see no reason for that person not being able to carry "concealed" in a school. I also see no problem with having a immediate response team of qualified individuals working and training with uniformed security personnel.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

The point is to give up on any solution that you don't agree with?

No.

 

[oldbadger]

I have never seen so much news about USA-Guns before, on British TV News.
Despite what so-called experts believe about it all, it seems that a noticeable % of US youth is beginning to make a very loud clamour for clamping down on guns.
If the call of American Youth hits enough decibels then I don't reckon that America can ignore such a demonstration.

 

[PureX]

I have never seen so much news about USA-Guns before, on British TV News.
Despite what so-called experts believe about it all, it seems that a noticeable % of US youth is beginning to make a very loud clamour for clamping down on guns.
If the call of American Youth hits enough decibels then I don't reckon that America can ignore such a demonstration.

The U.S. legislature is totally corrupted at this point by legalized bribery. They routinely ignore the will of the people in favor of the will of those paying them the bribe money. And children can't even vote. So I wouldn't be holding my breath that American politicians will suddenly begin listening to school children about anything.

 

[oldbadger]

The U.S. legislature is totally corrupted at this point by legalized bribery. They routinely ignore the will of the people in favor of the will of those paying them the bribe money. And children can't even vote. So I wouldn't be holding my breath that American politicians will suddenly begin listening to school children about anything.

Fair enough......... let's see how it pans out.
You could be right.
But it does hit the headlines here, and the NRA looks more extremist each day as it accuses even large companies of cowardice for withdrawing funding.
I don't think that semi-autos will get banned, but I do think that additional controls might be introduced.

 

[PureX]

Fair enough......... let's see how it pans out.
You could be right.
But it does hit the headlines here, and the NRA looks more extremist each day as it accuses even large companies of cowardice for withdrawing funding.
I don't think that semi-autos will get banned, but I do think that additional controls might be introduced.

The NRA is just responding to the extremism of it's supporters. Idiots, mostly, who think freedom and autonomy come from the barrel of a gun.

 

[esmith]

The NRA is just responding to the extremism of it's supporters. Idiots, mostly, who think freedom and autonomy come from the barrel of a gun.

Well I guess you think over 5 million people are idiots. That's understandable considering the source.

 

[PureX]

Well I guess you think over 5 million people are idiots. That's understandable considering the source.

Oh, believe me when I tell you that WAY MORE that 5 million of we Americans are just flat out, willful, and oh-so-proud-to-be, ... idiots!

 

[averageJOE]

I think that you are overlooking the fact that many teachers probably already have CC permits and may have weapons training. Also, no teacher is being forced to carry a weapon but if an honest poll was taken I'd be willing to bet the results would be at least mildly surprising.

Some Teachers Already Have Guns

Garbage. A CC permit and some "training" does not make one proficient. A CC permit only shows that you gave someone money and in exchange they gave a a piece of paper saying played with a gun for 6 hours. Heck, some states let you take a 30 minute course online and let you download a certificate. As each day goes by, with each new mass shooting, with each talk about gun restrictions makes more and more CC permit courses popping up in every corner being taught by some shmuck. They are just mills now. To me, a CC permit means nothing anymore.

 

[Revoltingest]

Garbage. A CC permit and some "training" does not make one proficient. A CC permit only shows that you gave someone money and in exchange they gave a a piece of paper saying played with a gun for 6 hours. Heck, some states let you take a 30 minute course online and let you download a certificate. As each day goes by, with each new mass shooting, with each talk about gun restrictions makes more and more CC permit courses popping up in every corner being taught by some shmuck. They are just mills now. To me, a CC permit means nothing anymore.

Things must be incredibly lax where you live.
Not so in Michiganistan. But still, I say far more
training is appropriate.

 

[BSM1]

Things must be incredibly lax where you live.
Not so in Michiganistan. But still, I say far more
training is appropriate.

Exactly.