Arming Teachers: A college students perspective

[Ponder This]

"It's a crazy proposal," said Dr. David Hemenway, a professor of health policy at Harvard School of Public Health and an expert on the public health impact of gun violence. Chuckling, he added, "So what should we do about reducing airline hijacking? Give all the passengers guns as they walk on?"

'Colossally stupid idea': Trump's plan to arm teachers widely panned by experts

What is more colossally stupid than disarming responsible, rational, proficient gun-owners so that violent lunatics have a larger field of defenseless innocents to harm?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

What is more colossally stupid than disarming responsible, rational, proficient gun-owners so that violent lunatics have a larger field of defenseless innocents to harm?

right cause teachers don't have enough things to worry about right?

 

[BSM1]

right cause teachers don't have enough things to worry about right?

Unfortunately it now comes with the territory.

 

[idav]

What is more colossally stupid than disarming responsible, rational, proficient gun-owners so that violent lunatics have a larger field of defenseless innocents to harm?

Giving teenagers access to weapons via teachers. It’s not teachers jobs to be security , what do we want them to clean the schools and do cafeteria duty while they are at it?

 

[BSM1]

Giving teenagers access to weapons via teachers. It’s not teachers jobs to be security , what do we want them to clean the schools and do cafeteria duty while they are at it?

So are you saying teachers have no obligation to make sure their young charges do not have a clean school or food to eat at lunch time?

 

[Revoltingest]

Giving teenagers access to weapons via teachers. It’s not teachers jobs to be security , what do we want them to clean the schools and do cafeteria duty while they are at it?

If school staff is armed, it's pretty reasonable to expect they won't
be teenagers, or otherwise too immature for the responsibility.

It doesn't seem useful to take a limited job description, & restrict
school staff to that, denying them the opportunity to address a
compelling need which is outside their normal function.
Suppose that a school nurse is carrying a concealed handgun,
& sees an assailant shooting students...
He/she shouldn't be prevented from defending oneself &
others just because it's not in the formal job description.

 

[idav]

So are you saying teachers have no obligation to make sure their young charges do not have a clean school or food to eat at lunch time?

If school staff is armed, it's pretty reasonable to expect they won't
be teenagers, or otherwise too immature for the responsibility.

It doesn't seem useful to take a limited job description, & restrict
school staff to that, denying them the opportunity to address a
compelling need which is outside their normal function.
Suppose that a school nurse is carrying a concealed handgun,
& sees an assailant shooting students...
He/she shouldn't be prevented from defending oneself &
others just because it's not in the formal job description.

I’m saying teachers need to teach maybe even including handling sociological issues. That’s seems like enough to handle on its own. You want a trained principle or PE teacher maybe. Trained school nurse, no not so much, that’s a totally different profession.

The teachers have too much access to students in close proximity and is only asking for trouble by arming their teachers. Half the teachers can probably be taken down by some of those older teenage students with no weapon involved.

 

[esmith]

I’m saying teachers need to teach maybe even including handling sociological issues. That’s seems like enough to handle on its own. You want a trained principle or PE teacher maybe. Trained school nurse, no not so much, that’s a totally different profession.

The teachers have too much access to students in close proximity and is only asking for trouble by arming their teachers. Half the teachers can probably be taken down by some of those older teenage students with no weapon involved.

Well to start with I think you are exhibiting a little bit of caveman mentality making the ***-umption that teachers and other school staff are weak-need cream-puffs. I don't know what your social circle of acquaintances are but it sure doesn't reflect those that I interact with. As a range safety officer, we get quite a few of I guess what you consider the "can't-handle-it crowd".
I really don't understand your fixation of a student taking a weapon away from someone.....they call it concealed carry remember, in addition nothing says the weapon has to be on the first responder, just accessible to that person.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

If school staff is armed, it's pretty reasonable to expect they won't
be teenagers, or otherwise too immature for the responsibility.

It doesn't seem useful to take a limited job description, & restrict
school staff to that, denying them the opportunity to address a
compelling need which is outside their normal function.
Suppose that a school nurse is carrying a concealed handgun,
& sees an assailant shooting students...
He/she shouldn't be prevented from defending oneself &
others just because it's not in the formal job description.

I'm a college professor, not a commando.

It is stupid to arm teachers considering that if you have ever been to a lecture hall there are over 100 students in one lecture hall. That means certain classes that have sensitive subjects the teachers have to walk on eggshells and the students have to fly over them less they **** a teacher off.

A ‘White Racism’ class just started at a Florida university. Police were on standby.

The class, according to its course description, will confront “white racism and white supremacy.” It will examine “racist ideologies, laws, policies and practices” that “maintain white racial domination.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...olice-were-on-standby/?utm_term=.076e8a03ec6d

If you don't think this will influence violence then you may be an ostrich.....Teachers don't need guns, how do you account for the success teachers have experienced in the past?

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm a college professor, not a commando.

Carrying a concealed weapon is not for everyone.
This is why I oppose "arming teachers".
It should be up to the individual school worker to
take on this responsibility on their own initiative.
(Of course, reasonable standards should be met.)

Btw, I'm no commando either....no longer spry enuf anyway.

 

[Revoltingest]

It is stupid to arm teachers....

Which is why I advocate against that.
I favor allowing only those motivated & capable
to take on the responsibility of concealed carry.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Carrying a concealed weapon is not for everyone.
This is why I oppose "arming teachers".
It should be up to the individual school worker to
take on this responsibility on their own initiative.
(Of course, reasonable standards should be met.)

Btw, I'm no commando either....no longer spry enuf anyway.

Teachers should not carry period what part of this does not sink? Teachers get mental breakdowns I've seen this with my own two eyes in class. Teachers come to class after having their lover tell them they want a divorce. Teachers like people have emotions and if this boils over and they lose their focus they can inadvertently discharge their firearm in class. Why take that chance? You are suggesting something that can have legal repercussions. We've already had people asking for guns i9n churches and look what happens a guy accidentally shoots himself.

We have a cop teaching a class and look what happens:

LOL teachers regardless if they want to or not should not carry...period....If this happens I want the damn state held accountable if I get shot and paralyzed. That school will be named Epic Bearded Man University after I'm done....

 

[Revoltingest]

I’m saying teachers need to teach maybe even including handling sociological issues. That’s seems like enough to handle on its own.

For teachers who are unprepared to take on additional responsibility, they don't have to.

It seems that you're arguing against a position I don't hold.
Capable teachers & other school staff who want to become
trained (& perhaps specially licensed) to carry a concealed
handgun in schools should have that right.

You want a trained principle or PE teacher maybe. Trained school nurse, no not so much, that’s a totally different profession.

There's nothing inherent in being a nurse which precludes becoming a capable armed defender.
Not all nurses are old women.
And not all old women should be presumed incapable.
It's up to the individual.

The teachers have too much access to students in close proximity and is only asking for trouble by arming their teachers. Half the teachers can probably be taken down by some of those older teenage students with no weapon involved.

Is this a significant problem, ie, students "taking down" teachers?
When cops are in schools, has it been a problem that students
take them down to steal their handgun?

Compare this to the demonstrable problem that deranged people
attack schools knowing that they're always undefended. I say it's
better to address real problems than to be paralyzed by imagined ones.

 

[Revoltingest]

Teachers should not carry period what part of this does not sink?

This is your opinion.
I disagree.

Teachers get mental breakdowns I've seen this with my own two eyes in class. Teachers come to class after having their lover tell them they want a divorce. Teachers like people have emotions and if this boils over and they lose their focus they can inadvertently discharge their firearm in class. Why take that chance? You are suggesting something that can have legal repercussions. We've already had people asking for guns i9n churches and look what happens a guy accidentally shoots himself.

We have a cop teaching a class and look what happens:

LOL teachers regardless if they want to or not should not carry...period....If this happens I want the damn state held accountable if I get shot and paralyzed. That school will be named Epic Bearded Man University after I'm done....

I've posted that same video many times.
Clearly, that cop was very poorly trained.
School staff who carry concealed should be trained differently
from cops, who are trained to be aggressive in gun usage,
& end up with poor safety practices..

 

[Epic Beard Man]

This is your opinion.
I disagree.

I've posted that same video many times.
Clearly, that cop was very poorly trained.
School staff who carry concealed should be trained differently
from cops, who are trained to be aggressive in gun usage,
& end up with poor safety practices..

I guess you miss the point of legal repercussions.....It doesn't matter how much training you have, accidents happen. Humans are flawed and no matter how much of a thing we practice we can still fail. Schools with budgeting issues would experience a legal nightmare if this happens. Schools like mines like USC, UCLA, Stanford, Princeton, Yale etc can take a chance because they have donors and receive hundreds of millions of dollars. Other schools not so lucky. You have to look at the potentiality of losing money if this goes bad regardless of training. To train teachers assumes risk and if you assume risk you need an insurance policy in case the risk actualizes itself in the form of an accident.

 

[Revoltingest]

I guess you miss the point of legal repercussions.....It doesn't matter how much training you have, accidents happen. Humans are flawed and no matter how much of a thing we practice we can still fail. Schools with budgeting issues would experience a legal nightmare if this happens. Schools like mines like USC, UCLA, Stanford, Princeton, Yale etc can take a chance because they have donors and receive hundreds of millions of dollars. Other schools not so lucky. You have to look at the potentiality of losing money if this goes bad regardless of training. To train teachers assumes risk and if you assume risk you need an insurance policy in case the risk actualizes itself in the form of an accident.

When weighing 2 alternatives (undefended vs defended schools), it's necessary to look
at costs & benefits of each. It's unreasonable to oppose defended schools just because
accidents can happen. As all can see, there's great risk in doing nothing. What matters
is whether there's net benefit. Defended schools offer the possibility of both reducing
the number of attacks on schools, & ending conflicts earlier than waiting for cops to show up.
With more states considering allowing armed staff, we should see some data to illuminate
this alternative.

As for legal repercussions, there should be some for schools which are advertised as
soft targets, yet fail to take reasonable security measures to deal with violent assailants.

 

[BSM1]

I’m saying teachers need to teach maybe even including handling sociological issues. That’s seems like enough to handle on its own. You want a trained principle or PE teacher maybe. Trained school nurse, no not so much, that’s a totally different profession.

The teachers have too much access to students in close proximity and is only asking for trouble by arming their teachers. Half the teachers can probably be taken down by some of those older teenage students with no weapon involved.

So, if a teacher observes that one of his/her students have obviously been physically abused outside of class, that teacher should simply "teach" and take no further action?

 

[idav]

For teachers who are unprepared to take on additional responsibility, they don't have to.

It seems that you're arguing against a position I don't hold.
Capable teachers & other school staff who want to become
trained (& perhaps specially licensed) to carry a concealed
handgun in schools should have that right.

There's nothing inherent in being a nurse which precludes becoming a capable armed defender.
Not all nurses are old women.
And not all old women should be presumed incapable.
It's up to the individual.

Is this a significant problem, ie, students "taking down" teachers?
When cops are in schools, has it been a problem that students
take them down to steal their handgun?

Compare this to the demonstrable problem that deranged people
attack schools knowing that they're always undefended. I say it's
better to address real problems than to be paralyzed by imagined ones.

What your saying is that if a teacher has the qualifications let them. What I am saying is that teachers in a classroom setting is a dangerous proposition. Other positions not as dangerous, really depending. Guns should be a last resort to other options like pepper spray, stun guns, bullet proof doors, doors with pass codes etc.

 

[Revoltingest]

What your saying is that if a teacher has the qualifications let them. What I am saying is that teachers in a classroom setting is a dangerous proposition. Other positions not as dangerous, really depending. Guns should be a last resort to other options like pepper spray, stun guns, bullet proof doors, doors with pass codes etc.

Of course it's dangerous, but I maintain that it's less dangerous than the status quo.
In the context of school shootings, school staff armed with pepper spray & stun guns
could be useful, but less so than guns, which have better range & capacity.
Facility design can enhance this.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

What your saying is that if a teacher has the qualifications let them. What I am saying is that teachers in a classroom setting is a dangerous proposition. Other positions not as dangerous, really depending. Guns should be a last resort to other options like pepper spray, stun guns, bullet proof doors, doors with pass codes etc.

It’s ok I guess my perspective as a student does not count