Arming Teachers: A college students perspective

[ImmortalFlame]

(*sigh*) OK...OK...what's your plan exactly?

I thought that was pretty obvious from the post, really.

 

[Revoltingest]

Lighten up!

Is "Jebus Chysler" not light enuf?

 

[BSM1]

I thought that was pretty obvious from the post, really.

Specifically, please. With details of how to implement your plans, and what results can you guarantee.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

and what results can you guarantee.

Do you demand that level of surety from your own preferred plan?

 

[BSM1]

Do you demand that level of surety from your own preferred plan?

It comes a lot closer to protecting children then spouting off empty rhetoric that looks good on posters and bumper stickers. Where's the beef?

 

[suncowiam]

It comes a lot closer to protecting children then spouting off empty rhetoric that looks good on posters and bumper stickers. Where's the beef?

Are you absolutely sure it comes closer to protecting the children?

There's a level of confidence that I find is not representative of statistics. The general rule is that when fire arms are introduced to an environment, there is more risk to the non-owners. Are you ABSOLUTELY sure that when guns are introduced to schools legally, that the children are safer than if guns were not legally allowed?

There's no level of detail so far to answer this objectively. We use subjective terms like trained enough. In the US, just because a person legally owns a gun absolutely does not mean they have been trained well enough.

As a parent that could possibly be the first generation to test some of these theories with my children, I could not be more scared than confident of such proposals without knowing more details.

 

[BSM1]

Are you absolutely sure it comes closer to protecting the children?

There's a level of confidence that I find is not representative of statistics. The general rule is that when fire arms are introduced to an environment, there is more risk to the non-owners. Are you ABSOLUTELY sure that when guns are introduced to schools legally, that the children are safer than if guns were not legally allowed?

There's no level of detail so far to answer this objectively. We use subjective terms like trained enough. In the US, just because a person legally owns a gun absolutely does not mean they have been trained well enough.

As a parent that could possibly be the first generation to test some of these theories with my children, I could not be more scared than confident of such proposals without knowing more details.

Absolutely. Unequivocally. Without a doubt. You see where I'm going with this? But the post we were talking about was basically hardening the schools and not necessarily about guns only.

 

[Revoltingest]

There's a level of confidence that I find is not representative of statistics. The general rule is that when fire arms are introduced to an environment, there is more risk to the non-owners.

This is often claimed.
And I've no doubt that claimants sincerely believe it.
But where's the analysis?

 

[suncowiam]

This is often claimed.
And I've no doubt that claimants sincerely believe it.
But where's the analysis?

Does owning a gun make you safer?

Even though the article is from LA Times which I would acknowledge as a probable biased view on the left, I would suggest to focus more that the author is a professor from Harvard university.
"David Hemenway is a professor at the Harvard School of Public Health and director of the Harvard Injury Control Research Center."

"Almost two-thirds of the people in the U.S. population live in homes without guns, and there is no evidence that the inhabitants of these homes are at greater risk of being robbed, injured or killed by criminals compared with citizens in homes with guns. Instead, the evidence is overwhelming that a gun in the home increases the likelihood not only that a household member will be shot accidentally, but also that someone in the home will die in a suicide or homicide."

All I'm saying is that we have to be sure that introducing fire arms to the school environment is overall beneficial and not adding further risk to a problem. I can't see how we're solving something when there's increased chance of accidental injuries.

 

[suncowiam]

Absolutely. Unequivocally. Without a doubt. You see where I'm going with this? But the post we were talking about was basically hardening the schools and not necessarily about guns only.

Ok, my apologies from stepping in the middle of a conversation.

 

[Revoltingest]

Does owning a gun make you safer?

Even though the article is from LA Times which I would acknowledge as a probable biased view on the left, I would suggest to focus more that the author is a professor from Harvard university.
"David Hemenway is a professor at the Harvard School of Public Health and director of the Harvard Injury Control Research Center."

"Almost two-thirds of the people in the U.S. population live in homes without guns, and there is no evidence that the inhabitants of these homes are at greater risk of being robbed, injured or killed by criminals compared with citizens in homes with guns. Instead, the evidence is overwhelming that a gun in the home increases the likelihood not only that a household member will be shot accidentally, but also that someone in the home will die in a suicide or homicide."

All I'm saying is that we have to be sure that introducing fire arms to the school environment is overall beneficial and not adding further risk to a problem. I can't see how we're solving something when there's increased chance of accidental injuries.

The statistics cited in the article conflict hugely with others cited in various threads.
They range from a low of 67+K/year (United S Census Bureau) to millions (Gary Kleck).
Ref....
Gun and self-defense statistics that might surprise you -- and the NRA

About guns in the home.....
They're often just stored there, & used in self defense elsewhere.
I keep mine in a hidden safe. I live in a low crime area.
I used to shoot competitively, with much training.
I have a stable family...no mental illness, no depression, no discord.
Your statistics ignore these circumstances, & don't affect my decision.

 

[suncowiam]

The statistics cited in the article conflict hugely with others cited in various threads.
They range from a low of 67+K/year (United S Census Bureau) to millions (Gary Kleck).
Ref....
Gun and self-defense statistics that might surprise you -- and the NRA

About guns in the home.....
They're often just stored there, & used in self defense elsewhere.
I keep mine in a hidden safe. I live in a low crime area.
I used to shoot competitively, with much training.
I have a stable family...no mental illness, no depression, no discord.
Your statistics ignore these circumstances, & don't affect my decision.

I wasn't addressing the debate on guns as self-defense. I see that David Hemenway and Gary Kleck disagreed on the methodology used so I could only say its a wash between expects on the the topic of self-defense.

As you noted, I was addressing the topic of risk to other members in the family when guns are introduced to the household. That was not a personal criticism of you, of course. Individuals absolutely can control this risk. I truly believe that but that becomes a product of personal choice and commitment but not of a general process. Statistics, otherwise suggests that generally when guns are introduced to the household, there is an increased chance of injury to other house hold members. It's just best to say that not everyone is fully committed to safely storing their fire arms versus the amount of harm done to family members with access to fire arms. Coming back to the school environment, how am I ensured that the teacher is as committed as you are to the responsible storage of a firearm while he is at school.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

It comes a lot closer to protecting children then spouting off empty rhetoric that looks good on posters and bumper stickers. Where's the beef?

And you can guarantee that, can you?

 

[BSM1]

And you can guarantee that, can you?

Absolutely. Now let's do it.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Absolutely. Now let's do it.

I'm curious to see the basis for your "guarantee ", first, please?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

I wasn't addressing the debate on guns as self-defense. I see that David Hemenway and Gary Kleck disagreed on the methodology used so I could only say its a wash between expects on the the topic of self-defense.

As you noted, I was addressing the topic of risk to other members in the family when guns are introduced to the household. That was not a personal criticism of you, of course. Individuals absolutely can control this risk. I truly believe that but that becomes a product of personal choice and commitment but not of a general process. Statistics, otherwise suggests that generally when guns are introduced to the household, there is an increased chance of injury to other house hold members. It's just best to say that not everyone is fully committed to safely storing their fire arms versus the amount of harm done to family members with access to fire arms. Coming back to the school environment, how am I ensured that the teacher is as committed as you are to the responsible storage of a firearm while he is at school.

And further... an appropriately stored firearm isn't exactly ready for immediate use in a self defence situation, so the two ideas seem a little oxymoronic.

 

[Revoltingest]

I wasn't addressing the debate on guns as self-defense. I see that David Hemenway and Gary Kleck disagreed on the methodology used so I could only say its a wash between expects on the the topic of self-defense.

As you noted, I was addressing the topic of risk to other members in the family when guns are introduced to the household. That was not a personal criticism of you, of course. Individuals absolutely can control this risk. I truly believe that but that becomes a product of personal choice and commitment but not of a general process. Statistics, otherwise suggests that generally when guns are introduced to the household, there is an increased chance of injury to other house hold members. It's just best to say that not everyone is fully committed to safely storing their fire arms versus the amount of harm done to family members with access to fire arms. Coming back to the school environment, how am I ensured that the teacher is as committed as you are to the responsible storage of a firearm while he is at school.

I'm somewhat distracted, & have a few alerts, so I'll address the last part for now....
I think any teacher who carries should be very well trained, as
well as I am at least (although not for competition purposes).
Will it be that way? I doubt it. So we'll see what happens.
Hope for good enuf, & significant improvement.

Want more?
Make me dictator.
You & @esmith can assist in making & implementing policy.

 

[suncowiam]

And further... an appropriately stored firearm isn't exactly ready for immediate use in a self defence situation, so the two ideas seem a little oxymoronic.

Honestly, I do not know. If we can build a pattern of typical crimes then I think we can better answer that.

 

[suncowiam]

I'm somewhat distracted, & have a few alerts, so I'll address the last part for now....
I think any teacher who carries should be very well trained, as
well as I am at least (although not for competition purposes).
Will it be that way? I doubt it. So we'll see what happens.
Hope for good enuf, & significant improvement.

Want more?
Make me dictator.
You & @esmith can assist in making & implementing policy.

It's not that I would never support armed teachers but given how loose we are on the responsibility of gun ownership I just don't see it happening to a level where I can trust teachers to be armed. The devil's in the details...

 

[Revoltingest]

It's not that I would never support armed teachers but given how loose we are on the responsibility of gun ownership I just don't see it happening to a level where I can trust teachers to be armed. The devil's in the details...

Societies whole approach to guns....& drinking & driving need to change.
Again, I need to be made dictator...preferably in a velvet revolution (nothing violent).