Arming teachers is a great idea

[oldbadger]

I think you're right, but I'm always keen to give them enough rope hear their reality based, well researched evidence for their claims.

Fair enough.
I notice that none of the gung-ho gun nuts mentions the critical conditions associated with high conflict, and as you would know they are adrenal-crisis and fear. Nobody wants to mention 'fear', but after an incident, and armchair critics want to know why-this and why-that, it's essential to have the guts to mention that oneself was in adrenal-shock, shaking, and in fear as everything went down.

Arm the teachers????? Well sad!

 

[74x12]

Um, yes, yes I do. I keep my own guns locked up, believe me, if I were suddenly confronted with a situation where I needed to defend myself, my guns are out of the question. If you can think of a way to have guns safely locked away AND ready to be used defensively at the same time, I'm all ears. I can't imagine one, though.

But that's in your house I assume. What we're talking about is school shootings. So as a teacher you're possibly going to hear the shooting taking place in well enough time to get your weapon. On average, schools are much larger than your house. So why are you so dead set(pun intended) against teachers having access to weapons if they want to voluntarily receive some training and take this responsibility on themselves? Keep in mind I'm not saying they should go running out into the halls to stop a shooter. Instead they should take up a good defensive position where they can put the shooter down if the shooter comes there way.

 

[oldbadger]

What's daftest is advocate'n the status quo.
Think about it....
Schools have no security.
They advertise being gun free.

I'm advocating..... have been advocating........ effective perimeter security, access control and security officers.
........... and a wedge of controls.

No one can defend it...other than the cop cowering behind a concrete barrier outside.

Come on, Revolting.
Apart from the armchair warriors and ex-service-persons, nobody knows how the chips will go down in any given event. And the ex-service-persons don't often shoot their mouths off.

 

[oldbadger]

[Q wefrarefrasrfasrfasfasrfasrfadsrdfa

Waaaaaa...t?

No, that's daft, ya mewl'n, powdered wig wear'n, queen worship'n, 1812 war lose'n, Downton Abbey luver!

I'll bet you'd get well turned on by a powdered wig wearer.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm advocating..... have been advocating........ effective perimeter security, access control and security officers.
........... and a wedge of controls.

Security officers are pretty spendy relative to armed staff.
Access control is only labor intensive during a couple hours a day

Come on, Revolting.

Come on, Badger.
(How's that for clever & original?)

Apart from the armchair warriors and ex-service-persons, nobody knows how the chips will go down in any given event. And the ex-service-persons don't often shoot their mouths off.

I don't think ex-military is any advantage.
It all depends upon the individual.
With states legalizing armed staff, we'll eventually have data.

 

[Revoltingest]

Waaaaaa...t?

Was it not entirely clear?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

So why are you so dead set(pun intended) against teachers having access to weapons if they want to voluntarily receive some training and take this responsibility on themselves?

I don't believe I said that I am, did I? What I have done is ask basic questions about how it's meant to work.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Riding a bicycle.?

You don't forget how to balance on a bike, but if you get on a bike after a long time, you're still not as good as you once were.

Simply, if training once and never again was an effective way to do it, why do you think the military and emergency services drill constantly?

 

[Thief]

You don't forget how to balance on a bike, but if you get on a bike after a long time, you're still not as good as you once were.

Simply, if training once and never again was an effective way to do it, why do you think the military and emergency services drill constantly?

it would be a good thing if armed teachers would do some practice

but who is going to pay for all of those bullets?????

there.....I've gone and done it
the one thing that will kill the idea of arming the school staff

 

[Curious George]

You don't forget how to balance on a bike, but if you get on a bike after a long time, you're still not as good as you once were.

Simply, if training once and never again was an effective way to do it, why do you think the military and emergency services drill constantly?

Anecdotally, I rode a bike after many years of not. It took me longer to get my bearings when I first got on the bike. When I went between two trees I misjudged my handlebars and crashed. Another time I took a downhill corner and crashed. After a week or so, I felt very comfortable but I definitely think continual practice improves efficacy. Certainly there is a level of comfort that always remains and there is a quick accommodation process that occurs when returning to an old skill. But, this requires that the time spent in acquiring the skill is put in at some point in time. Even still, I would suggest that there are several levels of proficiency. I have never seen any person return to the pinnacle of proficiency upon engaging a skill after a prolonged periods of inactivity.

That said, I do wonder what is going on in our brains when we do pick return to a skill that we once had mastered.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Utah teacher shoots herself in the leg while at school

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Anecdotally, I rode a bike after many years of not. It took me longer to get my bearings when I first got on the bike. When I went between two trees I misjudged my handlebars and crashed. Another time I took a downhill corner and crashed. After a week or so, I felt very comfortable but I definitely think continual practice improves efficacy. Certainly there is a level of comfort that always remains and there is a quick accommodation process that occurs when returning to an old skill. But, this requires that the time spent in acquiring the skill is put in at some point in time. Even still, I would suggest that there are several levels of proficiency. I have never seen any person return to the pinnacle of proficiency upon engaging a skill after a prolonged periods of inactivity.

That said, I do wonder what is going on in our brains when we do pick return to a skill that we once had mastered.

Frankly, I'm amazed that "to stay good at something , you need to practice" is now a controversial statement.

 

[England my lionheart]

I think arming teachers logically will increase defense and security.

What do you think?

If it's fitted with a silencer it wouldn't disturb the rest of the class when in use.

 

[oldbadger]

Security officers are pretty spendy relative to armed staff.
Access control is only labor intensive during a couple hours a day

You're having a laugh.
Every premises containing minors should have a security officer at the premises. You're spending for the protection, security and welfare of both staff and children.
I think that there should be two security officers at such premises, one at the access point and one patrolling the premises, and whilst you're at it they should have good communications equipment, body armour and suitable defensive gear.
And Perimeter security is required with an Access Control system at the entrance.

It's very very simple, if you go cheapskate it will cost you, later on.

Come on, Badger.
(How's that for clever & original?)

I'm not clever, Revolting, I've just probably been involved in more and various fields about common-sense loss-reduction, profit protection, security and conflict reduction, intruder deterrents, access-controls, alarms etc than you have........
...... stick to steam, Revolting.

I don't think ex-military is any advantage.
It all depends upon the individual.
With states legalizing armed staff, we'll eventually have data.

At least military, security and police operatives have experienced varying levels of conflict on numerous occasions in their lives. They have a much better idea of how they will respond than somebody who, like you, just thinks.

 

[oldbadger]

But that's in your house I assume. What we're talking about is school shootings. So as a teacher you're possibly going to hear the shooting taking place in well enough time to get your weapon. On average, schools are much larger than your house. So why are you so dead set(pun intended) against teachers having access to weapons if they want to voluntarily receive some training and take this responsibility on themselves? Keep in mind I'm not saying they should go running out into the halls to stop a shooter. Instead they should take up a good defensive position where they can put the shooter down if the shooter comes there way.

The above was sent to @Armoured

You're focusing upon hearing gunshot noises and then having time to get your weapon. By the way, where did you leave this weapon?

Can you take me through this?
Imagine that you are a teacher.
Let's say that you are taking a class of twenty 15yr olds, a geography class.
The class is situated on the rear flank wall of the main building, looking out across playing fields through three large double glazed windows.
The class entrance/exit door opens onto a long corridor (accessing other classrooms) which runs parallel with the rear flank wall, within the building with fire-escapes at both ends and leading to the main-body of the building.

You at the front of the class when you hear noises like gunshots, sounding from deep within the main school building.

Your class begins to move, react and talk amongst itself at this point.

OK.......... off you go....... what exactly are are you going to do and in what order?

 

[Revoltingest]

You're having a laugh.

You remind me of Ricky Gervais in Extras.

Every premises containing minors should have a security officer at the premises. You're spending for the protection, security and welfare of both staff and children.

That isn't commonly done here.

I think that there should be two security officers at such premises, one at the access point and one patrolling the premises, and whilst you're at it they should have good communications equipment, body armour and suitable defensive gear.

Criminy, you have expensive dreams.

And Perimeter security is required with an Access Control system at the entrance.
It's very very simple, if you go cheapskate it will cost you, later on.

I think there's an approach which is both better & cheaper.

I'm not clever, Revolting, I've just probably been involved in more and various fields about common-sense loss-reduction, profit protection, security and conflict reduction, intruder deterrents, access-controls, alarms etc than you have........
...... stick to steam, Revolting.
At least military, security and police operatives have experienced varying levels of conflict on numerous occasions in their lives. They have a much better idea of how they will respond than somebody who, like you, just thinks.

Military types (in my hiring experience) aren't all that capable.
And their training is inappropriate.
Private security types are typically the dregs of society.
Police are expensive to have on site all the time.
Vetted & trained schools staff look to be the best solution because of cost & function.
Of course some large inner city schools could take the spendier approach.

 

[Jollybear]

You don't forget how to balance on a bike, but if you get on a bike after a long time, you're still not as good as you once were.

Simply, if training once and never again was an effective way to do it, why do you think the military and emergency services drill constantly?

I got on a bike after not being on one for about 10 years and i drove it with the same good ballence i had 10 years prior. I never lost it at all.

 

[oldbadger]

You remind me of Ricky Gervais in Extras.

I do really dislike that bloke.

That isn't commonly done here.
Criminy, you have expensive dreams.
I think there's an approach which is both better & cheaper.

OMG..... see why you lot are where you're at?
You want to spend tuppence, and then it costs you masses, in lives, responses, investigations, reparations and damages.

Military types (in my hiring experience) aren't all that capable.

So because you hired some military types for property-services work or whatever, you now think they won't be suitable for guarding duties?

And their training is inappropriate.

Their training is clearly beyond your recognition of what suitable training is. They've mostly been trained to do what they've been told to do, when they need to do it, how they're supposed to do it.
If you had been, say, a rifleman, who when under fire has first to communicate to a commanding officer and then wait for confirmation that return fire is supportable by top brass (oh yes, our guys n girls in Northern Ireland often experienced that kind of situation, as well as yours in the Gulf), then you're getting an operative who will probably be many times more cool than a history master.

Private security types are typically the dregs of society.

You're not hiring security officers for their position in society, you would be hiring them, inducting them, training them, selecting them and supporting them to do a very seriously important job.
You only get cr-p guards when you give them cr-p training and crap working conditions.
If you think guards are cr-p then you don't deserve better.

Police are expensive to have on site all the time.

The tight-wad approach has costed 50 school shootings in a year. Pay up for the lives of kids, and get a common-sense bunch of gun controls sorted.

Vetted & trained schools staff look to be the best solution because of cost & function.
Of course some large inner city schools could take the spendier approach.

Vetted and trained security staff can give their total attention to the objectives of access-control, conflict reduction and health-safety in the workplace.
It's time to show that you really care about your kids, before your gun-freedoms, maybe?

 

[oldbadger]

I got on a bike after not being on one for about 10 years and i drove it with the same good ballence i had 10 years prior. I never lost it at all.

Yeah, but face a killer who you know doesn't care about their own life anymore and you just might discover yourself to be weeing involuntarily as you freeze solid to the spot, wishing a properly trained security guard had been controlling access.

And I'm not being rude, shock n fear causes dreadful results in untrained, unready folks.

But your bike-ride....... no probs with that.

 

[oldbadger]

Utah teacher shoots herself in the leg while at school

This one of many accidents to come, I expect.
And wait for the lost handgun incidents to start cropping up.