Arming teachers is a great idea

[Kangaroo Feathers]

As a teacher, I think Teachers should have the option of bearing arms in the classroom. I have personally taught at schools and in classrooms where there was credible and targeted threats of shootings. As a Marine Corps veteran I am quite familiar both with guns and facing gun carrying hostile enemies.

Frankly I am fed up with some of the inane comments and straw man blather I have seen by some here. It is also quite obvious that some people commenting are ignorant about guns or what goes on in classrooms or both. Instead they want to deny teachers the right to defend themselves (and more importantly their students!) in the best way possible, simply to satisfy their own social justice warrior mind trips.

Anyone that wants to deny teachers the option to bear arms can step up and teach in these front line classrooms unarmed. Until then, they can take a hike.

You mean, like the teachers in classrooms of every other developed nation on the planet?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Yes, because allowing teachers to bear arms to protect themselves and their students will inevitably result in machine gun posts in the classrooms.

Go ahead and explain where you draw the line for "reasonable"?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

As a teacher, I think Teachers should have the option of bearing arms in the classroom. I have personally taught at schools and in classrooms where there was credible and targeted threats of shootings. As a Marine Corps veteran I am quite familiar both with guns and facing gun carrying hostile enemies.

Frankly I am fed up with some of the inane comments and straw man blather I have seen by some here. It is also quite obvious that some people commenting are ignorant about guns or what goes on in classrooms or both. Instead they want to deny teachers the right to defend themselves (and more importantly their students!) in the best way possible, simply to satisfy their own social justice warrior mind trips.

Anyone that wants to deny teachers the option to bear arms can step up and teach in these front line classrooms unarmed. Until then, they can take a hike.

I dunno, but maybe if teaching scares you so much, it's not the job for you?

 

[Mock Turtle]

Yes, because allowing teachers to bear arms to protect themselves and their students will inevitably result in machine gun posts in the classrooms.

Hardly, but it might increase the number of deaths, since the evidence seems to show, more guns = more deaths.

 

[Audie]

Why stop with arming the teachers? Why not arm the students too? Heck, I'm all for arming everyone in the school, and then militarizing it like we've done with our police departments. Shouldn't the football team have it's own main battle tank? I can't see why not. "Camouflage and Kevlar for the kids!" That's my view!

Now,if I had my way, every single gun in the world would be in the ocean, and no more could ever be made. Zero. I'd like the necessity for them to be gone first, tho!

For reasons not to go into, I myself carried a small pistol for a time. It seemed important enough to me to overcome a lot of aversion. But, you know, I did overcome it, and learned to use the thing. I learned a lot, and
changed some attitudes. (though I still want them all at the bottom of the Marianas trench)

One attitude change was toward "people who have guns". Gosh, surprise,
people are people!

I know your post is intended to be somewhat humorous, and it is, sort of.
I think the sarcasm is misplaced, though. Nobody, after all, is suggesting an extreme position such as you outline, and it distracts from a real discussion
to go off on flights of fantasy, dont you think so?

I personally would rather be in a classroom with an instructor who hardly
knew which end of the gun hurts-should a badguy appear-than one who might at best try to pink him with a sharp pencil.

One or two, certainly not all teachers, might have guns. A lot of teachers are ex-military. Even the chance of armed resistance might keep a badguy away.

Remember the opposition to pilots having a gun? Sheeeeesh. I'd sure want the pilot to have a chance against hijackers!!

Here is an article about Israel that is interesting.

Are Israeli teachers armed?

 

[Sunstone]

One attitude change was toward "people who have guns". Gosh, surprise,
people are people!

I grew up in a largely rural area and was taught to shoot at age eight. So were all but one or two of my classmates. The predominant local opinion at the time was that you taught kids to shoot at age eight, and firearm safety, respect, etc. nearly from birth. I knew very few households that did not have at least one shotgun. My home certainly didn't lack for firearms. We had three: two rifles and a pistol -- and there wasn't anyone in the house incompetent to use them except our dog Ted. We would perhaps have had more and better firearms if we weren't dirt poor.

"People who have guns are people"? Just how old were you before you came to that basic realization, Audie? Twenty? Thirty? Forty-five? I was almost born knowing that.

I know your post is intended to be somewhat humorous, and it is, sort of.
I think the sarcasm is misplaced, though. Nobody, after all, is suggesting an extreme position such as you outline, and it distracts from a real discussion
to go off on flights of fantasy, dont you think so?

I have learned in my 60 years on this planet that not everyone has a genuine and/or profound sense of humor -- by which I do NOT mean anything so simple as "some folks don't know how to laugh". I mean a genuine sense of humor in the sense of being at least fairly competent to see both what's true and what's false in a joke.

Now, there is nothing wrong with lacking a sense of humor. A real sense of humor. You might even still laugh at somethings -- things you don't really grasp or understand. So there's nothing wrong with lacking a sense of humor. But there is something wrong with running around lecturing people who do have a sense of humor on how "hard it is to understand their jokes" and on how their jokes "distract from reality" simply because you yourself have a hard time seeing what's true and what's false about their jokes. When you do that, when you run around lecturing folks on how difficult and confusing their jokes are, you are only showing folks that you yourself don't get those jokes.

 

[Shaul]

I dunno, but maybe if teaching scares you so much, it's not the job for you?

Did I say I was scared? No. I choose more troubled schools knowingly because their need is greater. Because I actually care more about the students than my own convenience or comfort. You know, like a dedicated teacher.

 

[Audie]

Give a logical explanation of why arming teachers will increase defense and security....

I grew up in a largely rural area and was taught to shoot at age eight. So were all but one or two of my classmates. The predominant local opinion at the time was that you taught kids to shoot at age eight, and firearm safety, respect, etc. nearly from birth. I knew very few households that did not have at least one shotgun. My home certainly didn't lack for firearms. We had three: two rifles and a pistol -- and there wasn't anyone in the house incompetent to use them except our dog Ted. We would perhaps have had more and better firearms if we weren't dirt poor.

"People who have guns are people"? Just how old were you before you came to that basic realization, Audie? Twenty? Thirty? Forty-five? I was almost born knowing that.



I have learned in my 60 years on this planet that not everyone has a genuine and/or profound sense of humor -- by which I do NOT mean anything so simple as "some folks don't know how to laugh". I mean a genuine sense of humor in the sense of being at least fairly competent to see both what's true and what's false in a joke.

Now, there is nothing wrong with lacking a sense of humor. A real sense of humor. You might even still laugh at somethings -- things you don't really grasp or understand. So there's nothing wrong with lacking a sense of humor. But there is something wrong with running around lecturing people who do have a sense of humor on how "hard it is to understand their jokes" and on how their jokes "distract from reality" simply because you yourself have a hard time seeing what's true and what's false about their jokes. When you do that, when you run around lecturing folks on how difficult and confusing their jokes are, you are only showing folks that you yourself don't get those jokes.

"People who have guns are people"? Just how old were you before you came to that basic realization, Audie? Twenty? Thirty? Forty-five? I was almost born knowing that.

See, I am from about as opposite a place as there is! Hong Kong!

So, yeah, you are not too far off with your 20-30. Lets say 25.
Of course I knew they are people but I foolishly bought into stereotypes-
I am sure you dont need me to tell you about them! When I would go to the
local range, people were so friendly and helpful, not heat-packin' goons
as some would have it.

I suppose that to the extent that it could be said that I have a sense of humour, it would definitely be on the dry side. Oh, and I almost always
understand cartoons in The New Yorker.

In the event, I dont think I was going about lecturing people, as such-
and honestly, I have seen so often proffered as arguments against your
second amendment things about "bazookas" and "tanks" -I am sure you've seen them too-that I suppose I saw that more than the thin humour in it.
But, ok, if I misconstruedd it, then I did, and Audie pulls her head in, turtle style.

BTW and FYI
The little gun I had was a Smith and Wesson .38 calibre "Ladysmith"
with rosewood handles and a brushed stainless finish.

I dont want it now, and I could not have it in NYC anyway.

 

[Shaul]

Hardly, but it might increase the number of deaths, since the evidence seems to show, more guns = more deaths.

Some evidence shows that and some evidence shows the opposite. So let local people decide for themselves. Stop the arm chair quarterbacking.

 

[Shaul]

Go ahead and explain where you draw the line for "reasonable"?

I don’t put myself in the position as the arbitrator of what is reasonable for others. What would be reasonable in Chicago inner city schools is probably not reasonable in rural New Mexico, for example. I’m saying others should do the same and not make blanket lines such as no teachers at all should ever be armed. So my line is that it is reasonable to let individual circumstances decide what is reasonable.

 

[Shaul]

You mean, like the teachers in classrooms of every other developed nation on the planet?

No I mean NOT like teachers in other countries. Just because everyone else does something you think we should too? That’s not really an argument.

 

[SkepticThinker]

No I mean NOT like teachers in other countries. Just because everyone else does something you think we should too? That’s not really an argument.

Perhaps when all those other countries don't have a mass shooting problem like the US does, you might want to at least take a look at how they operate. No? Sounds like a decent argument to me.

 

[oldbadger]

For any members who would be prepared to carry a gun in a classroom teaching employment, would you like to 'have a go' at a simple scenario??
I've already asked a couple of pro-armtheteachers members but they didn't try the simple scenario.

Here it is.

You are teaching a geography class of twenty 15 yrs old students. The classroom is situated on the rear elevation of the main building, and has three waist-high double glazed windows looking out on playing fields to the rear. There is one side-opening window for fire-escape egress to the playing fields.

The classroom entrance door leads into an inner corridor which connects other classrooms, fire escape routes and into the central part of the main building.

You can choose your gun and where/how you keep it.

During this class you hear three loud gun-type noises from deep within the building. As you focus on these sounds your hear three more gun-type noises, and distant shouting/calling out. At this point your students start talking to each other and becoming restless, some stand up.

OK..... take it from there.............. ??

 

[Mock Turtle]

Some evidence shows that and some evidence shows the opposite. So let local people decide for themselves. Stop the arm chair quarterbacking.

Most actually, other than from the gun-loving types.

More Guns Equal More Deaths, Study Finds

Opinion | More Guns = More Killing

More guns, more crime: New research debunks a central thesis of the gun rights movement

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/

Normally I couldn't be bothered since I can't see anything lowering overall deaths in the USA from such weapons apart from just getting rid of the majority of them, but since this is not going to happen anytime soon it is a bit pointless saying anything. Arming teachers however is just so ludicrous as to warrant a comment.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

No I mean NOT like teachers in other countries. Just because everyone else does something you think we should too? That’s not really an argument.

If everyone else does something ... AND IT WORKS... while you keep having problems while doing something different, I'd say that is indeed an argument.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

More relevance;
https://edition.cnn. California teacher accidentally fires gun and injures student - CNN

 

[Milton Platt]

I think arming teachers logically will increase defense and security.

What do you think?

First, teachers can't simply be armed. they would have to take extensive training not only in hand gun use and safety, but also in how to handle a situation involving an active shooter.
Second, it is hard enough to get people to take teaching jobs as it is. I don't think requiring them to now risk their lives will help that situation.
Third, you now have the potential for there to be not only one active shooter, but the teachers themselves become active shooters, increasing the chance of injury to students.
Fourth, it is a good idea for a teacher to leave a classroom full of students to chase after the shooter???

 

[Mock Turtle]

A message from Dunblane to Florida school shooting survivors – video

 

[Woberts]

Even the chance of armed resistance might keep a badguy away.

Huh, I was under the impression that the average school shooter didn't care whether they lived or died. You don't normally see them surrender when the cops arrive, that's for sure.

 

[Audie]

Huh, I was under the impression that the average school shooter didn't care whether they lived or died. You don't normally see them surrender when the cops arrive, that's for sure.

That is so, but, I am sure too that they want to be able to
carry out their "mission", and not get stopped before they do.