Atheism-vague thread.

[roli]

Think about an erotic encounter with someone you love. Think about the sun on a crisp March morning. Think about the taste of a gigantic sandwich with ham, cheese, mustard, and pickles. These are reasons to live: real, tangible reasons that I know exist because I've experienced them. I've got more reason to live now than I did back when I believed that every day was another chance to fall out-of-grace with god and burn forever.

I don't know the full story behind your excperience,but the theology you describe is not the Christian faith Jesus brings to the table.

Maybe it was a traditional,legalistic religion you followed that says you can't dance,go to the movies,wear skirts, eat pork, blah ! blah !
I don't blame you, I'd probably be atheist if that was my experience in a church.

 

[rojse]

I read the following phrase today (will not state where as I do not want to cloud the issue)

Phrase: Atheism is the philosophy of death.

You will note I am a Christian, but trust me im not having a dig at you, I just felt the above phrase was quite neat and to the point and perhaps worth discussing.

Many thanks for any thoughts and feel free to move this if it in the wrong place, didnt know if it should go into philosophy, but hey it will see better trade here I reckon.

Its just ive noticed much Atheist stuff on here is in comparison or aimed at proving this faith or that faith wrong, however I would like to discuss what Atheism is in deeper language than "there is no God"

the phrase is: Atheism is the philosophy of death, try to discuss it but im happy for the thread to be organic, but no silly feuds please.

Cheers, Steve.

I think that Christianity is really the philosophy of Death. Or most religions that posit an afterlife, for that matter.

Christian theology (and other religions) is quite fixated on what occurs after we die on Earth. Do we have a soul, a spirit? Do we go to heaven, or hell? Will we meet our family there? Will we meet others there? What will heaven or hell be like? What do we need to do to get there?

On the other hand, many atheists rejects any life-after-death scenario (not all atheists, obviously, you can't lump beliefs shared by atheists in any matter except a lack of belief in God), and atheists instead concentrate on what we might be able to do while we are alive.

 

[J Bryson]

I've known death-obsessed Atheists, and I've known Atheists who have turned it into a celebration of life. Again, generalized statements do little to further knowledge or constructive debate.

 

[Quagmire]

You should look in the mirror once and awhile, you seem to be describing yourself.
"Vicious lies",ya that's me, come on Auto, look around, where are you?, what forum are you on ? ,what goes on here?

Quite a bit of undeserved tolerance in many cases, along with quite a bit of pretty blatant ingratitude in that regard.


.

Jhn 15:19If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Which is exactly why so many deluded people purposely interpret opposing belief as "hatred" and disagreement as an attack; it allows them to believe that they're one of the people John's talking about here.

It also allows them to write off any personal rejection or dissaproval they recieve as an act of rebellion against God.

It's a fairly iron-clad denial system.

 

[Autodidact]

You should look in the mirror once and awhile, you seem to be describing yourself.
"Vicious lies",ya that's me, come on Auto, look around, where are you?,

And here you go again, accusing me of things without foundation. Please cite a post where I invent vicious slander about you. If you cannot, then you've just done it twice.

what forum are you on ?

Religious Debates.

,what goes on here?

Debate about religion.

I am challenging you and your position and if you have a problem with that you can exit the forum anytime, but Christians are entitled to oppose and refute you as you are free to do the same.......and you do, while being far more insulting to people then you want to acknowledge.

I don't have a problem with being challenged, roli, I have a problem with you telling lies about me. It's mean, dishonest and immoral.

More so to those who obviously oppose your world view.

I don't care what your view is, as long as you don't slander me.<snip excerpt from roli's holy book>

You say you don't deny God,what is that,all you have ever done is deny God in virtually every arguement that is brought to the table.
And you do it well!
But that is your right to do,.......it's what you believe.

And once again you're assuming what you're trying to prove. I realize that it's hard for you to realize things, but try really really hard. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT GOD EXISTS. Think about it.

 

[Autodidact]

I don't know the full story behind your excperience,but the theology you describe is not the Christian faith Jesus brings to the table.

Maybe it was a traditional,legalistic religion you followed that says you can't dance,go to the movies,wear skirts, eat pork, blah ! blah !
I don't blame you, I'd probably be atheist if that was my experience in a church.

So you don't believe in Hell then?

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Think about an erotic encounter with someone you love. Think about the sun on a crisp March morning. Think about the taste of a gigantic sandwich with ham, cheese, mustard, and pickles. These are reasons to live: real, tangible reasons that I know exist because I've experienced them. I've got more reason to live now than I did back when I believed that every day was another chance to fall out-of-grace with god and burn forever.

Thanks for the feedback, Imagist. I appreciate the thought, but I was being smug with my post. I have all of the reason in the world to live - I'm having a blast.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Maybe it was a traditional,legalistic religion you followed that says you can't dance,go to the movies,wear skirts, eat pork, blah ! blah !
I don't blame you, I'd probably be atheist if that was my experience in a church.

The perfect post for you to review, roli. You are so intolerant of the viewpoint of others, that you can't even allow other sects of Christianity their interpretation of the Bible.

You are one conflicted human being, roli. Deeply conflicted.

 

[Imagist]

I don't know the full story behind your excperience,but the theology you describe is not the Christian faith Jesus brings to the table.

Maybe it was a traditional,legalistic religion you followed that says you can't dance,go to the movies,wear skirts, eat pork, blah ! blah !
I don't blame you, I'd probably be atheist if that was my experience in a church.

I am well aware of what Christian faith Jesus brings to the table. I never said that Jesus said any of the things you mention, nor was I taught any of the 'legalistic' things you mention in church. However, I did read the bible about five times. And I seem to remember that Jesus did say the following:

27"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' 28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

Am I to stop myself from appreciating the beauty of the female body simply because thinking is enough to send me to eternal punishment? I'll stick with my freedom to think what I want, thanks.

Regardless of what is taught in church, the Jesus of the bible is legalistic and vengeful, and does threaten us with the punishment of hell and offers us a rather poor reward of adoring him forever. If that's your reason for living, I would choose my erotic encounters, cold mornings, and juicy sandwiches without hesitation.

 

[RemnanteK]

Wow, lots of reading on this tread. I really don't know what to say without feeling like a troll of some kind.
But I will say this, to say that an atheist puts no value to life is obserd.
Really none of us have all the answers relating to death, even those of us that are Christians only know what is written about it, but we have no first hand knowledge.
The way I look at it my life is to live to become an example to others and to live the life I have to the best ability I can.
I'd love to have people ask me why I'm so happy, and what makes me want to live from day to day.
Even an atheist might want this same thing, but they have a different way to go about it. It's just not my way.
In the end I think God wants us to be happy, and if we think we can make ourselves happy that is our choice.
We have a choice to do anything and everything we choose, that is what part of being a human is all about.

 

[Alceste]

Wow, lots of reading on this tread. I really don't know what to say without feeling like a troll of some kind.
But I will say this, to say that an atheist puts no value to life is obserd.
Really none of us have all the answers relating to death, even those of us that are Christians only know what is written about it, but we have no first hand knowledge.
The way I look at it my life is to live to become an example to others and to live the life I have to the best ability I can.
I'd love to have people ask me why I'm so happy, and what makes me want to live from day to day.
Even an atheist might want this same thing, but they have a different way to go about it. It's just not my way.
In the end I think God wants us to be happy, and if we think we can make ourselves happy that is our choice.
We have a choice to do anything and everything we choose, that is what part of being a human is all about.

:clap

 

[Father Heathen]

denying God seems to only allow one to have a clearer conscience when doing so.

I don't deny god. I invite him to materialize in my living room, and to sit down for a friendly chat and a cold beer. He hasn't accepted yet, unfortunately.
No, I'm quite positive if there was a god he wouldn't be as petty, vengeful and infantile as your silly abrahamic religions like to portray 'him' as. Your perception of "god" is merely the projection of your own ego, hatred, fear and insecurity. Things I most certainly have no need to concern myself with.

 

[Hospitaller]

I don't deny god. I invite him to materialize in my living room, and to sit down for a friendly chat and a cold beer. He hasn't accepted yet, unfortunately.
No, I'm quite positive if there was a god he wouldn't be as petty, vengeful and infantile as your silly abrahamic religions like to portray 'him' as. Your perception of "god" is merely the projection of your own ego, hatred, fear and insecurity. Things I most certainly have no need to concern myself with.

well, no offense, but its not like you're accepting his invitation either. see, the problem is that you want a God that fits your own life, even if you do so unconciously, you do. you want a God that fits in with your time schedule, your wants, and your preocupations. hate to burst your line of "security" here, but God certainly isn't going to change for you. you got the whole thing backwards, buddy. It's you who must change for God.

 

[Father Heathen]

well, no offense, but its not like you're accepting his invitation either. see, the problem is that you want a God that fits your own life, even if you do so unconciously, you do. you want a God that fits in with your time schedule, your wants, and your preocupations. hate to burst your line of "security" here, but God certainly isn't going to change for you. you got the whole thing backwards, buddy. It's you who must change for God.

My point was that neither God nor I have any need or use for the self-appointed bureaucracy of middlemen and interpreters that is your various religions, holy books, "prophets", etc.
I'm sure god is powerful enough to directly communicate with me and convey whatever message he wants, but seeing as how it's quite obvious that god (if such a thing even exists) neither interacts nor intervenes when regarding humanity, then it's obviously nothing worth paying any mind about. And I most certainly have no reason to believe or trust any of the countless erroneous, irrational, contradictory and unsubstantiated religions and holy books out there.

 

[Hospitaller]

My point was that neither God nor I have any need or use for the self-appointed bureaucracy of middlemen and interpreters that is your various religions, holy books, "prophets", etc.
I'm sure god is powerful enough to directly communicate with me and convey whatever message he wants, but seeing as how it's quite obvious that god (if such a thing even exists) neither interacts nor intervenes when regarding humanity, then it's obviously nothing worth paying any mind about. And I most certainly have no reason to believe or trust any of the countless erroneous, irrational, contradictory and unsubstantiated religions and holy books out there.

my theory is that God was closer to those who wrote the Bible and to the prophets than we are. why should God give anyone anything when all we behave like pampered infants? why do we expect to recieve when we dont give?

 

[Father Heathen]

my theory is that God was closer to those who wrote the Bible and to the prophets than we are.

The Bible is a very unimpressive and underwhelming work. Besides chronicling the savagery of primitive goat herders, it portrays god as a petty, infantile, and brutish ogre. Definitely not something worthy of my worship. Of course we know any real god would be nothing like the sort.

why should God give anyone anything when all we behave like pampered infants? why do we expect to recieve when we dont give?

Who, exactly, is behaving like a "pampered infant", and how? And who is not giving, and what, exactly, should they be giving?

 

[J Bryson]

There's something refreshingly Heinleinesque about your approach, Father Heathen. And I mean that as a compliment.

 

[Father Heathen]

There's something refreshingly Heinleinesque about your approach, Father Heathen. And I mean that as a compliment.

Why, thank you.

 

[Hospitaller]

The Bible is a very unimpressive and underwhelming work. Besides chronicling the savagery of primitive goat herders, it portrays god as a petty, infantile, and brutish ogre. Definitely not something worthy of my worship. Of course we know any real god would be nothing like the sort.



Who, exactly, is behaving like a "pampered infant", and how? And who is not giving, and what, exactly, should they be giving?

im not going to try and convince you about the Bible, but what im trying to say is we're expecting to recieve things from God, wether they be blessings, material needs, revelations etc., without wanting to give anything back, including time, dedication, prayers, acceptance etc.

i do actually think that the ethic of reciprocity can be counted on. I dont expect my boss to reward me without doing a good job. same with God.

 

[rojse]

There's something refreshingly Heinleinesque about your approach, Father Heathen. And I mean that as a compliment.

Unfortunately, I haven't read Heinlen yet (would love to read "Starship Troopers" or "The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress" to see what he is like). What is it about Father Heathen's posts that remind you of Heinlen?