Atheism

[PureX]

I don't want to get anyone's hopes up, but these past couple of years, I've slightly changed and improved on some of my ideas, I feel. And tried to become more a critical thinker. These past couple of days, I've been playing a lot of this video game which I find a little relaxing, and while I've played, I've been thinking hard about life. And it made me realize that I want to try life without magic thinking - no gods, no magic, no spirit world, and probably no aliens since I feel there either isn't evidence for them, or the evidence doesn't hold up.

I realize I have embraced religious thinking a lot these past two or three weeks, so it may come as a surprise that today, I was trying to try thinking without any of the 'magical thinking' (and so far, it has been going well for me), but I think my greater push towards religion and magical thinking was just that - it was a push-back to a more logical form of thinking getting under my skin, and it was my response to being afraid of something a bit "new". But now, I've gotten over that fear.

So I realize if I do eventually identify with atheism, if this way of thinking does work out for me..... that I feel it's not going to be easy, because it involves scrutinizing evidence, fact-finding, and really putting in the work and effort (in my opinion), so to speak. But I feel I'm getting closer and closer to being ready for such a thing, should I pursue it.

Giving up magical thinking does not require you to become an atheist. It's not, 'religious superstition or nothing'.

It's actually very easy to find the divine spirit in everyday life once you stop presuming the spirit to be some mighty invisible personage and realize that it's more like a circumstantial meme. Like when you go to a wedding and become infected by the spirit of joy and mirth that everyone there is feeling. Or you go to a funeral and you feel the sadness of the loss of someone people cared about. THAT kind of spirit. Not magical being ... normal experiences that we all can feel and share with each other. And that some of those are good and positive and healing, while others are bad and damaging to us. And to be avoided.

This is how to "see God" and "feel God" in the real world, without all the magic and superstition and religious mumbo-jumbo. Just look for the love, and forgiveness, and kindness and generosity in yourself and in others, and embrace it. Become it. And you will know "God".

Atheism is a waste of time and energy. It's negation for negation's sake. And most atheists aren't even atheists. They just hate religion, which is also a waste of time and energy. My advice would be to forget all that nonsense. And just look for the REAL spirit of good at work in the world, and in you. And stick with that as much as you can. If God exists, and effects this world, that's how.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Perhaps a good thing - erm, Icarus.

“I believe Icarus was not failing as he fell,
But just coming to the end of his triumph.”

From ‘Failing and Flying’, a poem by Jack Gilbert.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Atheism is a waste of time and energy. It's negation for negation's sake. And most atheists aren't even atheists. They just hate religion, which is also a waste of time and energy.

I'm sure most atheists would dispute the energy requirements (if they are as lazy as myself), and have you actually looked at what is required of some religious beliefs? Also, in my view, it is not hatred of religions that is the main issue - it is more distrust and woe at the effects of so many religious beliefs. Should the atheists stand aside and let so many religious beliefs harm others without commenting or opposing such? Where would you like to start - as to nastiness destroying the lives of those under religious control or where they just cause such divisions and frictions?

 

[PureX]

I'm sure most atheists would dispute the energy requirements (if they are as lazy as myself), and have you actually looked at what is required of some religious beliefs? Also, in my view, it is not hatred of religions that is the main issue - it is more distrust and woe at the effects of so many religious beliefs. Should the atheists stand aside and let so many religious beliefs harm others without commenting or opposing such? Where would you like to start - as to nastiness destroying the lives of those under religious control or where they just cause such divisions and frictions?

You're proving my point about the pointless waste of time that atheism is.

The problems you blame on religion exists in every human endeavor and ideology because they are human problems, not religious one. Or political ones. Or commercial ones. Or societal ones. So blaming them on religion and endlessly bemoaning religion for them is just a giant waste of time and energy. As it has virtually no effect at all.

In fact, I'd contend that religion itself does far more good in terms of mitigating such human stupidity and selfishness than any atheist argument or condemnation ever has. The atheist can't see this, of course, because he can't acknowledge ANY positive aspects or effects of religion. But they are there, and are aplenty.

And this all avoids the irrationality and entrenched dishonesty of atheism itself. Which is the mirror of the same irrationality and dishonesty it endlessly derides in religion.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I'm sure most atheists would dispute the energy requirements (if they are as lazy as myself), and have you actually looked at what is required of some religious beliefs? Also, in my view, it is not hatred of religions that is the main issue - it is more distrust and woe at the effects of so many religious beliefs. Should the atheists stand aside and let so many religious beliefs harm others without commenting or opposing such? Where would you like to start - as to nastiness destroying the lives of those under religious control or where they just cause such divisions and frictions?

You're proving my point about the pointless waste of time that atheism is.

The problems you blame on religion exists in every human endeavor and ideology because they are human problems, not religious one. Or political ones. Or commercial ones. Or societal ones. So blaming them on religion and endlessly bemoaning religion for them is just a giant waste of time and energy. As it has virtually no effect at all.

In fact, I'd contend that religion itself does far more good in terms of mitigating such human stupidity and selfishness than any atheist argument or condemnation ever has. The atheist can't see this, of course, because he can't acknowledge ANY positive aspects or effects of religion. But they are there, and are aplenty.

And this all avoids the irrationality and entrenched dishonesty of atheism itself. Which is the mirror of the same irrationality and dishonesty it endlessly derides in religion.

Let's make this the last round of argumentative posts on this subject. If you want to debate, take it to your own thread, and not in Journals.

I'm not saying it has bothered me yet, I'm just saying that things can quickly turn into debate.

 

[Revoltingest]

Atheism is a waste of time and energy.

Not nearly as much as continually arguing against it.

Atheism is effortless.
Just magical belief failing to take root.

 

[Mock Turtle]

You're proving my point about the pointless waste of time that atheism is.

The problems you blame on religion exists in every human endeavor and ideology because they are human problems, not religious one. Or political ones. Or commercial ones. Or societal ones. So blaming them on religion and endlessly bemoaning religion for them is just a giant waste of time and energy. As it has virtually no effect at all.

In fact, I'd contend that religion itself does far more good in terms of mitigating such human stupidity and selfishness than any atheist argument or condemnation ever has. The atheist can't see this, of course, because he can't acknowledge ANY positive aspects or effects of religion. But they are there, and are aplenty.

And this all avoids the irrationality and entrenched dishonesty of atheism itself. Which is the mirror of the same irrationality and dishonesty it endlessly derides in religion.

Well we will have to disagree as to benefits and deficits, and I will respect the owner of this thread - so byeee.

And still exaggerating - as per usual.

 

[icehorse]

So I realize if I do eventually identify with atheism, if this way of thinking does work out for me..... that I feel it's not going to be easy, because it involves scrutinizing evidence, fact-finding, and really putting in the work and effort (in my opinion), so to speak. But I feel I'm getting closer and closer to being ready for such a thing, should I pursue it.

Religion has attempted to usurp many wonderful things in life that are NOT actually religious in nature: love, awe, spirituality, empathy, compassion, wonder, curiosity, and so on. Being an atheist can be about looking for evidence, but that's just one facet of many.

 

[wandering peacefully]

I don't want to get anyone's hopes up, but these past couple of years, I've slightly changed and improved on some of my ideas, I feel. And tried to become more a critical thinker. These past couple of days, I've been playing a lot of this video game which I find a little relaxing, and while I've played, I've been thinking hard about life. And it made me realize that I want to try life without magic thinking - no gods, no magic, no spirit world, and probably no aliens since I feel there either isn't evidence for them, or the evidence doesn't hold up.

I realize I have embraced religious thinking a lot these past two or three weeks, so it may come as a surprise that today, I was trying to try thinking without any of the 'magical thinking' (and so far, it has been going well for me), but I think my greater push towards religion and magical thinking was just that - it was a push-back to a more logical form of thinking getting under my skin, and it was my response to being afraid of something a bit "new". But now, I've gotten over that fear.

So I realize if I do eventually identify with atheism, if this way of thinking does work out for me..... that I feel it's not going to be easy, because it involves scrutinizing evidence, fact-finding, and really putting in the work and effort (in my opinion), so to speak. But I feel I'm getting closer and closer to being ready for such a thing, should I pursue it.

Atheism isn't really a choice. There just comes a time when you cannot believe certain things anymore. It doesn't mean losing love and awe of mystery. It just means not making up stories about what that mystery is and just accepting and believing in what is evident. It can't be forced. It just happens. There is no turning back from non belief in the unevidenced.

 

[Trailblazer]

Not all Christians believe that about the Bible anyway. I've not come across much of that and I'm a Theology student. My Catholic boyfriend owns an Ehrman book.

Did you meet your Catholic boyfriend in Theology school?
My new boyfriend was raised Catholic, went to Catholic school from grade school through high school.
He is not a practicing Catholic anymore, and I am only now learning more about his God beliefs, but thus far they are similar to mine. He is a strong believer and God is always in the forefront of his mind. This is a good sign.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Did you meet your Catholic boyfriend in Theology school?
My new boyfriend was raised Catholic, went to Catholic school from grade school through high school.
He is not a practicing Catholic anymore, and I am only now learning more about his God beliefs, but thus far they are similar to mine. He is a strong believer and God is always in the forefront of his mind. This is a good sign.

Congrats on the boyfriend.

I've thought more about what I want to do for dating, and I decided I would look for someone seriously into music, and hang out on music sites.

 

[Trailblazer]

Not nearly as much as continually arguing against it.

Atheism is effortless.
Just magical belief failing to take root.

Theism is effortless.
Just magical belief taking root.

 

[Trailblazer]

Congrats on the boyfriend.

I've thought more about what I want to do for dating, and I decided I would look for someone seriously into music, and hang out on music sites.

Thanks. He is not a full-fledged boyfriend yet, he is a telephone boyfriend I met on a dating site.
That works for me for now because I don't like dating. Hopefully, he will eventually come to where I live and I will meet him in person. Meanwhile it is the telephone and sending him e-mails he receives at the library.

Since I am so seriously into Baha'i, tonight I asked him if he would read some Baha'i books if I sent them to him and he said sure, he would be happy to, so I am going to order some books on Amazon and send the to him in the mail. I reasoned it is better to find out if he is amenable to my beliefs before I get any more involved.

Good luck in your search. Lots of people are into music, more than are into cats. I am hard pressed to find a boyfriend who wants a woman with eight cats.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

He is not a full-fledged boyfriend yet, he is a telephone boyfriend I met on a dating site.
That works for me for now because I don't like dating. Hopefully, eventually he will come to where I live and I will meet him in person. Meanwhile it is the telephone and sending him e-mails he receives at the library.

Since I am so seriously into Baha'i, tonight I asked him if he would read some Baha'i books if I sent them to him and he said sure, he would be happy to, so I am going to order some books on Amazon and send the to him in the mail. I reasoned it is better to find out if he is amenable to my beliefs before I get any more involved.

Good luck in your search. Lots of people are into music, more than are into cats. I am hard pressed to find a boyfriend who wants a woman with eight cats.

Thank you.

If you have read the Baha'i books yourself, you should ask him some questions on them after he tells you he read them. Just to kind of make sure he's reading them & have something to talk about.

 

[Trailblazer]

If you have read the Baha'i books yourself, you should ask him some questions on them after he tells you he read them. Just to kind of make sure he's reading them & have something to talk about.

Yes, I have read them all, and there are a couple I am sending that aren't Baha'i books, they are about the afterlife.
I am actually looking forward to these discussions after he has read some of the books.

 

[PureX]

Atheism isn't really a choice. There just comes a time when you cannot believe certain things anymore. It doesn't mean losing love and awe of mystery. It just means not making up stories about what that mystery is and just accepting and believing in what is evident. It can't be forced. It just happens. There is no turning back from non belief in the unevidenced.

Rejecting religious mythology and magical thinking doesn't make one an atheist. Because religion is not theism. They are not the same things. Being a-religious does not mean you're an atheist.

Also, a lack of deliberate and thoughtful consideration just makes people ignorant, not "natural". And anyone can be guilty of it: theists, atheist, and undecideds, alike. That isn't really something one should consider a point of validation. We all have a choice when we are willing to consider the options, fully, and then determine by whatever means we think is appropriate which option we choose to align ourselves with. It's called taking responsibility for our own minds.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Being a-religious does not mean you're an atheist.

What would areligious and theist look like? Someone who is New Age?

 

[PureX]

What would areligious and theist look like? Someone who is New Age?

It would look a lot like me.

Someone that understands what religion and mythology are for, and about, and that has little use, personally, for either one. Yet someone that can appreciate and respect the great mystery of existence enough to know that it matters, and to accommodate it as a significant part of my life. I don't have to define "God" as anything more than the great mystery source, sustenance, and purpose of all that is. And as such, as something that cannot be rejected and should not be ignored. (As some fool atheist would do.)

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

So I think that some point, in general, I should clarify something.

Some of the posts that were addressed to me in this thread, just sounded like they were directed at me with the assumption I was Abrahamic.

But I rejected the Abrahamic God either way, and long before making this thread about atheism. I was a polytheist who was into Wicca, and polytheists tend to have their own beliefs.

This is why I've talked multiple times about magical thinking. Basically my beliefs were getting to be close enough to atheism, that I started to see the only difference between choosing or succumbing to atheism, and my current beliefs, was the incorporation of magical thinking.

So I was trying to decide to give up magical thinking. And I considered part of that, giving up the gods. In which case, it'd be hard to any more call me polytheist.

 

[Revoltingest]

Theism is effortless.

Not from what I observe.
Believers have scripture to study, & figure
out what ambiguous poetic prose means.
And they also regularly change religions.
That's far far more work than not believing.