Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Same here.
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Atheists: does God exist?
- Thread starter 9-10ths_Penguin
- Start date
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
It might not be sufficient for you to believe in God but “Messengers of God” are the only evidence that God has ever provided.
Some believers claim that the creation is evidence for God but it is not very good evidence, since there is no way one can tie creation back to God.
Besides that, there are other explanations for how creation came into being.
No, but no Messenger of God would ever say that so it is a moot point.
Messenger if god is no evidence at all no matter how many times you say it. And it’s certainly not reasonable.
Messengers of god told me my cat is the reborn Jesus. It’s true. I know it is. God told my heart. It is knowledge imparted to me through divine means.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Messengers of God are the evidence for God no matter how many times you say they are not. And it’s certainly reasonable.
I have given the atheists on this forum plenty of opportunities to come up with 'a better way' for God to communicate to humans.
Just look at all the threads I have started, yet nobody has EVER come up with a better way.
84% of people in the word believe in God because of Messengers so the implication is that atheists just don't get it.
84 percent of the world population has faith; a third are Christian - Washington Times
"Worldwide, more than eight-in-ten people identify with a religious group," says a new comprehensive demographic study of more than 230 countries and territories conducted by the Pew Research Center's Forum on Religion & Public Life.
Because most faiths have a religious Founder or what I call a Messenger that means most people believe in God because of a Messenger. We know that Christians and Muslims believe in a Messenger and they comprise 55% of the world population. It does not matter if you call them a Messenger; they are holy men who founded the religions, so they are intermediaries between God and man. Sure, there are a few believers who believe in God but not a Messenger but that is not the norm. The point is that with no Messengers or holy men very few people would believe in God.
No true Messenger of God told you that your cat is the reborn Jesus.
Nonsense. Maybe we need to take a step back and check your definition of “evidence.” How do you define that word?Messengers of God are the evidence for God no matter how many times you say they are not. And it’s certainly reasonable.
I have given the atheists on this forum plenty of opportunities to come up with 'a better way' for God to communicate to humans.
Just look at all the threads I have started, yet nobody has EVER come up with a better way.
84% of people in the word believe in God because of Messengers so the implication is that atheists just don't get it.
84 percent of the world population has faith; a third are Christian - Washington Times
"Worldwide, more than eight-in-ten people identify with a religious group," says a new comprehensive demographic study of more than 230 countries and territories conducted by the Pew Research Center's Forum on Religion & Public Life.www.washingtontimes.com
Because most faiths have a religious Founder or what I call a Messenger that means most people believe in God because of a Messenger. We know that Christians and Muslims believe in a Messenger and they comprise 55% of the world population. It does not matter if you call them a Messenger; they are holy men who founded the religions, so they are intermediaries between God and man. Sure, there are a few believers who believe in God but not a Messenger but that is not the norm. The point is that with no Messengers or holy men very few people would believe in God.
No true Messenger of God told you that your cat is the reborn Jesus.
And a messenger of god did tell me my cat is Jesus. That’s my evidence. And my wife and kids just received the same message. This movement is growing because it’s true.
YellowFeather
Member
God knows who everyone is and the life they live. God only is part of them that live their life to his standards. That is having Faith, Believing in him and obeying him. God does not have anything to do with the atheist the unbeliever of him. Because you cannot see him with your eyes you cannot believe in an invisible God that takes Faith to believe. Hebrews 3:11 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you and evil heart of UNBELIEF, in departing from the living God.
This is stated as if a fact, how is this claim true? Begin by demonstrating that your idea of God actually exists outside of your imagination. Use facts.
Really? What standards? And how is this factual, and not just untrue religious dogma?
How does your God enforce the rules and standards so that obedience is meaningful?
Isn't that odd? It's almost as if God doesn't exist outside of the minds of believers. That would make mere mortals the God, and the idea of God just a manifestation. In other words, illusion.
Rational minds require evidence to make valid conclusions. Faith is self-serving and unreliable. It offers no advantage for minds seeking truth. Look at how believers seldom agree on what they claim is Truth. Quite ironic that is.
The Bible and interpretations of texts have no authority.
YellowFeather
Member
When you live to God's standards and obey God, Your life will change and you will feel safe and the world will have nothing to do with you. While everyone that is out there killing each other and causing wars you will live a happy safe life. Your life will go slower because you are not in a hurry to have what you do not need. It is all up to the individual that truly wants to be saved from a world of hate. One has to seek God in full Faithfulness to him.
YellowFeather
Member
God does not give to us what we do not work for. We have to work and show God that we are true to him. God gives us all the directions to follow in the Bible and if one follows God's directions God will know him. The number one is having Faith and obeying the commandments. The commandments start in Exodus and are repeated over and over just as Faith is. God created man to take care of the world. The whole duty of man is to obey the commandments. Ecclesiastes 12:13
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Says who? You?
Even Jesus is said to have chummed around with prostitutes and tax collectors.
YellowFeather
Member
Jehovah God and Jesus are nice to everyone, even the Evil ones and the Unbelievers hoping they will change and follow God. In the end those who do not believe and do not follow in the word of God will not be saved. God is waiting for anyone that seeks him to become one with him and his son Jesus.
The way the question is stated, there only needs to be two choices from which to select - yes or no.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
If they answer yes, then they wouldn't be atheists, would they?
Frank Buffalo
Member
I agree with those who want a definition of god in order to address this question of whether one exists. There are religions that see gods in trees and other natural things (animism). There are religions that see god as a fixed entity that started the universe and then sat back to see how the plan unfolded (deists). There are religions that see god as an intimately relatable being who can be communicated with, back-and-forth, on an everyday basis (evangelical christians). There are religions that have multiple gods (paganism, Hinduism, and some forms of Buddhism). To assume everyone has a common understanding of what "god" is, is a mistake.
Meanwhile, for any of the above definitions, I say NO. There are desires to believe in a god, but mutually believable evidence for any form of one is lacking.
Meanwhile, for any of the above definitions, I say NO. There are desires to believe in a god, but mutually believable evidence for any form of one is lacking.
I always assumed it to be defined by the person doing the talking, or posting in this case. Every post, a different God.
Not my job to define God for you.
If I wanted God to exist, it'd be easy to create a definition I am comfortable with.
However, I don't really care if a God exists. It is not a question to ask of an atheist.
ppp
Well-Known Member
In one of his novels, Steven Brust gave the criteria as a being that 1) cannot be controlled (in context, via arcane arts), and 2) can occupy more than one [non-contiguous] place at one time. He was obviously having fun, but it remains the most robust taxonomic criteria that I have yet to see.
The only taxonomic criterion is what the believer considers to be a god.
What's the difference between divine messenger Gabriel and divine messenger Mercury/Hermes? Very little, IMO. Still, we consider people who believe in Gabriel as well as the Christian God to be monotheists, all because they don't consider Gabriel to be a god.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I appreciate the frustration of atheists who want a clear definition of God. The problem is, there can't be one. The idea of God comes from the sense of awe and mystery we have when we look out over the universe. We label the source of that "God." But define? The whole point is that he/she/it is something that defies our understanding, that cannot be held within words. Perhaps the Tao Te Ching captures what cannot be captured: "Something there is..."
Augustus
…
The same is true for all kinds of abstract categories that we use without much trouble though.
Where is the line that demarcates democracy from "not democracy" or science from "not science"? or religion from "not religion"? I personally could not clearly and consistently demarcate any of these from "not these", yet I can still use the terms in a meaningful way despite their fuzzy boundaries.
The line between gods and "not gods" is by no means special or uniquely challenging among commonly used words.
Ultimately they all, to some extent, only exist in the eye of the beholder, and as atheism (at least among anyone aware of the word god)
relates to a personal belief/stance taken it makes no difference if people radically disagree on what they think a god is. It's just a subjective personal opinion.