A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
That is without doubt the worst argument that I've ever heard.
Arrogance exists, therefore God exists.
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Atheists: If there's no God, then where did the world come from?
- Thread starter Debater Slayer
- Start date
That is without doubt the worst argument that I've ever heard.
Arrogance exists, therefore God exists.
So... only infinite things can make "reality"
And "infinite" implies God?
Maybe you could step us through your thought process here, because it looks to me like you're making some very large logical leaps.
The argument against is that the same 'logic' ("reality exists, therefore God created it") could just as easily be used to support "reality exists, therefore [something else] created it."
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angellous_evangellous
Guest
(there is no process)
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
Or "silly putty exists, therefore moles created it."
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
:takeabow:
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
St Giordano Bruno
Well-Known Member
I believe the universe is of such an immense scale things such as our earth can emerge out of natural happenstance. Especially if one take cosmic inflation into account where comparing the observable universe or that I mean the universe as we observe it extending out to a radius of 26 billion light years would be much smaller in comparison the rest of the universe than a proton is to the observable universe. In such a stupendously immense universe even the most seemingly improbable things such as intelligent life would become inevitable without necessity for an intelligent God.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
I agree that god is not required but that is not proof that God does not exist, particularly outside of any method of measure.
Sum1sGruj
Active Member
Something outside the plane of reality did it. This same thing must be infinite, having no beginning or end. It must also have will, as cause and effect is a domino effect. Without an initial will, the dominoes do not tumble.
Sounds a whole lot like God to me
Is God real?Something outside the plane of reality did it. This same thing must be infinite, having no beginning or end. It must also have will, as cause and effect is a domino effect. Without an initial will, the dominoes do not tumble.
Sounds a whole lot like God to me
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
Something outside the plane of reality did it. This same thing must be infinite, having no beginning or end. It must also have will, as cause and effect is a domino effect. Without an initial will, the dominoes do not tumble.
Sounds a whole lot like God to me
How does it follow that something outside the plane of reality is infinite?
It is just as possible that there are many things outside the plane of reality that are finite.
And furthermore, the initial will that made the dominos tumble may not have been intentional. That is, our reality could have been the result of an explosion from a failed science experiment.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
Sum1sGruj
Active Member
It certainly appears so to me. I feel the only matter of faith is what one interprets this divinity to be. Maybe there is more than one. Maybe he is simply a generic, gnostic maker and nothing more.
I personally believe it to be the God of Abraham.
If you are talking about parallel universes, strings, branes, and so on,. They are just as part of reality as this universe.
Reality didn't just come from 'nothing'. If there is anything impossible, that is it.
Whatever created the universe has to be infinite because it created it own being by simply being. Such an entity would not be able to die unless he willed it to be so.
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The only thing I can infer from the claim that something is "beyond the plane of reality" is that the thing is not real.
For the term "plane of reality" to be accurate, it must contain all real things. If a "plane of reality" exists and God is beyond it, then God is not real. Alternately, if God is real and a "plane of reality" exists, then God is within it.
If God is real, then how can God be beyond the "plane of reality"? Isn't the "plane of reality" the domain that contains all real things?
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angellous_evangellous
Guest
I'm hung up on how anything from "the plane of reality" can be used to infer the nature of anything "outside of the plane of reality."
Sum1sGruj
Active Member
Reality cannot come from 'nothing'. And so for it to be created, it has to be from something originally not of the reality.
It's like in M-theory, if two branes or cross-sections of strings collide, a universe may form. But the universe was created from the outside, not the inside.
So this applies to all reality as well. Something outside it's parameter made it. This cannot be anything less than a truly divine being.
tumbleweed41
Resident Liberal Hippie
Conflating metaphysics with empirical science and mixing in a bit of wishful thinking.Something outside the plane of reality did it. This same thing must be infinite, having no beginning or end. It must also have will, as cause and effect is a domino effect. Without an initial will, the dominoes do not tumble.
Sounds a whole lot like God to me