Atheists: If there's no God, then where did the world come from?

[angellous_evangellous]

Reality cannot come from 'nothing'. And so for it to be created, it has to be from something originally not of the reality.
It's like in M-theory, if two branes or cross-sections of strings collide, a universe may form. But the universe was created from the outside, not the inside.
So this applies to all reality as well. Something outside it's parameter made it. This cannot be anything less than a truly divine being.

I don't think that anyone is arguing that.

You're trying to speculate on stuff outside of reality using a profound misunderstanding of it as a premise.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Conflating metaphysics with empirical science and mixing in a bit of wishful thinking.

*understatement*

 

[PolyHedral]

Reality cannot come from 'nothing'.

Oh, now you're not talking about the universe anymore. You're talking about all of reality, and so have absolutely no evidence whatsoever to back up the claim you just made.

Also, I'm fairly sure that the ToE du jour says that there wasn't ever any nothing.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Oh, now you're not talking about the universe anymore. You're talking about all of reality, and so have absolutely no evidence whatsoever to back up the claim you just made.

Also, I'm fairly sure that the ToE du jour says that there wasn't ever any nothing.

So?


.......

 

[Sum1sGruj]

I don't think that anyone is arguing that.

You're trying to speculate on stuff outside of reality using a profound misunderstanding of it as a premise.

*understatement*

Oh, now you're not talking about the universe anymore. You're talking about all of reality, and so have absolutely no evidence whatsoever to back up the claim you just made.

Also, I'm fairly sure that the ToE du jour says that there wasn't ever any nothing.

My evidence is in what I spoke. Something didn't come from 'nothing'.
Don't make a fool of yourselves

 

[angellous_evangellous]

My evidence is in what I spoke. Something didn't come from 'nothing'.
Don't make a fool of yourselves

You're delusional.

If words without rationale are evidence, then silly putty created the universe. I'm right and that's indisputable.

If I could cash in on that arrogance, I'd be a millionare.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Reality cannot come from 'nothing'. And so for it to be created, it has to be from something originally not of the reality.
It's like in M-theory, if two branes or cross-sections of strings collide, a universe may form. But the universe was created from the outside, not the inside.
So this applies to all reality as well. Something outside it's parameter made it. This cannot be anything less than a truly divine being.

A graduate of the Kirk Cameron school of apologetics, I see.

[youtube]2z-OLG0KyR4[/youtube]
YouTube - Kirk Cameron And Bananas

 

[tumbleweed41]

My evidence is in what I spoke. Something didn't come from 'nothing'.

Describe "nothing" in physics.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

(or perhaps how "nothing" is evidence for "something")

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I'm so arrogant my head is about to explode. Therefore god exists.

 

[Sum1sGruj]

You're delusional.

If words without rationale are evidence, then silly putty created the universe. I'm right and that's indisputable.

If I could cash in on that arrogance, I'd be a millionare.

What I explained was much more significant than silly putty. Denial complex.

The only thing delusional is trying to put a scientific value on something science cannot be explained scientifically.
So like I said, do some critical thinking before you make a fool of yourselves and insult me.

 

[tumbleweed41]

My evidence is in what I spoke. Something didn't come from 'nothing'.

Describe "nothing" in physics.

Well?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

What I explained was much more significant than silly putty. Denial complex.

The only thing delusional is trying to put a scientific value on something science cannot be explained.
So like I said, do some critical thinking before you make a fool of yourselves and insult me.

Denial complex?

You're writing complete nonsense and you're accusing me of denial?

No, you wrote nothing more significant than silly putty, and the substance of what you wrote does not automatically validate itself. It is not an insult to say that is arrogance because it is. This kind of hubris is the mortal enemy of critical thinking because it is a claim to infalliability -- nothing that you write can be falsified, so it is sort of a divine truth.

Unfortunately for everyone's sake, this has made you a kind of prophet of your own misunderstandings and nonsensical dreams.

 

[waitasec]

The only thing delusional is trying to put a scientific value on something science cannot be explained scientifically.

you still haven't explained how you know this.

if you know it all, why then are you objecting to the exploration of science catching up to your knowledge? :sarcastic

 

[Sum1sGruj]

Denial complex?

You're writing complete nonsense and you're accusing me of denial?

No, you wrote nothing more significant than silly putty, and the substance of what you wrote does not automatically validate itself. It is not an insult to say that is arrogance because it is. This kind of hubris is the mortal enemy of critical thinking because it is a claim to infalliability -- nothing that you write can be falsified, so it is sort of a divine truth.

Unfortunately for everyone's sake, this has made you a kind of prophet of your own misunderstandings and nonsensical dreams.

Denial of what? That reality happened on it's own accord?
It clear what the nonsense is.

You all are just desperate to overthrow my idea because you can't come up with jack on the contrary.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Denial of what? That the universe happened on it's own accord?
It clear what the nonsense is.

You all are just desperate to overthrow my idea because you can't come up with jack on the contrary.

I don't know. You said I was in denial. I said you're delusional - big difference.

When you make a claim, especially when you pretend to make a rational one, the burden of proof is on you to defend it. No one has to come up with an alternative theory, but if they did, they would have to defend it.

 

[Sum1sGruj]

I don't know. You said I was in denial. I said you're delusional - big difference.

When you make a claim, especially when you pretend to make a rational one, the burden of proof is on you to defend it. No one has to come up with an alternative theory, but if they did, they would have to defend it.

I came up with a theory It is much, much more than any of you have contributed to where reality came from period.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I came up with a theory It is much, much more than any of you have contributed to where reality came from period.

That explains a whole lot.

Any run of the mill moron can write a bunch of nonsense and call it a theory, insist that their knowledge is perfect, and demand accolades.

It's like masturbating in public. Anyone can do it, but for most of us it would take heroic arrogance to assume that everyone who watches will enjoy the show.

 

[Sum1sGruj]

That explains a whole lot.

Any run of the mill moron can write a bunch of nonsense and call it a theory, insist that their knowledge is perfect, and demand accolades.

It's like masturbating in public. Anyone can do it, but for most of us it would take heroic arrogance to assume that everyone who watches will enjoy the show.

Then how do you presume to explain something that cannot have a scientific value?
Exactly. That is why not even a hint of rationale bleeds through on the contrary.

There's nothing logical about a divine being, and yet it is the only logic that explains where reality came from.

 

[Debater Slayer]

This makes no sense. Nothing, by definition means there is nothing to come from.

Now you get it. So the universe can't have come from nothing; there must have been a power that caused it (in this case, God).

from wikipedia:
The fundamental assertion of those who oppose embryonic stem cell research is the belief that human life is inviolable, combined with the fact that human life begins when a sperm cell fertilizes an egg cell to form a single cell, though an embryo is only human once it has developed cells that perform human functions. But I don't want this to turn into a abortion debate. so let us leave this particular point at that.

So they kill the embryo before it even has a chance to become a human being. Good job.

I never stated that was my assumption. I said I don't know, but the Dr.Krauss's explanation seems to make sense.
You said you KNOW god created the universe. Yours is an assumption, mine isn't.

Well, talking objectively, I said that because I believe in God, just like you believe in everything scientists say.

But why do you limit yourself only up to the Big Bang? Why not ask the same question about god? How do you know god is unknowable if you don't even try?
that question, which you artfully dodged at least twice.

Do you know of a possible way to know God? And there might be and we just don't know it yet, who knows.

Life is possible only on a very tiny percentage of the universe, and a small percentage on earth. Have you ever been to a third world country? I have. Its not paradise. Maybe it is paradise where you live.
But you have dodged my question once again. it is possible you cannot comprehend what I am saying.

I didn't mean this world when I used the word paradise; I meant the better position in the afterlife. And yes I have been to third world countries, a lot.

What about god is so special that it is worth worshiping? Creating the universe is sadly not a quality worth worshiping.

That is purely subjective. You may think he is not worth worshiping, but that's just you. A lot of people (most of the world, in fact) have a lot of reasons to worship him (see my above post for just one of many reasons).

How do you know there is an afterlife? When did this debate turn from where the world came from to afterlife? You continue to keep moving the goalposts.

Okay, may be I was wrong talking about that right now since it's not our main subject. We'll get to that later.

Awfully convenient, isn't it? And your explanation for worshiping god was "we were created to worship god". That is a silly reason. which is why I asked why does a perfect god need us to stroke his ego.

By human standards, it is ego to ask someone to worship you as a human. But why do you apply the same rule on God? He is of a different nature and therefore has completely different rules than ours.

Yes, I do. It comes spontaneously because it is so ingrained in our vocabulary. Its like saying "bless you" when someone sneezes. At least I don't say it, but I have heard a lot of people say it. And when I ask them why they say it, they don't have an answer.
If something good happens, why should I thank god? I don't even believe that a god exists. That is why I try to catch myself and say thank goodness or something

Again, we'll get back to that later since that's not the main subject at hand. If you believe in a God you'll be able to answer those questions perfectly fine. It doesn't matter right now, though.

Again, how do you know there is an afterlife? Who told you that? As long as I don't see evidence for an afterlife, I am going to assume this is the only life we have.

It's useless to discuss such thing right now as you don't believe in God, therefore you certainly won't believe in an afterlife of any sort. Let's just get back to our main subject for now.

for making life hell for some people just out of spite.

Who said that it is out of spite? Or did you just make that up while typing? Because it sounds so.

I haven't done the research on this yet, but one thing occurs to me. If muslims knew all this through the quran, why didn't they let others in on the secret earlier on? Might have given them some credibility.

There wasn't enough scientific knowledge to prove any kind of miraculous scientific revelation in the Qur'an, it is only when science started to advance that these things have become as apparent as they are now.

In my experience, quotes and verses from religious books are often interpreted out of context to make them seem more important than they really are. But I will withhold judgement on this point until after I do the research.

Not really. Some people might do that but you'll find amazing things in lots of verses and quotes without ever being taken out of context.

I asked the question because apparently in your mind Islam answers these questions of where we came from, and therefore would seem to be the correct religion. So, are you a Muslim? If not, are you considering converting to Islam?

I'm a Muslim. I have been through all of this before and didn't find any real answers until I started exploring and reading about Islam more. It was only then that I found what I was looking for.