That's sad, leibowde. Americans who fought against slavery often did so due to their religious beliefs, by recognizing the immorality of slavery.
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Aussies to vote soon on whether to make gay marriage legal
- Thread starter gottalovemoses
- Start date
leibowde84
Veteran Member
I'm saying that, while they might have claimed that, it was probably not entirely caused by their religious beliefs alone.
Maybe your views are evolving. That doesn't really sound the same as: "Because voting based on your religious beliefs is the same as attempting to force others to live according to those beliefs. I don't think religious beliefs should have any impact on politics/policy whatsoever."
To see how people's religion motivated the abolitionist movement, see: Christian Abolitionism - Wikipedia
Milton Platt
Well-Known Member
You cannot legislate sexual orientation. That is beyond ridiculous. Why would you want to impose discriminatory practices against people just becsuse you don't like who they love? No amount of legislation will prevent homosexuality.
You could of course stone them to death like the Bible requires, I suppose......
leibowde84
Veteran Member
Again, I don't think caring for our fellow man is a religious belief or a consequence of religious beliefs. Many people think that it is (and, I understand that is the reasoning that many in the abolitionist movement gave), but I think there is something deeper, formed out of our societal evolution, that causes most of us to see suffering in our communities and throughout the world and want to stop it. That was my original point. We should strive to see that as our guiding principal rather than rely on religious beliefs that can be so divisive.
In other words, don't base your vote on any supernatural beliefs. Base it on community, compassion, generosity, science, etc. ... all of which, I contend, do not come from religion.
Milton Platt
Well-Known Member
Slavery, and the abolitionist movement were both justified by religion to some degree.... the same religion. Different groups of people cherry picking things from scripture to suit their needs. Thanks for the link, by the way...
It's just haughty and strange to claim that European and American Christian abolitionists didn't understand the source of their views that slavery is immoral.
Hostility toward religion doesn't allow one to rewrite history or deny people's stated motivations.
True. But at the time of the Civil War, there seem to have been more who opposed slavery on moral grounds than those who tried to justify slavery on scriptural grounds.
DavidFirth
Well-Known Member
No one else can.
DavidFirth
Well-Known Member
But it condones slavery.
No, it does not. It simply tells slaves how they ought to behave as Christians.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
So, just to be clear, you don't believe that the 10 commandments apply to Christians?
DavidFirth
Well-Known Member
You're right. You must be born again in Christ in order to fulfill the first 2 commandments.
DavidFirth
Well-Known Member
In what way?
leibowde84
Veteran Member
What does that mean?
leibowde84
Veteran Member
You said that you weren't responsible to follow mosaic law because you aren't Jewish.
DavidFirth
Well-Known Member
And you disagree?
DavidFirth
Well-Known Member
Read John 3. Jesus explains it better than anyone else can.
But it acknowledges slavery as a normal course of affairs.
DavidFirth
Well-Known Member
Slavery was a normal course of affairs back then. It was until the late 1800s.