DavidFirth
Well-Known Member
Give me a scripture from the Bible that agrees with you.
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Aussies to vote soon on whether to make gay marriage legal
- Thread starter gottalovemoses
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Give me a scripture from the Bible that agrees with you.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
See? He never introduced the subject!
Closed hetero marriage was required for the Israelites to grow and become ever stronger.
Adultery and homosexuality were both outside of closed-marriage and could transmit serious sicknesses, which is why no relations were allowed with certain outside nations and tribes.
But we don't need to increase in numbers any more!
So closed-SSM is both sickness free and Earth friendly!
David..... so many Christians disagree with you!
So many Baptist Churches.
The Scottish Episciopal Church.
and more.....
DavidFirth
Well-Known Member
See? He never introduced the subject!
Closed hetero marriage was required for the Israelites to grow and become ever stronger.
Adultery and homosexuality were both outside of closed-marriage and could transmit serious sicknesses, which is why no relations were allowed with certain outside nations and tribes.
But we don't need to increase in numbers any more!
So closed-SSM is both sickness free and Earth friendly!
David..... so many Christians disagree with you!
So many Baptist Churches.
The Scottish Episciopal Church.
and more.....
I don't care about the opinions of men. The Apostle Paul said
1 Timothy 1
9We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.
And concerning their opinions:
Acts 5:29
Peter and the other apostles replied: "We must obey God rather than human beings!
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Christians DO get to vote on it, David.
For a start there is no Mosiac or Christian law against Female SSMs, so let's just look at Gay SSMs......
Because I live in England I looked up the Denominations, Creeds and Churches which accept either Gay Priests, Gay Civil Partnerships or SSM. These are all Christians, David, and they support the above priesthoods, partnerships or SSMs:-
Europ
- Austria: Evangelical Church of the Augsburg Confession in Austria[37]
- Austrian, German, Swiss and Dutch Old Catholic Church
- Austrian, Belgium, Netherlands and Poland Ecumenical Catholic Communion
- Belgium: United Protestant Church in Belgium
- Croatia: Evangelical (Lutheran) Church in Croatia
- Denmark: Church of Denmark
- France: United Protestant Church of France
- Finland: Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland[38] NOTE: The church permits prayers of celebration following a civil union or marriage
- Germany: German Lutheran, reformed and united churches in Evangelical Church in Germany
- Germany: The Social Ethics Ministry of the Central Conference of the United Methodist Church in Germany[39]
- Iceland: Church of Iceland
- Ireland: Church of Ireland[40][41][42] NOTE: Two former archbishops of Dublin, two diocesan bishops, and several congregations affirm LGBTI people
- Ireland: Non-subscribing Presbyterian Church of Ireland[43]
- Ireland: Unitarian Churches in Ireland[44]
- Netherlands: Protestant Church in the Netherlands
- Nordic and Baltic Episcopal Area Conferences of the United Methodist Church[45]
- Norway: Church of Norway
- Portugal - Affirming Pentecostal Church International
- Romania - Unitarian Church of Transylvania[46] NOTE: The deputy bishop endorsed same-sex unions
- Sweden: Church of Sweden
- Switzerland: Evangelical Lutheran Church in Geneva (Genf)[47]
- Switzerland: Swiss reformed churches in Swiss Reformed Church
- British Quakers[48]
- Wales - Affirming Pentecostal Church International
- Albania - Affirming Pentecostal Church International
- Italy - Lutheran Evangelical Church in Italy (CELI)[49][50]
- Italy - Union of Methodist and Waldensian Churches
- Old Catholic Church in Austria, Germany, the Netherlands, and Switzerland[51]
- Poland - Christian United Church in Poland
- United Kingdom (UK) - Church of England[52][53] NOTE: The church has a mixed position. The church allows transgender priests.[54] The C of E allows prayers to follow a civil same-sex marriage, and allows civil partnerships for gay priests. In 2010, the church gave full pension rights to priests in civil partnerships.[55] In 2016, the Bishop of Grantham came out as the first openly gay bishop in a relationship.[56]
- UK - Church in Wales[57][58] NOTE: A majority supports same-sex marriage; the church said LGBT people can be “honest and open, respected and affirmed”. The church also permits gay priests to enter into civil partnerships.[59]
- UK - Church of Ireland congregations may be affirming NOTE: the denomination remains in conversation as a whole;[60] in 2011, a senior cleric entered into a same-sex civil partnership and kept his post.[61]
- UK - Church of Scotland[62] NOTE: The Church of Scotland voted to permit pastors to enter into same-sex marriages
- UK - International Council of Community Churches[16]
- UK - Methodist Church of Great Britain[63] NOTE: The church may bless civil same-sex marriages
This sounds like a good argument for Bible believers to avoid gay marriage.
But why would gay non-believers want to observe that possible prohibition?
DavidFirth
Well-Known Member
I don't care about the opinions of men. The Apostle Paul said
1 Timothy 1
9We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.
And concerning their opinions:
Acts 5:29
Peter and the other apostles replied: "We must obey God rather than human beings!
DavidFirth
Well-Known Member
Evidently they won't and don't.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
I don't think that Paul actually wrote that letter, did he?
Can anybody help here? I thought that 1 Timothy was not one of Paul's proven letters?
I do wish that folks would focus upon what Jesus said.
But that's the point. So many Christians do apply their contrived doctrines into these very judgemental positions.
Christianity is following Jesus more and more, and the Pauline principles less and less.
You don't see the glaring self contradiction here?
Tom
Read this very carefully and absorb:
I. Do. Not. Be. lieve. In. Your. God.
Your version and view of God is meaningless to me and billions of other humans. His commands are not binding on me because I don't believe in him.
Hai capito questo?
You don't give up with your proselytizing, do you? And I'm getting a tad tired of it. Your Christ is not my God.
Not my opinion, but the opinion of people way smarter than me... called Biblical scholars.
Milton Platt
Well-Known Member
Not really about religion. Unless, of course you are wanting to discuss the potential marriage of gay Christians. People who are not a part of your beliefs have no obligation to adhere to your dogma.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
You see?
That's the problem. Christians can cherry-pick the verses that suit mindset, actions, or judgements.
The same letter supports slavery, and other NT books support slavery strongly. Here, I'll show you at the bottom of this post. And this is possibly why some Christians will connect with the love and understanding of Jesus whilst others will vere more closely with the judgemental..... here we go....
Let all who are under a yoke as bondservants[a] regard their own masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be reviled. 2 Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful on the ground that they are brothers; rather they must serve all the better since those who benefit by their good service are believers and beloved. (1 Timothy 6:1-2)
And here are those verses which the Christian slavers clutched to.....
Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. (1 Peter 2:18)
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear (Ephesians 6:5)
Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything (Colossians 3:22)
Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them (Titus 2:9)
DavidFirth
Well-Known Member
You see?
That's the problem. Christians can cherry-pick the verses that suit mindset, actions, or judgements.
The same letter supports slavery, and other NT books support slavery strongly. Here, I'll show you at the bottom of this post. And this is possibly why some Christians will connect with the love and understanding of Jesus whilst others will vere more closely with the judgemental..... here we go....
Let all who are under a yoke as bondservants[a] regard their own masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be reviled. 2 Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful on the ground that they are brothers; rather they must serve all the better since those who benefit by their good service are believers and beloved. (1 Timothy 6:1-2)
And here are those verses which the Christian slavers clutched to.....
Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. (1 Peter 2:18)
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear (Ephesians 6:5)
Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything (Colossians 3:22)
Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them (Titus 2:9)
Those verses were written to slaves, not masters. Masters used those verses inappropriately.
I guess all those slavers and you just totally ignore this verse:
Philemon 1
16 no longer as a slave, but better than a slave, as a dear brother. He is very dear to me but even dearer to you, both as a fellow man and as a brother in the Lord.
Onesimus was a slave. Paul practically begs Philemon to treat him as a brother. I guess that kind of blows your whole theory. Read Philemon and learn something.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Verses which order slaves to obrey their masters, or:-
Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them...... can only support slavery.
No, I don't....
Nowhere anywhere in the NT are slave owning Christians ordered to free their slaves, yet you have previously cherry-picked a verse written by 'who-knows' condemning slavery..... and you have clearly discarded the verses shown that instruct slaves to obey, and slave owners to teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything.
I wonder what everything was.... ?
Something? Learn something? I'm learning something about your particular Church and Creed, David.
There are 3000+ Christian Creeds, Denominations and Churches, and many are coming over (if not there long ago) to Jesus's words which support asexuality, genderlessness, love and understanding.
The need for married folks to reproduce is long gone in our overpopulated World, and so SSM is fine. Jesus would know that.
Fortunately Extreme Christianity has no outright theocracy in our World afaik, and fortunately moderate Christianity is finding a firm foothold, as shown by the list of European Churches that support CPs, SSMs, Gay Clergy, Female Clergy, even female Bishops.
DavidFirth
Well-Known Member
Meh. I got no time for those who will not hear.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
So, Jesus fulfilled the law, including the ten commandments (part of mosaic law), so you don't have to?
leibowde84
Veteran Member
I guess I see no reason to think that anyone acts to help their fellow man simply because of their religious beliefs.
How is it moral to seek to deny loving, committed, responsible same-sex couples the important rights and privileges that come with civil marriage, while happily providing those rights and privileges to criminals?
Even convicted murderers on death row or who will otherwise never seen the light of day again enjoy the right to marry (as long as it's isn't to someone of the same sex). Why shouldn't same-sex couples and their children have the same rights of family as convicted murderers in prison?
Even convicted murderers on death row or who will otherwise never seen the light of day again enjoy the right to marry (as long as it's isn't to someone of the same sex). Why shouldn't same-sex couples and their children have the same rights of family as convicted murderers in prison?