Avi's Spiritual and Religious Journey - Part 2

[Avi1001]

Paar, this is a bunch of goobly-gook, nonsense. Why are you quoting Jewish Scripture? What you are saying here does not have significance. Get a hold of yourself, dude.

I understand that there were signs of a covenant or of a core teachings; described differently by different people like one summarized below:
In general, a brit refers to a covenant--a pledge of obligation between two parties which is sometimes accompanied by a token signifying the brit.
Historically, there have been three signs that point out the three major covenants between God and people.

1.The first is Shabbat.
(Exodus 31:16-17).
2. The second is the rainbow.
(Genesis 9:12-15).
3. And the last is [circumcision]. (Genesis 17:10-11).

by Sharon M. Strassfeld co-author of the Jewish Catalog series.
Biblical Signs of Covenant - My Jewish Learning

But signs whatever their number must be different from the core covenant.

Please quote the covenant from the revealed scripture you believe in; for the claim in this connection and the reason given by it.

Regards

 

[Avi1001]

Lets chat about G-d's image.

If G-d is non-anthropomorphic s/he has no image. It is as simple as that. Why make it more confusing? Case closed.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Lets chat about G-d's image.

If G-d is non-anthropomorphic s/he has no image. It is as simple as that. Why make it more confusing? Case closed.

? 'Image of God' is a phrase in the B-i-b-l-e, printed billions of times in many languages. 'Male and female' is printed right along with it in (Genesis 1:27). 'Image of God' is the fabled reason that murder is wrong. (9:6) If you start saying 'God has no image' are you re-writing a lot of moral reasoning? What becomes of all of the previous deliberation about other lesser topics?

 

[Avi1001]

? 'Image of God' is a phrase in the B-i-b-l-e, printed billions of times in many languages. 'Male and female' is printed right along with it in (Genesis 1:27). 'Image of God' is the fabled reason that murder is wrong. (9:6) If you start saying 'God has no image' are you re-writing a lot of moral reasoning? What becomes of all of the previous deliberation about other lesser topics?

Hey Brickj, you are a Christian, of course G-d has an image to you...I am Jewish, s/he is non-anthropomorphic.

Btw, there is another interpretation of non-anthropomorphic that I appreciate, it is panentheistic, i.e., G-d is everywhere and everything. How can you go wrong with that description? Anyone have a pic of the universe?

 

[Desert Snake]

Hey Brickj, you are a Christian, of course G-d has an image to you...I am Jewish, s/he is non-anthropomorphic.

That's not accurate. I'm Christian and G-d is non-anthropomorphic.

 

[Avi1001]

That's not accurate. I'm Christian and G-d is non-anthropomorphic.

Hmmm.....Unitarian? I give up...want to explain?

 

[Desert Snake]

Hmmm.....Unitarian? I give up...want to explain?

Oh, no I'm non-denomination.
Yeah, it's probably not the usual Christian understanding, I just wanted to bring it up to show that not all Christians view G-d in that manner.

Ooooooooh I see what you mean. Yeah, I guess i'm a bad Christian, nevermind lol.

 

[Avi1001]

Oh, no I'm non-denomination.
Yeah, it's probably not the usual Christian understanding, I just wanted to bring it up to show that not all Christians view G-d in that manner.

Ooooooooh I see what you mean. Yeah, I guess i'm a bad Christian, nevermind lol.

Now I see what brought you to this thread....you are a non-traditional Christian.

You are like a reform Christian..with a small r ().

So keep your eye on what happens to me on this thread....I get hammered by the Conservative and Orthodox Jews, and even one of the three Reform Jews. And it was much worse in the DIR. If your ideas are different you are going to get whacked....hard.

Join the club, Bud!

 

[Brickjectivity]

Hey Brickj, you are a Christian, of course G-d has an image to you...I am Jewish, s/he is non-anthropomorphic.

Btw, there is another interpretation of non-anthropomorphic that I appreciate, it is panentheistic, i.e., G-d is everywhere and everything. How can you go wrong with that description? Anyone have a pic of the universe?

You are saying you grew up Jewish, so you just automatically accept that God has no image like you were programmed to believe when you were a kid. You were programmed to believe in God and also that God has no image, two seemingly contradictory things. Everybody knows that everything that exists has an image. Even so called 'Dark matter' is theoretically detectable.

 

[Avi1001]

You are saying you grew up Jewish, so you just automatically accept that God has no image like you were programmed to believe when you were a kid. You were programmed to believe in God and also that God has no image, two seemingly contradictory things. Everybody knows that everything that exists has an image.

, that's why I like you Brickj.

Yes....it is true.... I was born and raised to be "programmed" to believe that G-d is non-anthropomorphic.

Then......I grew up........to become a scientist and engineer...and learned to reason.....and that it only makes sense that G-d really is non-anthropomorphic.

So you see, Brickj, you hit on a point that I have been trying to explain to these OJ's (Orthodox) and CJ's (Conservatives) since I have been here. My views, as reform (with a small r) as they are, are indeed inherently Jewish. This is why it is so funny, if it were not sad, that they accuse me of having views that are not Jewish.

Also, your idea about everything that exists having an image....is fun, maybe for the next post. Are you sure this is true? Did you ever watch Star Trek? Didn't they have an invisibility cloaking device

 

[Brickjectivity]

So you see, Brickj, you hit on a point that I have been trying to tell these OJ's (Orthodox) and CJ's (Conservatives) since I have been here. My views, as reform (with a small r) as they are, are indeed inherently Jewish. This is why it is so funny, if it were not sad, that they accuse me of not being Jewish.

Every club has its membership requirements, its dues. Jews are just people who pay their dues. Clubs have levels of membership, levels of participation. Your club membership deails depend upon how much you pay or how much you are willing to work. Levite and Dantech do a bunch of prayers every day, they study their eyes out, and they force their brains through the Tamudic discussions. Perhaps they also have cut themselves off from certain pleasures and recreations. Is that not like paying dues? Of course its only natural that if you appear not to pay dues that your own love for the club is in question.

 

[Avi1001]

Every club has its membership requirements, its dues. Jews are just people who pay their dues. Clubs have levels of membership, levels of participation. Your club membership deails depend upon how much you pay or how much you are willing to work. Levite and Dantech do a bunch of prayers every day, they study their eyes out, and they force their brains through the Tamudic discussions. Perhaps they also have cut themselves off from certain pleasures and recreations. Is that not like paying dues? Of course its only natural that if you appear not to pay dues that your own love for the club is in question.

Very good,Brickj. But keep in mind, just because the folks are card carrying members, in no way makes them right. They need to be able to articulate and defend their positions, otherwise....it is merely a matter of faith.

Oh, yeah, and since I will no doubt be criticized for my ideas about Circumscism, keep in mind that they will argue how central Circumscism is to Judaism, but not even mention non-anthropomorphism.

And your ideas about hard work, prayer and asceticism are interesting, also maybe for an upcoming post.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Very good,Brickj. But keep in mind, just because the folks are card carrying members, in no way makes them right. They need to be able to articulate and defend their positions, otherwise....it is merely a matter of faith.

I didn't say it was just because of that. There is also tradition -- the fact that many Jews have died through the centuries not knowing how their deaths would be justified, only that they would be justified through the righteous acts of those following. Don't the traditional Jews have a responsibility to insure that those deaths are honoured? Then it seems part of the dues is to give assurances that they will be honoured, making it less a matter of belief and more of responsibility.

Oh, yeah, and since I will no doubt be criticized for my ideas about Circumscism, keep in mind that they will argue how central Circumscism is to Judaism, but not even mention non-anthropomorphism.

I had thought Jews didn't do much anthropomorph-a-mizing 'God'?

And your ideas about hard work, prayer and asceticism are interesting, also maybe for an upcoming post.

I would prefer more on the first paragraph about honouring the dead, the parents, traditions etc. How does tradition cope with change? How can you break with tradition and keep the hopes of the patriarchs alive at the same time?

 

[Avi1001]

I didn't say it was just because of that. There is also tradition -- the fact that many Jews have died through the centuries not knowing how their deaths would be justified, only that they would be justified through the righteous acts of those following. Don't the traditional Jews have a responsibility to insure that those deaths are honoured? Then it seems part of the dues is to give assurances that they will be honoured, making it less a matter of belief and more of responsibility.

You've been watching "Fiddler On the Roof"

Reconstructionists (in my view, another group of reformers with a small r) say:"Tradition has a vote, but not a veto". What does this mean to you?

I had thought Jews didn't do much anthropomorph-a-mizing 'God'?

Correct.

I would prefer more on the first paragraph about honouring the dead, the parents, traditions etc. How does tradition cope with change? How can you break with tradition and keep the hopes of the patriarchs alive at the same time?

I would prefer more on how to create a better world.

 

[Flankerl]

I can't believe it, but I think I am actually going to have to agree with Paar, here.

All three, Kabbalah, Circumscism and homosexuality are not central issues in Judaism.

Ethical and moral behavior, the relation between man and (wo)man is the central concept.

Thank you for this observation, my new Muslim friend.

Too bad Hashem thinks otherwise. See Berei**** 17:14

Seems to be quite a big deal to him to make a statement like that.

I understand that there were signs of a covenant or of a core teachings; described differently by different people like one summarized below:
In general, a brit refers to a covenant--a pledge of obligation between two parties which is sometimes accompanied by a token signifying the brit.
Historically, there have been three signs that point out the three major covenants between God and people.

1.The first is Shabbat.
(Exodus 31:16-17).
2. The second is the rainbow.
(Genesis 9:12-15).
3. And the last is [circumcision]. (Genesis 17:10-11).

by Sharon M. Strassfeld co-author of the Jewish Catalog series.
Biblical Signs of Covenant - My Jewish Learning

But signs whatever their number must be different from the core covenant.

Please quote the covenant from the revealed scripture you believe in; for the claim in this connection and the reason given by it.

Regards

The circumcision on the 8th day is a sign of the convenant. True dat.
At the same time its the root and therefore beginning of the convenant long before Moshe first made poopoo.
It precedes the Torah by quite some time and is still the very first duty a male Jew has to follow otherwise he wont be part of the Nation.


Why yes of course that doesnt sound like a core covenant at all.

 

[Desert Snake]

Oh, yeah, and since I will no doubt be criticized for my ideas about Circumscism, keep in mind that they will argue how central Circumscism is to Judaism, but not even mention non-anthropomorphism.

Personally, I don't think it is 'necessary'.

 

[paarsurrey]

, that's why I like you Brickj.

Yes....it is true.... I was born and raised to be "programmed" to believe that G-d is non-anthropomorphic.

Then......I grew up........to become a scientist and engineer...and learned to reason.....and that it only makes sense that G-d really is non-anthropomorphic.

I agree with you here.
The truthful religion supports it.
Regards

 

[RabbiO]

Every club has its membership requirements, its dues. Jews are just people who pay their dues. Clubs have levels of membership, levels of participation. Your club membership deails depend upon how much you pay or how much you are willing to work. Levite and Dantech do a bunch of prayers every day, they study their eyes out, and they force their brains through the Tamudic discussions. Perhaps they also have cut themselves off from certain pleasures and recreations. Is that not like paying dues? Of course its only natural that if you appear not to pay dues that your own love for the club is in question.

 

[paarsurrey]

Reconstructionists (in my view, another group of reformers with a small r) say:"Tradition has a vote, but not a veto". What does this mean to you?

I agree with you here; the tradition has to be followed:
1. If it has proven continuity beyond doubt from the original law-giver prophet-messenger
2. and it has been commanded in the original Word of Revelation in the original language
3. and the law-giving prophet/messenger has demonstrated in action to fulfill the law.
4. The Word Revealed has also given the reason or wisdom of the commandment.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Why yes of course that doesnt sound like a core covenant at all.

You are just describing the signs of the covenant; where is the covenant?
Please quote for the claim/covenant from the revealed scripture you believe in and the gist of reason/wisdom provided by the scripture.

Regards