Avi's Spiritual and Religious Journey - Part 2

[paarsurrey]

so you leave it to a book written by Ezra around 500 B.C.E. ?

Which book you mean? Please

Regards

 

[Flankerl]

Following Torah means do the right thing when it comes to ethical behavior.

Is cutting off the foreskin an act of ethics? If not, it is not required.

Which parts of Torah are meant to be literal? Who decides: you, Tumah, Levite, Rabbio, Metis, punkdbass, me ?

Do you believe human sacrifices are ethical? Are you fearful that you lack the common sense to decide, so you leave it to a book written by Ezra around 500 B.C.E. ?

Yeah yeah good for you.

You know there are also other Books on the market that offer ways to make your life better. You should try one of those.

 

[Desert Snake]

Yeah yeah good for you.

You know there are also other Books on the market that offer ways to make your life better. You should try one of those.

Tell me, are atheists who maintain the Torah laws practicing Judaism?

Are they practicing Judaism in any manner of a correct way?

 

[RabbiO]

Tell me, are atheists who maintain the Torah laws practicing Judaism?

Are they practicing Judaism in any manner of a correct way?

Are we talking about atheists who are Jews?

If so, the answer is yes.

 

[Desert Snake]

Are we talking about atheists who are Jews?

If so, the answer is yes.

I don't know how you reach that conclusion, since the Covenant was given by G-d, we don't even have to get into various Torah laws which predicate value upon ones belief in G-d.

But, if that is Rabbinical Judaic opinion, then so be it.

 

[RabbiO]

I don't know how you reach that conclusion, since the Covenant was given by G-d, we don't even have to get into various Torah laws which predicate value upon ones belief in G-d.

But, if that is Rabbinical Judaic opinion, then so be it.

You have a problem with rabbinical Judaism?

You want to tell Jews how to practice Judaism?

Thank you, but no thank you.

 

[Desert Snake]

You have a problem with rabbinical Judaism?

You want to tell Jews how to practice Judaism?

Thank you, but no thank you.

You inferred that. I don't have a 'problem' with any religion.

Doesn't mean I have to agree with it.

 

[RabbiO]

It might be Avi that you might find yourself most at home with the Humanistic Judaism movement. Now, as you have identified yourself as a theist you might have to engage in a little "don't ask - don't tell" policy in that the movement discourages the use of the "G" word, but otherwise I think you would find it much to your liking.

As the movement says about itself......

Humanistic Judaism .....defines Judaism as the cultural andhistorical experience of the Jewish people. Humanistic Judaism embraces a human-centered philosophy that combines rational thinking with a deep connection to the Jewish people and its culture. Humanistic Jews value their Jewish identity and the aspects of Judaism that offer a genuine expression of their contemporary way of life.

What do Humanistic Jews affirm?

• Human beings possess the power and responsibility to shape their own lives independent of supernatural authority.
• A Jew is a person who identifies with the history, culture, and future of the Jewish people.
• Judaism is the historic culture of the Jewish people.
• Jewish history is a human saga, a testament to the significance of human power and responsibility.
• Jewish identity is best preserved in a free, pluralistic environment.
• Ethics and morality should serve human needs.
• The freedom and dignity of the Jewish people must go hand in hand with the freedom and dignity of every human being.

What do Humanistic Jews believe?

• Each Jew has the right to create a meaningful Jewish lifestyle free from supernatural authority and imposed tradition. Humanistic philosophy affirms that knowledge and power come from people and from the natural world in which they live. Jewish continuity needs reconciliation between science, personal autonomy, and Jewish loyalty.
• The goal of life is personal dignity and self-esteem. Life is worthwhile when all persons see themselves as worthwhile. Dignity and self-esteem are distinct from happiness. Happiness is less the goal of life than the consequence of having attained it. Self-esteem is dependent upon autonomy. Each autonomous person feels responsible for the basic direction of his/her own life and that no one else has the right to usurp that responsibility. Autonomy does not mean that each person is individually self-sufficient. Healthy dependence is horizontal rather than vertical.
• The secular roots of Jewish life are as important as the religious ones. Judaism is an ethnic culture. It did not fall from heaven. It was not invented by a divine spokesperson. It was created by the Jewish people. It was molded by Jewish experience. Holidays are responses to human events. Ceremonies are celebrations of human development. Music and literature are inspired by human experience.
• Humanistic Jews teach and learn ethical behavior. Skills for survival and happiness are not instinctive. They are acquired. Self-reliance, cooperation, generosity, compassion, and rationality are daily exercises. They are just as important as academic skills.

I'm sure you've visited the website, but here is the link anyway:
SHJ: Society for Humanistic Judaism

 

[Avi1001]

Hi again, Paar, I am fine with this definition, except maybe the last part, about the beautiful names....how silly.

Anyway, you are my new Muslim friend, so lets try working on the tolerance thing.

My Rabbi, Rabbio, pointed out that you are an Ahmadi Muslum....should I care? Can you be friends with a reform Jew? If that is where we start, does the rest matter?

I read the link that Rabbio posted about Ahmadi Muslim's and you guys look ok to me. How are you about peace with Israel and all that jazz ?

In brief:

The One-True-God is One (explicitly rejecting polytheism, dualism, and trinitarianism, which are "incompatible with monotheism, emphatically rejecting any concept of plurality with respect to God), He is the Creator of the universe (Creator of heaven and earth and all between them), He is all-powerful, He is eternal, He is the Beginning and End), He is omnipotent, omniscient, and Omni-benevolent, living and loving. He is not only cosmic but also personal , He is the God, Who hears and answers, He is neither corporeal nor anthropomorphic, He can be experienced, God is utterly unlike humankind, He is only worthy of worship and hence one must pray directly to God, there are no intermediaries between Him and us the human being , one must not pray to anyone or anything else. He has beautiful names; He has all the beautiful attributes with no blemish...........
Etc., etc.,etc.,...

Regards

 

[Avi1001]

How about a "Confused Jew" (big C)?

How about a confused reform Jew, or a "Curfew" ?

 

[Avi1001]

Now you are getting carried away with yourself, Paar. Did all this mumbo-jumbo come from the Quran?

If were gonna be friends, lets cut all the dogma, ok?

Do you agree that ethics and morality are the most important part of religion?

Are any of your best friends Jews ?

Also, I have some healthy doubts about these "revealed books".

Are you an Ahmadi Atheist, Ahmadi Agnostic or other form of Ahmadian ?

In brief:

All righteous persons among the human beings chosen by the One-True-God, purely on His own discretion, with a Message from Him to be delivered to the human kind, from anywhere in the world whether their names have been mentioned in the Revealed books or not are the Truthful Prophets.
The words of the prophets are true.

All prophets are innocent; they being humans could make mistakes; but make no sins; if they err, they ask forgiveness from the One-True-God; and are forgiven by Him strictly on His discretion.

Regards

 

[dantech]

This whole post is about your wanting to be complimented. I will compliment you when you say something worth your being complimented on.

In the meantime, lets keep the posts related to religious and spiritual growth.

If that's what you believe then you completely missed the point.

 

[dantech]

How many reform Jews do you know? I can answer. Two. Metis and I. Punkdbass was 3 but he left. That leaves you a small sample size.

Do not presume to know anything about my personal life... I've actually dated a reform Jew for close to two years a little while before I met my wife...

 

[Avi1001]

If that's what you believe then you completely missed the point.

Look it, Dan, you are one of my favorite OJ's (Orthodox), but you have to acknowledge that reform Jew's are much more logical and rational than your approach. We look at cause and effect and utilize logic in our study of religion. You guys always resort to the leap of faith. Take the Revelation, for example. Do you believe that G-d literally gave Moses the Ten Commandments? Can you give other examples of literal aspects of Torah that you believe?

 

[Avi1001]

Do not presume to know anything about my personal life... I've actually dated a reform Jew for close to two years a little while before I met my wife...

OMG, are you serious .....that must have been a roller coaster ride. Was she as liberal as me?

 

[dantech]

Following Torah means do the right thing when it comes to ethical behavior.

According to who?

Is cutting off the foreskin an act of ethics? If not, it is not required.

according to who?

Which parts of Torah are meant to be literal? Who decides: you, Tumah, Levite, Rabbio, Metis, punkdbass, me ?

that's a fair question, however some parts can't be read or understood in any way other than in a literal one...

Do you believe human sacrifices are ethical? Are you fearful that you lack the common sense to decide, so you leave it to a book written by Ezra around 500 B.C.E. ?

So you consider circumcision to be human sacrifice or did I just misunderstand? And again, why must the Torah's law be about ethics?

Also, do you believe Ezra wrote the Torah from scratch? Is he the author? That's how you're making it seem...

 

[dantech]

Look it, Dan, you are one of my favorite OJ's (Orthodox), but you have to acknowledge that reform Jew's are much more logical and rational than your approach. We look at cause and effect and utilize logic in our study of religion. You guys always resort to the leap of faith. Take the Revelation, for example. Do you believe that G-d literally gave Moses the Ten Commandments? Can you give other examples of literal aspects of Torah that you believe?

Define logic? And is it universally agreed upon?

 

[dantech]

OMG, are you serious .....that must have been a roller coaster ride. Was she as liberal as me?

I'm very serious. It was fine and we broke up because we both thought it would be very difficult to start a family together what with our different beliefs.


No one is as liberal as you, Avi...

 

[Avi1001]

Yeah yeah good for you.

You know there are also other Books on the market that offer ways to make your life better. You should try one of those.

Be nice, Flankie, CJ's (Conservative) have to be polite.

 

[Avi1001]

Which book you mean? Please

Regards

Do you know who Ezra was ?