Basis for Trusting Muhammad?

[InvestigateTruth]

Yes, yes you play with the word "prophet" and "messenger" like the Ahmadiyas.



The Quran is the final Book, Islam is the last religion and the only religion accepted by God now. This is what Allah said in the Quran.

Allah said to follow Muhammad and the Quran yet now you say we need to follow someone else and another book ...

Ok then tell me what your prophet bring that we need to know about. What Allah didn't say to Muhammad that He needs to tell to Bahalullah.

Is it not evident that almost nobody heard about him ? I heard about him when i came in this forum.
My mother never heard about your religion like all my familly and probably almost all my friends and they will probably never heard about it like majority of the world.

What is that unnoticed prophet that Allah would send to people ? If Allah wanted to say something He just would have said it to Muhammad, the message would have reached us.



That's why the prophet of Ahmadiya proclamed to be a prophet, and the prophet/messiah of Nation of Islam did the same... and by the way after Muhammad many proclamed to be prophets or the messiah. Prophet Muhammad said that will happened in some hadiths and of course some even said they were the anti-christ.



No, Allah said he is capable to change us, he didn't not say He will do it.

Do you think that Allah changed us for you ? That's why you don't call yourself muslim ?

Or are you saying you are not part of Islam so not part of Muhammad ummah ?

How long it took for people on the earth to hear about Jesus after He had recieved His revelation?

What about Muhmmad? How long it took for all people hear about Him after He recieved His Revelation?
Who played with word Messenger or Prophet? I simply pointed the error in the Translation. By the way, do you know the difference between Nabi and Rasoul?

" To every people is a term appointed: when their term is reached, not an hour can they cause delay, nor (an hour) can they advance (it in anticipation).
O children of Adam! there shall come to you Apostles from among yourselves, rehearsing my signs to you; and whoso shall fear God and do good works, no fear shall be upon them, neither shall they be put to grief.". Quran 7:34-35



Just to understand the above verses, it means every People have a period. For example, Christians Term was 600 years. Once their Term reached God did not delay it even one hour. he immidiately sent His Messenger.
According to the above verses, all people have a Term. That includes Muslims, when their term is reached, God sent next Messenger to them.
Moreover, in Quran and Hadith, the term for Muslims was 1000 years, then the End comes. Already more than 1400 years is passed.

The Quran is the final Book, Islam is the last religion and the only religion accepted by God now. This is what Allah said in the Quran

There is no verse in Quran that says, it is the final Book.

Quran teaches, for every period there is a Book (13:38-39). That means Quran was revealed for a period. Not for all the time!

The only acceptable Religion, is submission to God. This is what God said. Therefore when God sends a New Messenger, those who Submit to God, follow the new messenger of God. Those who disbelieve are not submitting to God!

 

[InvestigateTruth]

The topic is about Islam, you're the one engaging Bahaism into it.

For the record, it is Bahai Faith.

 

[Shiranui117]

He has a much higher charisma score than me.

You can dispute his Charisma check with an Insight check. So if you have high Wisdom, you're set.

 

[MD]

Did you read the book?

Yes. And the miracles. And the prophecies. It's all pure bull****.

1. Americans and British has been digging/fighting oil in Arabia/Persia since 1915 or so. So I hope you not talking about those wars.

2. Who had more wars? China, Europe/America, Africa or Arabia/Persia?

Do you know any Middle Eastern history? How did Islam get to Persia? How did Islam spread to India? All Empires have wars, Islam spread because they believed theirs is the eternal truth. How come there are almost no indigenous middle eastern faiths?

 

[ukok102nak]

as they say
:read:
Think not that we come to disobey the rules, or the belief of individual: we not come to disobey, but to fulfill.


:ty:



godbless
unto all always

 

[sovietchild]

How come there are almost no indigenous middle eastern faiths?

Everything goes old (shoes, cloth, your faith) and nothing stays the same.

The Messenger of Allah said, "Islam will perish (i.e., knowledge will perish and its traces will be effaced) like the embroideries of a garment perish, until (the time) when fasting, prayer, worship, and charity will not be known; when in one night forgetfulness will pass over the Book (the Qur'an) and not a single Verse from it will remain on the earth. A group of people will remain — the aged man and woman — who will say, 'We were around when our father was upon this word: Laailaha illallaah (none has the right to be worshipped but Allah), but they will not know what is prayer, fasting, worship, or charity."

 

[ukok102nak]

@ sovietchild

also
it is been said by the one who has
the good and who doesnt lie
alongside with him
and it is said with this kind of way
the way as it is written
(carefully check every single detail on it
then kindly correct us if we are wrong)
:read:
So likewise all of you, when all of you shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words b shall not pass away.


:ty:



godbless
unto all always

 

[sovietchild]

@ sovietchild

also
it is been said by the one who has
the good and who doesnt lie
alongside with him
and it is said with this kind of way
the way as it is written
(carefully check every single detail on it
then kindly correct us if we are wrong)
:read:
So likewise all of you, when all of you shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words b shall not pass away.


:ty:



godbless
unto all always

What are you trying to say?

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

That doesn't follow because Muhammad rewrote Jesus' character when he wrote the Quran. You're saying Christians disbelieve in Jesus; not true. They don't believe in your version of Jesus.

They dont believe in their own bible lol

Jesus clearly said God is One, clearly said he worships God, said Why calls me good only God is good, said God is greater than me.


Muslims have more right on Moses and Jesus than Jews and christians.

 

[ukok102nak]

What are you trying to say?

:smoke: what we meant to say is
this as it is written
(carefully check every single detail on it
then kindly correct us if we are wrong)
:read:
For he whom God has sent speaks the words of God: for God gives not the Spirit by measure unto him.

Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.
~;> THAT IS WHY
If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
→ THAT'S WHAT CHRISTJESUS SAID THIS THINGS
DURING THAT TIME as it is written
(carefully check every single detail on it
then kindly correct us if we are wrong)
:read:
Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?

Jesus says unto him, I say not unto you, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.

and we find it as a fact and true
that
every human kindness has their part inside of them that is known as conscience
as being merciful unto their fellow humans
for humans are more civilized and not like those savage animals within the wilderness

. ... by the way
is it being merciful is one of the teachings of allah and being preach by muhammad
... . just askin


:ty:



godbless
unto all always

 

[ukok102nak]

They dont believe in their own bible lol

Jesus clearly said God is One, clearly said he worships God, said Why calls me good only God is good, said God is greater than me.


Muslims have more right on Moses and Jesus than Jews and christians.

:smoke: indeed

anyone could have more right
if it is good and if it cannot lie
and that's how everyone would
believe unto everything who is good and who doesnt lie

~;> that is why
christjesus told this things before
and even the prophet samuel said this things before
(Wherefore it came to pass, when the time was come about after Hannah had conceived, that she bare a son, and called his name Samuel, saying, Because I have asked him of the LORD.)
:read: (as it is written carefully check every single detail on it
then kindly correct us if we are wrong)

"Now these be the last words of David. David the son of Jesse said, and the man who was raised up on high, the anointed of the God of Jacob, and the sweet psalmist of Israel, said,
The Spirit of the LORD spoke by me, and his word was in my tongue."

. ... also
we dont believe this kind of jesus
(as it is written carefully check every single detail on it
then kindly correct us if we are wrong)
:read:
And when they had gone through the isle unto Paphos, they found a certain sorcerer, a false prophet, a Jew, whose name was Barjesus:

... . therefore we conclude that
during that time when christjesus
is still in human form he has done many goodthings but despite of this those people in the past resisted him
(as it is written carefully check every single detail on it
then kindly correct us if we are wrong)
:read:
The high priest then asked Jesus of his disciples, and of his doctrine.
Jesus answered him, I spoke openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, where the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing.
Why ask you me? ask them which heard me, what I have said unto them: behold, they know what I said.
And when he had thus spoken, one of the officers which stood by struck Jesus with the palm of his hand, saying, Answer you the high priest so?
Jesus answered him, If I have spoken evil, bear witness of the evil: but if well, why smite you me?

i think its only fair to say something as you have already done your part


:ty:



godbless
unto all allways

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

They dont believe in their own bible lol

Jesus clearly said God is One, clearly said he worships God, said Why calls me good only God is good, said God is greater than me.

I agree that Trinitarian theology & Original Sin are huge stumbling blocks in terms of logic and, well, sheer common sense. Why would you sacrifice yourself to yourself in order to save your creation from a sinful state you inflicted upon them and could have removed at any time before then?

That said, I don't understand the logic of your position. Aside from the fact it's well documented that the Bible has been altered multiple times over the centuries to make it sound as though it supports one theological position about the nature of God or another; I really don't understand why Muslims seem so eager to place limits on God. You say he is all-powerful but couldn't possibly have
a) invested some of his essence into a human body so he could consciously interact with humankind directly or;
b) invested some of his powers into a chosen vessel he made to act in the world on his behalf?

Why couldn't an all-powerful being have done either of these things? If God could not then surely he is not all-powerful. Neither option A nor B wouldn't have changed the idea that God is One. Most Christians worship Jesus because he is God. Remember, God appears to Moses as a burning bush but I never hear Muslims argue that because of this the Jews are polytheists and blasphemers for saying God did this in their scripture.

Muslims have more right on Moses and Jesus than Jews and christians.

Yet your claim to Jesus is just as tenuous as that of Christians if not more so. One of the reasons Muslims deny the claims made by Christians is because their scriptures were written & compiled long after the fact but the Quran is even more distanced from the events. And you have no right as a non-Jew to say you have a superior claim to Moses as a religious figure than people who follow his religious tradition. That is sheer arrogance. You're engaging in exactly the same kind of behaviour Bahais engage in when they claim Muhammad as a sacred figure in their faith.

 

[serp777]

I don't think I would believe he was a prophet, but if I were to believe that he was, the main reason would probably be the Qur'an—from a linguistic standpoint, not a theological or philosophical one.

Classical Arabic poetry is immensely excellent in terms of its eloquence, vocabulary, and grammar, yet the Qur'an easily surpasses it. Some of the greatest Arab poets lived before and during Muhammad's time, and a lot of them were non-Muslims. Yet they couldn't outclass the linguistic brilliance of the Qur'an. It's also not an entirely subjective matter, since the Arabic language has more or less standard criteria for determining what is or isn't linguistically outstanding. Grammar is one criterion; many Arabic poems contain grammatical mistakes. The Qur'an doesn't. This includes sometimes compromising grammatical rules for the sake of "poetic liberty," but the Qur'an doesn't do that in a single one of its 114 surahs.

Also, Arabic literature and poetry became heavily influenced by the Qur'an, which indicates that its linguistic value is not just a matter of subjective opinion. Basically, if you want to give an example of correct usage of a grammatical, poetic, or rhetorical rule in Arabic, you use the Qur'an before anything else. It's no easy feat for a book to remain the primary reference for a language as complex as Arabic over the span of fourteen centuries.

Another one of the Qur'an's unique features is that it has seven main different readings depending on placement of diacritics and, sometimes, placement of letters. This might sound ordinary at first, but what I find most interesting about it is that all of the different readings make sense in context. They weren't just made up for the sake of multiplying the number of possible ways to read the Qur'an; they're merely an expansion of the linguistic depth of the Qur'an.

Personally, I don't think that achieving a remarkable feat in any given field, be it poetry or science or anything else, necessarily justifies a claim of prophecy, but what I'm saying here is that I don't share some people's view that considering the Qur'an a sign of prophecy is insane or something. I think a case could be argued for it—granted, not necessarily a convincing case, but definitely not necessarily an "insane" one either. The Qur'an is, simply put, beyond phenomenal as far as language goes.

All a matter of opinion. To me the quran consists of some boring, repetitive poetry and is full of out of date moral precepts. Its absolutely a matter of opinion.

 

[Aupmanyav]

You're engaging in exactly the same kind of behaviour Bahais engage in when they claim Muhammad as a sacred figure in their faith.

All Abrahamic religions have done that since the time of Moses. Jesus, Mohammad, Joseph Smith, Bahais, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, and many others who did not succeed. It is a standard plot. It will be repeated in future also.

 

[Shad]

If competition in constructing the taller buildings was known to people at that time then how

Again as per Augustus one can look in areas in which the upper classes reside. The upper classes usually believe that wealth needs to be displayed. From clothing, food choices, and buildings.

they didn't ask the prophet that we are already competing in constructing the taller buildings.

Their ignorance is not a defense. Also I doubt the poor were oblivious to how the rich lived. You are speculating, nothing more

When the prophet mentioned a future event then that understood not yet known to happen at his time otherwise why a prophecy.

The prophecy could of mentioned height in measurements like feet, it didn't. People weren't oblivious to the idea of a building having more than one level. The prophecy is vague so you can fill in the blanks. You see vagueness as a strength when it is a weakness. You will claim because based on your own idea of what tall means that this prophecy is happening now. When it doesn't someone just like you the next century will be claiming that building which exceed our current capability are what the prophecy refers to. Then the next century and next person, so on and so on.

Here is a prophecies based on vagueness.

Quantum reality will be made of stuff from a layer we can not see now. So when we find this layer make sure you remember how great my prophecy was. Stuff becomes whatever that layer is made of.
There will a war somewhere in the future
You will defend your vague prophecy with more vagueness

You completely dodged my questions.

 

[sovietchild]

:smoke: what we meant to say is
this as it is written
(carefully check every single detail on it
then kindly correct us if we are wrong)
:read:
For he whom God has sent speaks the words of God: for God gives not the Spirit by measure unto him.

Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.
~;> THAT IS WHY
If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
→ THAT'S WHAT CHRISTJESUS SAID THIS THINGS
DURING THAT TIME as it is written
(carefully check every single detail on it
then kindly correct us if we are wrong)
:read:
Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?

Jesus says unto him, I say not unto you, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.

and we find it as a fact and true
that
every human kindness has their part inside of them that is known as conscience
as being merciful unto their fellow humans
for humans are more civilized and not like those savage animals within the wilderness

. ... by the way
is it being merciful is one of the teachings of allah and being preach by muhammad
... . just askin


:ty:



godbless
unto all always

 

[viole]

A man comes out of a cave and claims he recieved a prophecy. Why do you believe him?

Yes, I understand he was successful in his wars. But does that make him more heaven-sent than any other successful general?

If you were around in the time of Muhammad, on what basis would you believe he's telling the truth?

I don't think Muhammad was the only one. Most, if not all, prophets receive prophecies or revelations (and in some cases commandments) when nobody else is watching.

Why we do believe both them and the idea that God needs intermediaries in order to communicate His will and existence, is left as a simple exercise to the reader

Ciao

- viole

 

[Aupmanyav]

I

I don't think Muhammad was the only one. Most, if not all, prophets receive prophecies or revelations (and in some cases commandments) when nobody else is watching.

In one instance Umm Ayesha narrated "Verily I saw the Prophet being inspired Divinely on a very cold day and noticed the Sweat dropping from his forehead (as the Inspiration was over)." There must have been other instances also.

 

[Debater Slayer]

All a matter of opinion. To me the quran consists of some boring, repetitive poetry and is full of out of date moral precepts. Its absolutely a matter of opinion.

I was talking exclusively about the linguistic aspects of the Qur'an, not the moral or philosophical ones.

Do you know Arabic? Because if you don't, I understand that the Qur'an can sound especially repetitive. The English translations I've come across of the Qur'an can be very monotonous compared to the Arabic version.

 

[Shad]

They dont believe in their own bible lol

Jesus clearly said God is One, clearly said he worships God, said Why calls me good only God is good, said God is greater than me.


Muslims have more right on Moses and Jesus than Jews and christians.

A fine demonstration of one person that has never actually read the Bible since they are oblivious to the verses which establish Jesus is God, is the Father and are one.

John 10:30
John 10:33

You can also read Mark is which Jesus does not tell people to not worship him as they are to worship God only. If he accepts their worship he is making a claim of being God. You can read Matthew regarding worshiping Jesus. Again read the Bible.