Believers and Disbelievers

[muhammad_isa]

But how do you know one is true and the other isn't?

We have to use our intelligence ... not just 'pick a god randomly' ..
Belief in the Creator of the universe is a personal thing .. many disbelievers would like us to think that 'all gods' are the same. That is nothing but lies!

 

[ImmortalFlame]

We have to use our intelligence ... not just 'pick a god randomly' ..
Belief in the Creator of the universe is a personal thing .. many disbelievers would like us to think that 'all gods' are the same. That is nothing but lies!

You haven't answered my question. How do you distinguish a God which is real from a God which isn't? Please demonstrate how and why you concluded that the God you believe exists is credible while the Gods believed in by the ancient Greeks are not.

 

[muhammad_isa]

You haven't answered my question. How do you distinguish a God which is real from a God which isn't? Please demonstrate how and why you concluded that the God you believe exists is credible while the Gods believed in by the ancient Greeks are not.

Why? What is your intention? Have uyou really no idea?
I have been explaining over the last few posts .. can you not determine the main difference between them?

Forget about gods being invisible and all that 'bull'!
Concentrate on what 'a god' is and where it came from etc.
Billions of people seem able to distinguish between them .. why can't you?? Maybe you just wish to be obtuse?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

But even El/Yahweh may have started off as a mortal (after all, eating some special fruit in a special garden can make one godlike). Lots of humans have been deified over the course of human history. I mean, look at Jesus and see just how little relative time it took to deify HIM. In India you can be called a god if you were born with multiple arms or something. It's not really hard to imagine that, while I believe in God as a generally eternal being, the character noted in the relevant scriptures is based on just some important guy...

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Why? What is your intention?

Because I want to know the rationale behind your position. Why does anyone ask any kind of question about another person's opinions or beliefs?

Have uyou really no idea?
I have been explaining over the last few posts .. can you not determine the main difference between them?

All you have been doing over the last few posts is repeating your claim. You haven't actually presented any real reasoning behind your claims. You are just saying "This idea of God(s) is like X, therefore it is believable" and "This idea of God(s) is like Y, therefore it is not believable". You have demonstrated any rationale behind why X is more believable than Y.

Forget about gods being invisible and all that 'bull'!
Concentrate on what 'a god' is and where it came from etc.
Billions of people seem able to distinguish between them .. why can't you?? Maybe you just wish to be obtuse?

You're the one being obtuse if you can't answer a simple question. You have made very specific claims that a particular interpretation of God(s) is less worth believing than another, and you have yet to explain why you believe that. If you can't answer my question, then that is a clear sign that you don't actually HAVE a reason, and are just being irrational and hypocritical.

 

[muhammad_isa]

...
You have made very specific claims that a particular interpretation of God(s) is less worth believing than another, and you have yet to explain why you believe that. If you can't answer my question, then that is a clear sign that you don't actually HAVE a reason, and are just being irrational and hypocritical.

I can answer your question, and have already done so..
Almighty God created the universe .. I'm not referring to Islam or Christianity or Hindu etc.
I am referring to the Creator of the universe .. most man-made gods are not claimed to be Divine .. thsy also tend to be associated with a particular culture or region.

Of course, you know this already, and I don't expect any sensible reply from you..

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I can answer your question, and have already done so..
Almighty God created the universe .. I'm not referring to Islam or Christianity or Hindu etc.
I am referring to the Creator of the universe .. most man-made gods are not claimed to be Divine .. thsy also tend to be associated with a particular culture or region.

Of course, you know this already, and I don't expect any sensible reply from you..

Again, you have not answered my question. My question was what makes one more BELIEVABLE to you than the other. Why is one believable while the other is not? Pointing out the differences between them does not indicate WHY you find one more BELIEVABLE than the other. What makes you so certain that THEY are "man-made" and the Almighty God you believe in isn't?

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

ONE god of many tongue and culture .
One Doctrine of understanding of Allah God or ?!??(Free Religion includes The Right to Doubt )
No eat babies or blood sacrifice
Jewish
Muslim
Sikh - inc Hinduism (many form)Buddhism(no form)
Christian

From 3 make 4 that = 1

Simple

And dare I say it ,,,a new temple in a location in Jerusalem where all can go and not be yelled at .

The world full of nukes , those nanoseconds will feel like the second coming religion the way is structured is a curse waiting to happen .
To disagree over life value systems is different but to argue over 1 god on technicality is children , children fall out over silly things ,.

 

[Paleo]

If one asked I'd say I'm a 'believer' however certainly not in the conventional sense.

I believe in many Gods, demons, maybe angels, spirits, etc. but as far as believing in an omnipotent, creator God I suppose it's possible. I feel Enki or Lucifer probably had something do with it but it's just a theory, one of which I can not prove.

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

If one asked I'd say I'm a 'believer' however certainly not in the conventional sense.

I believe in many Gods, demons, maybe angels, spirits, etc. but as far as believing in an omnipotent, creator God I suppose it's possible. I feel Enki or Lucifer probably had something do with it but it's just a theory, one of which I can not prove.

No man should have the right to judge another on belief , God has no opposition is exception to rule , humans ravage the planet nothing stops us ( in gods image )
God has no opposition is desisive force is no such thing as demons except for the human kind .Hell only exists as guilt
Is only subjective ideals of my own of course your free to believe anything .

 

[muhammad_isa]

Again, you have not answered my question. My question was what makes one more BELIEVABLE to you than the other

It's obvious .. man-made gods do not claim to be Divine.
They are cultural, regional and not particularly convincing. Most polytheists do not care about truth, they care more about culture.

Christianity and Islam are the world's greatest religions that although originating in the middle east, have spread worldwide. The concept of monotheism along with Holy Scriptures is probably the main reasons why people changed their beliefs.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

It's obvious .. man-made gods do not claim to be Divine.

Why does that make them less believable?

They are cultural, regional and not particularly convincing. Most polytheists do not care about truth, they care more about culture.

And why aren't they "particularly convincing"?

Christianity and Islam are the world's greatest religions that although originating in the middle east, have spread worldwide. The concept of monotheism along with Holy Scriptures is probably the main reasons why people changed their beliefs.

What does that have to do with the truth of any claims?

It's really quite simple. You are asserting that 'X' is more reasonable to believe than 'Y', and your only justification for this is "X claims to be X" while "Y claims to be Y". Let's say I invent two entities, one is called Cragolep, the single divine creator. The other is called Quaprolin, a powerful supernatural being. Which of these two beings is more likely to exist and on what do you base that judgement?

 

[Paleo]

No man should have the right to judge another on belief , God has no opposition is exception to rule , humans ravage the planet nothing stops us ( in gods image )
God has no opposition is desisive force is no such thing as demons except for the human kind .Hell only exists as guilt
Is only subjective ideals of my own of course your free to believe anything .

Well actually I don't view demons as negative entities but alrighty.

 

[muhammad_isa]

...
Let's say I invent two entities, one is called Cragolep, the single divine creator. The other is called Quaprolin, a powerful supernatural being. Which of these two beings is more likely to exist and on what do you base that judgement?

In this particular case, they have an equal chance, assuming that I didn't know that you'd made them up..
Why? Simply because I have insufficient information to process..

When it comes to Christianity and Islam, I have a LOT of information to process, and it's not sensible to think that mankind has created such an elaborate plot ..
Of course, if you don't like what the Bible & Qur'an is saying, you would have a good reason to claim that God is the same as other gods, and is all made up.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

In this particular case, they have an equal chance, assuming that I didn't know that you'd made them up..
Why? Simply because I have insufficient information to process..

If you have insufficient information, then you can't say they have an equal chance. As am matter of rational inquiry, surely positing the existence of a being that has powers is a less exceptional claim than positing the existence of a being that is all-powerful, therefore the former is more likely to exist than the latter. Is that not correct?

When it comes to Christianity and Islam, I have a LOT of information to process, and it's not sensible to think that mankind has created such an elaborate plot ..

And what information is that? What facts lend credibility to one claim over the other?

Of course, if you don't like what the Bible & Qur'an is saying, you would have a good reason to claim that God is the same as other gods, and is all made up.

I don't really care what the Bible or the Qur'an say. I care about whether or not their claims a true and how we go about determining it.

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

Well actually I don't view demons as negative entities but alrighty.

I try not to mess to much with negative , wouldn't want to be the next mass serial murderer on compassionate grounds , yes is a very dark side one must conquer

 

[muhammad_isa]

I don't really care what the Bible or the Qur'an say. I care about whether or not their claims a true and how we go about determining it.

A total contradiction .. on the one hand "you don't care what they say", and on the other hand you claim to be interested in truth.

You have been arguing that all gods are the same .. that's "your truth"

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

It's obvious .. man-made gods do not claim to be Divine.

Allah does.

They are cultural, regional and not particularly convincing.

Not to you, but that doesn't make it universally true.

Most polytheists do not care about truth,

If you're talking about objective, universal 'Truth' with a capital T, then you're right. But that's not a bad thing. Dogmatism has brought humanity nothing but trouble; hatred, division and a multitude of pointless wars. Monotheists killing one another over whose limited interpretation of 'Truth' is correct has to be the biggest continuous waste of life humanity has suffered.

they care more about culture.

Interest in a specific culture may be what sparks someone's interest in the Old Gods. But that's not the same thing.

Christianity and Islam are the world's greatest religions that although originating in the middle east, have spread worldwide. The concept of monotheism along with Holy Scriptures is probably the main reasons why people changed their beliefs.

I suspect that in most cases it's more to do with forced conversions, cultural genocides, religious repression & appropriation and indoctrination of the young.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

A total contradiction .. on the one hand "you don't care what they say", and on the other hand you claim to be interested in truth.

The fact that a particular text says something is not significant to me. I care about the truth of the claim itself and how we determine it. The source of the claim is immaterial.

You have been arguing that all gods are the same .. that's "your truth"

I have made no such argument. I am asking YOU how YOU make the distinction between Gods that are made up and Gods that aren't, and despite me asking you repeatedly - and you claiming to have "information" to that effect - you have yet to provide a single reason or method as to how you are capable of discerning fictional Gods from non-fictional ones.

Either you have a good reason for believing God X is most likely true and God Y is most likely untrue, or your beliefs are irrational and you simply accept God X on blind faith and deny God Y despite the fact it has just as much validity. Which is it?

 

[muhammad_isa]

I am asking YOU how YOU make the distinction between Gods that are made up and Gods that aren't, and despite me asking you repeatedly - and you claiming to have "information" to that effect - you have yet to provide a single reason or method as to how you are capable of discerning fictional Gods from non-fictional ones.

Good luck to you .. what I say seems to be going in one ear and out the other..

Oh .. and by the way .. there aren't any non-fictional gods