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Biden, Pence and Trump.... the tale of the classified documents

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Why were none charged with retaining classified documents?
The operative word is willfully retaining them. If they were willfully retaining them, then they might choose to charge them. But when they didn't know they were there, and the second they discovered them returned them, there is no crime. End of story.

From your article you linked to:

(a)​
Whoever, being an officer, employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States, and, by virtue of his office, employment, position, or contract, becomes possessed of documents or materials containing classified information of the United States, knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than five years, or both.​
This is so abundantly clear, it is ridiculous you are making an argument about simply having them, regardless of if they were intentional or not, when the statute is clear about intention, then you are just desperately wanting to believe something the law itself does not state.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
"Probably if Trump had co-operated like the other two, he wouldn't be in this mess"

Right. None would have been charged for retaining classified documents. Why?
I think I said long ago in my first response. And by other posters.

Probably because prosecutors realize that people mistakenly take documents home that they shouldn't have (Which is obviously true given that all three men had documents in their possession.) , so afford people some leeway and give them the benefit of the doubt that the documents were taken in error. Biden and Pence seemed to have proven them right, claimed they didn't know they had the documents, and gave them back right away. Trump didn't, plus he allegedly committed a slew of other crimes related to the documents and national security, and therefore had to be pursued with legal action so they could get the documents back.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
The operative word is willfully retaining them. If they were willfully retaining them, then they might choose to charge them. But when they didn't know they were there, and the second they discovered them returned them, there is no crime. End of story.

From your article you linked to:

(a)​
Whoever, being an officer, employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States, and, by virtue of his office, employment, position, or contract, becomes possessed of documents or materials containing classified information of the United States, knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than five years, or both.​
This is so abundantly clear, it is ridiculous you are making an argument about simply having them, regardless of if they were intentional or not, when the statute is clear about intention, then you are just desperately wanting to believe something the law itself does not state.
Yes! Thank you!
 

We Never Know

No Slack
The operative word is willfully retaining them. If they were willfully retaining them, then they might choose to charge them. But when they didn't know they were there, and the second they discovered them returned them, there is no crime. End of story.

From your article you linked to:

(a)​
Whoever, being an officer, employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States, and, by virtue of his office, employment, position, or contract, becomes possessed of documents or materials containing classified information of the United States, knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than five years, or both.​
This is so abundantly clear, it is ridiculous you are making an argument about simply having them, regardless of if they were intentional or not, when the statute is clear about intention, then you are just desperately wanting to believe something the law itself does not state.
And like I said a long time ago... With them seeing what Trump was going through their best defense is to claim "I didnt know"
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
And like I said a long time ago... With them seeing what Trump was going through their best defense is to claim "I didnt know"
There is no need to defend themselves against a crime, since there was no crime at all. If you read the statute you linked to, it clearly addresses that there has to be an intentional action, not just unknowingly possessing them. The wording is clear. It's not a crime, unless there is intention. Neither of them knew they had them. So there is no crime. Period.

The DOJ is choosing not to press charges, because they showed willingness to return them the moment they become aware of them. There is no need to "defend" themselves. No crime was committed. No crime would therefore be charged.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Neither of them claimed they knew.
Trump knew, and clearly claimed he knew he had them. He did not want to give them back. Neither Biden nor Pence were aware of them until they were discovered, and then they immediately acted to return them, as they knew it was against the law to intentionally retain them. I mean seriously, this is so clear cut, I don't understand why you are making an issue of this?
 

We Never Know

No Slack
Trump knew, and clearly claimed he knew he had them. He did not want to give them back. Neither Biden nor Pence were aware of them until they were discovered, and then they immediately acted to return them, as they knew it was against the law to intentionally retain them. I mean seriously, this is so clear cut, I don't understand why you are making an issue of this?
So you know for a 100% fact neither Biden or Pence knew they had any of those documents?

All I know is they claimed they didnt know.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
They all three commited the same offense of retaining classified documents(all were out of office). None were charged with said offense. To charge Trump they would also had to charge Biden and Pence.

Maybe, just maybe they didn't want to charge Biden and Pence, therefore they didn't charge Trump either.

18 U.S. Code § 1924 - Unauthorized removal and retention of classified documents or material
Maybe, just maybe, handling top secret documents in Washington is like taking a ball pen from your office supply elsewhere? Not strictly legal but nobody cares. Biden, Pence, Trump and NARA aren't the only ones doing it so nonchalantly? Wouldn't surprise me.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
Maybe, just maybe, handling top secret documents in Washington is like taking a ball pen from your office supply elsewhere? Not strictly legal but nobody cares. Biden, Pence, Trump and NARA aren't the only ones doing it so nonchalantly? Wouldn't surprise me.
I would guess many have taken some. Probably still have some.
 

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
Neither of them claimed they knew.
Yes, it is possible that Biden or Pence or both are lying. It is possible that the reason Trump is the only one being charged because Trump is just incredibly stupid. But if Trump insists on going on social media and every news show that will have him screaming that he kept the documents after he was asked for them back, he is doing it to himself.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
So you know for a 100% fact neither Biden or Pence knew they had any of those documents?

All I know is they claimed they didnt know.
I doubt they did, considering their responses when they found out. But if you wish to be a conspiracy theorist, which is what you are suggesting here, even if they were devious old Snidely Whiplash villains who deliberately snuck and hid these, just because they wanted to for some unknown reason.... there is not a single shred of evidence that they did act that way, so legally there is no case to be brought. There is no indication of criminal indent. None. End of story.

snidely whiplash.JPG

BTW, Trump is the actual villain here. And Dudley Do-Right (AKA Jack Smith) is here to save the day.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
I doubt they did, considering their responses when they found out. But if you wish to be a conspiracy theorist, which is what you are suggesting here, even if they were devious old Snidely Whiplash villains who deliberately snuck and hid these, just because they wanted to for some unknown reason.... there is not a single shred of evidence that they did act that way, so legally there is no case to be brought. There is no indication of criminal indent. None. End of story.

View attachment 79014

BTW, Trump is the actual villain here. And Dudley Do-Right (AKA Jack Smith) is here to save the day.
The funny thing is I don't like Trump and glad he has been charged.

Your biggest defense is "but Trump did this and has been charged with that"
 

We Never Know

No Slack
Yes, it is possible that Biden or Pence or both are lying. It is possible that the reason Trump is the only one being charged because Trump is just incredibly stupid. But if Trump insists on going on social media and every news show that will have him screaming that he kept the documents after he was asked for them back, he is doing it to himself.

"Trump is just incredibly stupid"

You left off narcissist, arogant, etc etc lol
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Yes, it is possible that Biden or Pence or both are lying. It is possible that the reason Trump is the only one being charged because Trump is just incredibly stupid. But if Trump insists on going on social media and every news show that will have him screaming that he kept the documents after he was asked for them back, he is doing it to himself.
Biden had them for decades. Trump could argue that it's not even a single decade yet and several to go before they were due to be returned.

;0]
 
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