Book of Mormon

[rabanes]

O.K...so it is personal???...I had a feeling...But I didnt want to assume anything.

I'm not sure I catch your drift. But it sound mildly accusatory.

You said that the links I provided seemed to you like I was "on a mission to sound an "alarm bell"..to "others"

Well, that's how it sounds to you, but it is a false impression. Hence, my remark about my personal feeling (i.e., "personally," as opposed to your personal feeling) that the links simply offer very fascinating articles. And.....uhm, it really goes no further than that.

So, I'm not really sure what you were trying to say....if anything.

RA

 

[rabanes]

Agreed. A quick google of his name reveals he's a Warren apologist and has even been criticized by other Evangelicals.

Sigh. That's a very bizarre rumor. You'll also find it stated on various pages that I am "soft" on Mormonism. hence, true anti-Mormons and some seriously twisted hate-mongers tihnk I am the next best thing to the anti-Christ (oh, they also happen to hate Rick Warren, so when i say he;s not that bad a guy, they tend to go a littel nuts).

You know for people who want others to go to the actual sources for truth, I find it odd no one is going to my own website to see what i believe or who I am. Odd, and a bit hypocritically, if you ask me.

From my website: "I am not now, nor have I ever been, a spokesperson (official or unofficial) for Rick Warren, Saddleback Church, or any affiliates of Saddleback Church, including Purpose Driven Ministries and pastors.com. Moroever, I have never been contracted or requested by Rick Warren, Saddleback, or any of its affiliates to publicly defend or discuss criticisms of Warren, his books, or his ministry. The comments contained in these articles are my own personal opinions expressed in response to Warren’s critics, and are based on my own investigation and research into Warren.

Thank you,

RA

 

[Watchmen]

Sigh. That's a very bizarre rumor. You'll also find it stated on various pages that I am "soft" on Mormonism. hence, true anti-Mormons and some seriously twisted hate-mongers tihnk I am the next best thing to the anti-Christ (oh, they also happen to hate Rick Warren, so when i say he;s not that bad a guy, they tend to go a littel nuts).

You know for people who want others to go to the actual sources for truth, I find it odd no one is going to my own website to see what i believe or who I am. Odd, and a bit hypocritically, if you ask me.

From my website: "I am not now, nor have I ever been, a spokesperson (official or unofficial) for Rick Warren, Saddleback Church, or any affiliates of Saddleback Church, including Purpose Driven Ministries and pastors.com. Moroever, I have never been contracted or requested by Rick Warren, Saddleback, or any of its affiliates to publicly defend or discuss criticisms of Warren, his books, or his ministry. The comments contained in these articles are my own personal opinions expressed in response to Warren’s critics, and are based on my own investigation and research into Warren.

Thank you,

RA

See bold above. That is EXACTLY our argument to you yet you reject it!!!

 

[DallasApple]

I'm not sure I catch your drift. But it sound mildly accusatory.

I am not accusing you of anything ..You have proclaimed it...

Love

Dallas

 

[doppelganger]

You know for people who want others to go to the actual sources for truth, I find it odd no one is going to my own website to see what i believe or who I am. Odd, and a bit hypocritically, if you ask me.

I did go to your website. :yes:

From my website: "I am not now, nor have I ever been, a spokesperson (official or unofficial) for Rick Warren, Saddleback Church, or any affiliates of Saddleback Church, including Purpose Driven Ministries and pastors.com. Moroever, I have never been contracted or requested by Rick Warren, Saddleback, or any of its affiliates to publicly defend or discuss criticisms of Warren, his books, or his ministry. The comments contained in these articles are my own personal opinions expressed in response to Warren’s critics, and are based on my own investigation and research into Warren.

That's a straw man. As you'll recall, my statement was that you are an "apologist" for Rick Warren. That does not imply that Warren sponsors or approves of you or what you write.

But thanks for starting to be a little bit honest.

So now . . . how about answering my questions, Richard?

 

[DallasApple]

[QUOTESo, I'm not really sure what you were trying to say....if anything.
][/QUOTE]

How can you be a religious journalist without understanding what Im trying to say..

Im pretty simple...Maybe thats why you cant understand me..

If anything...

Love

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

That does not imply that Warren sponsors or approves of you or what you write.

True...

Love

Dallas

 

[rabanes]

I did go to your website.

Then you know I am not an apologist for Warren. I am a religion journalist that deals with all kinds of issues -- from racism, to the New Age, to pop culture issues (like video games & young people), to Lent/Easter, to end-time obsession, etc. etc. etc.

I've written about Warren favorably, and so some people who hate Warren have spun that into me being an "apologist" for him just because I don't call him a heretic. They might as well call me an apologist for the Easter Bunny, Frodo Baggins, or thr Caldari race in the Eve Online MMO!

RA

 

[rabanes]

Why should anyone care what Mormons believe if they aren't themselves Mormons?

Some care, some don't. Others are just interested from an academic view. I guess it depends on who's answering. I'm sure a lot people couldn't care less. It was brought up in this forum, so basically, here I am -- for a bit. Not too long, I have other things to do. A mild distraction.

Do you think there's some dangerous heresy that they're secretly waiting to teach converts after the drag them in?

Nope.

If so, which one(s), why is it dangerous, and what do you care if a particular Mormon wants to believe it?

See above, and Mormns can believe anything they want. Go for it.

I am not accusing you of anything ..You have proclaimed it...

ROFL. You kill me. :yes:

See bold above. That is EXACTLY our argument to you yet you reject it!!!

Actually it's not, but meh, whatever. I've provided documentation that their is an issue within Mormonism that casts doubt on the trustworthiness of those who say they speak the truth about what they believe. Read the articles. I think in court, they'd call this a questionable witness. (I'm not a lawyer, but it's something like that).

RA

 

[DallasApple]

Then you know I am not an apologist for Warren. I am a religion journalist that deals with all kinds of issues -- from racism, to the New Age, to pop culture issues (like video games & young people), to Lent/Easter, to end-time obsession, etc. etc. etc.

I've written about Warren favorably, and so some people who hate Warren have spun that into me being an "apologist" for him just because I don't call him a heretic. They might as well call me an apologist for the Easter Bunny, Frodo Baggins, or thr Caldari race in the Eve Online MMO!

RA

Do you adhere to any religious faith?(in your personal life)

Love

Dallas

 

[Watchmen]

Actually it's not, but meh, whatever. I've provided documentation that their is an issue within Mormonism that casts doubt on the trustworthiness of those who say they speak the truth about what they believe. Read the articles. I think in court, they'd call this a questionable witness. (I'm not a lawyer, but it's something like that).

RA

You criticize us for not going to your website to get the "truth." Yet, you've failed to do the same for us.

 

[rabanes]

Do you adhere to any religious faith?(in your personal life)

I suppose closest would be evangelical, not fundamentalist. Fairly eclectic in my views regarding various aspects of the Christian faith. I've criticized fellow evangelicals before, as well as fundamentalists, where I thought there were problems. So, I try to be fair....some call that an equal-opportunity offender. LoL.

RA

 

[doppelganger]

Then you know I am not an apologist for Warren.

Actually, I know that you are. You have about thirty articles defending him against various critics. Now, those critics may be off base, but you spend a lot of time defending Rick Warren in response to criticisms. Which, let's be honest now, makes you an apologist for Rick Warren.

For the record, I don't dislike Warren. His books are shallow pablum, IMO, but I assume he is well-intentioned. Price's The Reason Driven Life is a much better read, BTW.

Also, for the record, I have no special affection for Mormonism (as any LDS member around here can attest), but I won't hesitate to call someone out on a lack of candor.

And I still think you're being coy, Richard.

 

[rabanes]

Actually, I know that you are. You have about thirty articles defending him against various critics. Now, those critics may be off base, but you spend a lot of time defending Rick Warren in response to criticisms. Which, let's be honest now, makes you an apologist for Rick Warren.

Compared to my body of work over the last 15 years, including major books (my primary source of work), those are scraps. Book-wise, you'll find, all I've put together is a thin 140-page book that sold modestly well, but was no big deal (that's in the face of 20 major books, some of which are very long).

For the record, I don't dislike Warren. His books are shallow pablum, IMO, but I assume he is well-intentioned. Price's The Reason Driven Life is a much better read, BTW.

Hmm, perhaps I will.

Also, for the record, I have no special affection for Mormonism (as any LDS member around here can attest), but I won't hesitate to call someone out on a lack of candor.

Noted. Sometimes what I have found some to be considered lack of candor, is actually someone else not fitting into pre-conceived slots. Just my 2 cents, for what it's worth.

And I still think you're being coy, Richard.

Not at all. I wish you could say that to my wife, and see her reaction.

RA

 

[DallasApple]

Noted. Sometimes what I have found some to be considered lack of candor, is actually someone else not fitting into pre-conceived slots. Just my 2 cents, for what it's worth.

No ...its called arrogance and pride..Its very unbecoming..

Just My 02...

Love

Dallas

 

[rabanes]

No ...its called arrogance and pride...Its very unbecoming.

Mighty serious accusations. Ah well. Everyone has an opinion. No hard feelings. Not quite sure where you get such heavy-handed judgments from, but whatever. That be cool.

RA

 

[doppelganger]

Compared to my body of work over the last 15 years, including major books (my primary source of work), those are scraps. Book-wise, you'll find, all I've put together is a thin 140-page book that sold modestly well, but was no big deal (that's in the face of 20 major books, some of which are very long).

Which brings me to my reason for suspicion. Having glanced through your articles and publications, what stands out is that you have a history of writing books and articles attacking a wide array of religious perspectives - with the notable exception of Evangelical Christianity - from Mormonism to Tolle, to "New Age" (a favorite topic of modern Evangelical heresiologists).

I've studied the Evangelical fundamentalist movement for more than two decades (starting from the inside while I was in my teens). When I see an article like this one about Tolle being a "heretic" (your word), and this one in which you purport to determine whether J.K. Rowling is a "Christian," I have good reason to suspect that you are not being honest when you say it doesn't matter to you what other people believe. And it is not purely out of academic or journalistic interest that you write about them.

Ironically, reading your stuff reminded me of listening to Mike Warnke many, many years ago, fretting about the dangers of reading fiction (other than that in the Bible, of course).

Again, I don't care what you believe. And if you have the usual Evangelical axe to grind with everyone who disagrees with your vision of "Christianity," that's your prerogative. But I do expect honesty.

 

[doppelganger]

I think in court, they'd call this a questionable witness. (I'm not a lawyer, but it's something like that).

The word you are looking for is "impeached."

 

[DallasApple]

YouTube - Harry Chapin sings FLOWERS ARE RED Live

Love

Dallas

 

[rabanes]

.... you have a history of writing books and articles attacking a wide array of religious perspectives - with the notable exception of Evangelical Christianity

Uhm, well, just a word of advice -- you might want to actually read books before making a statement like that. I have criticized Evangelical Chistians and whole segments of the Evangelical Christian Church in:

1. End-Time Visions: The Road to Armageddon?

2. American Militias: Rebellion, Racism, and Religion

3. Harry Potter, Narnia, and the Lord of the Rings

4. Rick Warren and the Purpose that Drives Him

Soooo, you know, just FYI.

I have good reason to suspect that you are not being honest when you say it doesn't matter to you what other people believe. And it is not purely out of academic or journalistic interest that you write about them.

You are attempting to understand me and my work from two articles? Impossible. Sorry.

Ironically, reading your stuff reminded me of listening to Mike Warnke many years ago, fret about the dangers of reading fiction (other than that in the Bible, of course).

Oh, I criticized him to. I suggest you read Warnke Ministries Hurt by Expose by your's truly.

But I do expect honesty.

Always. You got it.

RA

PS - HINT: Don't believe everything you read on the Internet.