Building Bridges to the Unity of Humanity

[TransmutingSoul]

It's clear to me that the religions of the world are not the answer to human strife and division. They fuel it. None of their gods or scriptures have answers. If man is to see any problem remedied, he will need to find a way to fix it himself. If we are to be "guided from our perplexities," we'll need to do so ourselves. Whereas theists look to scripture for answers and help, humanists look to themselves.

It is already foretold that people will take this stance about religion, the time is approaching (An act initiated under the Lesser Peace) when an effort on a global scale will try to do away with religion, stating what you have, that religions fuel human strife and devision.

This to me is a misunderstanding of our free will choices. I see God gives the requirements we must embrace, knowing that our animal will dominate our spiritual capacities, that this cycle will repeat.

This Biblical verse informed us of this thousands of years ago.

Isiah 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Baha'u'llah brought the Most Great Peace. Everything written by Baha'u'llah becomes the possibility of that Most Great Peace. It was rejected by all.tgose that say they Love that One Same God, so this verse becomes fulfilled, "I make peace, and create evil", it is inherent part of this creation that allows our free will choices. (I started the following OP to talk about this)

How God's Word Permeates the Mind of Humankind.

This OP is in response to this headline It’s mindblowing’: US meteorologists face death threats as hurricane conspiracies surge "Meteorologists tracking the advance of Hurricane Milton have been targeted by a deluge of conspiracy theories that they were controlling the weather, abuse and even...

www.religiousforums.com

I can only offer, anything humanity can do, that as you have said "he will need to find a way to fix it himself. If we are to be "guided from our perplexities," we'll need to do so ourselves.", all the way and guidance to do this, that we can draw from, has already been given.

Happy to discuss, but not in the light of religion verses no religion, rather in the light of finding the best answers.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

It's clear to me that the religions of the world are not the answer to human strife and division. They fuel it.

Yes, because no matter what Baha'is say now, religions in the ancient times were forced on the people. And their Gods were the good and true ones. And the Gods of those other people were evil and false.

Sects would fight sects. Each were taught to believe that they were the ones that were right.

Even now, even though Baha'is say they believe in all the other major religions, they really don't. They believe they have come to replace them with new, updated information from God. Unless someone believes that over what their old religion was telling them, then there's going to be an argument... which one is true and which one is false.

And Baha'is are telling them, all of them, that they are false.... That they have added in false beliefs and have never really understood their own Scriptures correctly. Because, if they did, they join the Baha'is. Because, supposedly, Baha'u'llah is the one promised by their religion. Making him the fulfillment and continuation of their religion.

Disagree. Look at the places where peace can be found. That peace was accomplished without gods or religions.

Yeah, religion is put in the background. If people want to live in peace together and work together, don't go pushing religion.

But people, in some religions, still do. And Baha'is are one of them. They are told they must go out and "teach" the word. They are told, if they can, to go "pioneering" to some other place and spread the word of truth to those people. At least they aren't as forceful as other religions that send out missionaries. But they do believe that their message is the "only" way to save us all from certain doom.

Unfortunately, for us, part of their message is that it's too late. We are heading for certain doom, because humanity has essentially rejected their prophet's message. But, they say, after the trials and tribulations, maybe even a nuclear war, we will all come to our sense and see that the Baha'i Faith is the truth. And the people of the world will all embrace the Baha'i way and start building a new world based on the teachings of Baha'u'llah.

So, don't want to twist your arm or anything, but... wouldn't it be better to join them now and avoid all the bad things that God has planned for us?

And I'd say, "Yeah" that would be better... If I thought that stuff was true. But I don't see how their peace plan can work. And then add in all their religious beliefs? There's some of those things I don't believe in either. So, what am I supposed to do?

Ah, but that's God for you. Isn't it just wonderful how God does things.

 

[CG Didymus]

It is already foretold that people will take this stance about religion, the time is approaching (An act initiated under the Lesser Peace) when an effort on a global scale will try to do away with religion, stating what you have, that religions fuel human strife and devision.

What is the quote that you're getting that from?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You just need to look at the world and history to see what ideologies and activities have promoted peace and unity. Who is actually pushing the world in that direction? Where did the idea of modern democracies with guaranteed rights come from? Where did the idea that slavery should be abolished come from? Who is promoting equality and acceptance of all law-abiding people?

The progression all come from our true essence, the Spirit behind creation. They come from the mind connected to that Spirit, even if people do not understand the source of their thoughts. That is how we bring the unknown to the known, it is already written, we just borrow from it in the few insignificant years we have in a eternal timeless existence.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So, don't want to twist your arm or anything, but... wouldn't it be better to join them now and avoid all the bad things that God has planned for us?

I would offer no Baha'i is here to do that at all. It is 100% yours and everyone's, including the Baha'i's, free will choice. We come to provide the information Baha'u'llah revealed which becomes the requirements for peace.

God planned all the good things for us, so use your choice wisely, the choice that everyone in every faith has to make every day. Do we choose morals and virtues, or do we choose not to practice them.

Regards Tony

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

It is already foretold that ...

You should know by now that atheists are not interested in unfalsifiable religious beliefs. Your scriptures are not authoritative to me. Try another answer.

Is there any chance of you ever understanding and adapting to that, or will you just continue citing that which you have been told and should by now know is meaningless to many of those to whom you cite them?

If so, let me reciprocate with what is surely meaningless verbiage to you and telepathically petition Raël to focus the yin and yang of his inner eye on your chakra and astrally project your aura to the ninth cloud of Kolob.

You're welcome!

The progression all come from our true essence, the Spirit behind creation.

Whatever progress man has made, man has made it - not ghosts or spirits.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What is the quote that you're getting that from?

A vast combination of quotes and a logical thought about the timing of the quotes. It would be a large reply, so short version.

This was the first quote given that I draw from.

"Once Varqa asked Baha'u'llah, "How will the Cause of God be universally adopted by mankind?" Baha'u'llah said that first, the nations of the world would arm themselves with infernal engines of war, and when fully armed would attack each other like bloodthirsty beasts. As a result, there would be enormous bloodshed throughout the world. Then the wise men from all nations would gather together to investigate the cause of such bloodshed. They would come to the conclusion that prejudices were the cause, a major form being religous prejudice. They would therefore try to eliminate religion so as to eliminate prejudice. Later they would realize that man cannot live without religion. Then they would study the teachings of all religions to see which of the religions conformed to the prevailing conditions of the time. It is then that the Cause of God would become universal. "Revelation of Baha'u'llah, vol. 4, p.56

Then I draw on Abdul'baha and Shoghi Effendi's explanations of Baha’u’llah's writings as to how the Lesser Peace will come about, which paints a lot of detail into that short statement made by Baha'u'llah. (Not quoting these)

The wise of the world have twice got together, but the League of Nations and the United Nations did not try to do away with religion, this is a whole new trend, just look at RF and you will get a vision of the increasing trend.

Abdul'baha foretold of the 2nd world war, Shoghi Effendi after the 2nd World War foretold of the 3rd global conflict also involving civil conflicts. This 3rd conflict is the 12th hour and will result in the Lesser Peace, which I see is when the wise people of the earth will gather to initiate the Lesser Peace.

There are writings that tell us when the Faith emerges from Obscurity, when orthodoxy of previous faiths see that what is written is drawing people away from their pulpits, that the persecution will begin for the Baha'i in the West, the Baha'i in the East have had that from day One. This may assist those wise people in making a decision to do away with religion.

So as you can see, I see the Lesser Peace, the rule of men, will commence from the ruins of the current conflicts, the reults we are yet to wirness, and will unfold over centuries. It may be quite a few centuries before the Message of Baha’u’llah is finally embraced by the Majority. (We are told of an event that will cause the limbs of mankind to quake and then and only then will the Divine banner be unfolded. We are told that will coincide with the Lesser Peace, so this aspect not so clear as yet).

"...And when the appointed hour is come, there shall suddenly appear that which shall cause the limbs of mankind to quake. Then, and only then, will the Divine Standard be unfurled, and the Nightingale of Paradise warble its melody." Bahá’u’lláh: Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 118

Unfurling a banner is not raising it, so I do see what that can happen at the time of the Leaser Peace, as it means humanity has to change its ways and the Message of Baha’u’llah is the only guide. (People will freely choose that advice, most likely not knowing the source)

All I can do, is be a voice for its promotion now, as God has the major plan already mapped.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You should know by now that atheists are not interested in unfalsifiable religious beliefs. Your scriptures are not authoritative to me. Try another answer.

Try another path in your frames of references. I will never change for an athiest mindset, which is the epitome of death.

Love and peace can bind us, but no person or group of people can take God from humanity. We are already dead without God.

Is that clear!

Regards Tony

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I will never change for an athiest mindset, which is the epitome of death.

Of course you will never change. You didn't need to report that.

You've been captured by dogma, are now dependent on it, and cling to it as a lifeline. You are no longer capable of coping without it.

I escaped all of that. I have no gods or religion yet I am thriving. You can't account for that. That shouldn't be if your claims about atheism being death above are correct.

And speaking of death, exactly how are you more than an automaton mindlessly regurgitating ineffectual dogma?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Of course you will never change. You didn't need to report that.

You've been captured by dogma, are now dependent on it, and cling to it as a lifeline. You are no longer capable of coping without it.

I escaped all of that. I have no gods or religion yet I am thriving. You can't account for that. That shouldn't be if your claims about atheism being death above are correct.

And speaking of death, exactly how are you more than an automaton mindlessly regurgitating ineffectual dogma?

Existing in this matrix is relative to our minds choices. It is but a mere illusion.

Ones choices makes them more or less. This advice worthy of meditation.

Verily I say, the world is like the vapor in a desert, which the thirsty dreameth to be water and striveth after it with all his might, until when he cometh unto it, he findeth it to be mere illusion. It may, moreover, be likened unto the lifeless image of the beloved whom the lover hath sought and found, in the end, after long search and to his utmost regret, to be such as cannot "fatten nor appease his hunger.

Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 328-329

Know ye that the world is even as a mirage rising over the sands, that the thirsty mistaketh for water. The wine of this world is but a vapour in the desert, its pity and compassion but toil and trouble, the repose it proffereth only weariness and sorrow.

‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Selections from the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 186

Regards Tony

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Existing in this matrix is relative to our minds choices. It is but a mere illusion. Ones choices makes them more or less. This advice worthy of meditation.

I'm not looking for life advice, especially from somebody in a religious cocoon. I've been there, and managed to tunnel out. You haven't.

Verily I say, the world is like the vapor in a desert, which the thirsty dreameth to be water and striveth after it with all his might, until when he cometh unto it, he findeth it to be mere illusion. It may, moreover, be likened unto the lifeless image of the beloved whom the lover hath sought and found, in the end, after long search and to his utmost regret, to be such as cannot "fatten nor appease his hunger.

Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 328-329

Know ye that the world is even as a mirage rising over the sands, that the thirsty mistaketh for water. The wine of this world is but a vapour in the desert, its pity and compassion but toil and trouble, the repose it proffereth only weariness and sorrow.

‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Selections from the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 186

Oh, look! More scripture! More unsolicited advice from the past from people who I have no interest in emulating and whose lives don't appeal to me.

What else do you have? How about something I can use?

I have some good advice for you. You don't need to thank me:

• Don't sweat the petty stuff, and don't pet the sweaty stuff.
• Don't criticize a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes. Why? Because if he gets miffed at you, he's a mile away and barefoot.
• Never try to teach a pig to sing. It's a waste of your time and just annoys the pig.

 

[CG Didymus]

I would offer no Baha'i is here to do that at all. It is 100% yours and everyone's, including the Baha'i's, free will choice. We come to provide the information Baha'u'llah revealed which becomes the requirements for peace.

God planned all the good things for us, so use your choice wisely, the choice that everyone in every faith has to make every day. Do we choose morals and virtues, or do we choose not to practice them.

Regards Tony

But the why things are worded and explained, it is God that is doing it. Like with some Christian sects, "Hey, it's not me saying it... It is God. You reject his message and you are choosing hell." And what else has God done? Because the world has gone astray, it was necessary for God to flood the world, destroy Sodom and Gomorrah and to let the Romans destroy Jerusalem.

It's how religions scare people into believing.

And that's not much different with the Baha'i Faith. "You guys had your chance. Now, instead of the Most Great Peace, you're going to have to suffer through wars, disasters and plagues until the world sees the light... That the only way to peace... Is by embracing the counsels of the Baha'i prophet. The world choose wrong before. Don't make the same wrong choice again."

And are people made to feel guilty if they don't give to the fund? Or don't go to feast? Or don't go teach the Faith? Or go pioneering? Isn't there a plea for Baha'is to leave the cities and go out and spread the Faith?

And God planned all the "good" things for us? Really? It sure seems like all people have to go through a lot of bad stuff. And all religions have a different way to explain why. Karma, sin and Satan... What's the Baha'i explanation? God is testing you?

I hope it's more than that, because some people get a "test" and die. And some times it's young kids. Like being kid being killed in a car crash... Or a kid going to school in the U.S. and getting shot... Or a kid in Gaza or Israel getting blown up... Or a kid being born with or developing some horrible disease. What was the plan?

But now back to peace... He revealed a plan that I keep asking for the details... How is it going to work? Fallible leaders appointing representatives to elect fallible people to serve on a world tribunal that makes binding decisions? And is given the power to enforce them?

Then trusting each nation to disarm themselves? Who's going to double check to make sure they did and aren't hiding some missiles and guns? And what about battleships and submarines and Jet fighters and bombers? To the scrap heap?

I doubt very much that the U.S. will be onboard unless they have the power to make sure things go their way. But what about some small, powerless nation? They should disarm and trust the big, powerful nations won't exploit them? Who's going to watch out for them? The bigger nations?

We here in the U.S. are divided on who to trust and listen to in our government. There's places in the nearby cities that I won't go into at night, and some places, even in the day.

We've got the things in place that are supposed to make things run peaceably, and they don't. We've got some corrupt leaders. There's problem with corrupt police. Can we trust the people running the economy? No.

So, how would the Baha'i Faith fix us? Where are you going to find honest and selfless leaders from a bunch of fallible people?

Put the Baha'i Faith in charge? As if your leaders are beyond being corrupt. But... let's pretend they're perfect. What next? Adopt the laws of God? The Baha'i laws?

So, first off, disarm all the people? Are Baha'is disarmed in the U.S. right now? Then what? Get rid of the extremes of wealth and poverty? But what about all those greedy rich people? How you going to get them to do that? Then what? Shut down all the beer, wine and hard liquor factories? Shut down all the drug dealers? Shut down Las Vegas and online gambling? Shut down online porn?

Where does it end? Is that why God thinks it's better just to blow it all up and start again afresh with the survivors?

Wouldn't it have been easier if God made a higher quality people and creation from the beginning? Why expect a faulty product to perform any better than it has in the past?

 

[CG Didymus]

A vast combination of quotes and a logical thought about the timing of the quotes. It would be a large reply, so short version.

This was the first quote given that I draw from.

"Once Varqa asked Baha'u'llah, "How will the Cause of God be universally adopted by mankind?" Baha'u'llah said that first, the nations of the world would arm themselves with infernal engines of war, and when fully armed would attack each other like bloodthirsty beasts. As a result, there would be enormous bloodshed throughout the world. Then the wise men from all nations would gather together to investigate the cause of such bloodshed. They would come to the conclusion that prejudices were the cause, a major form being religous prejudice. They would therefore try to eliminate religion so as to eliminate prejudice. Later they would realize that man cannot live without religion. Then they would study the teachings of all religions to see which of the religions conformed to the prevailing conditions of the time. It is then that the Cause of God would become universal. "Revelation of Baha'u'llah, vol. 4, p.56

Then I draw on Abdul'baha and Shoghi Effendi's explanations of Baha’u’llah's writings as to how the Lesser Peace will come about, which paints a lot of detail into that short statement made by Baha'u'llah. (Not quoting these)

The wise of the world have twice got together, but the League of Nations and the United Nations did not try to do away with religion, this is a whole new trend, just look at RF and you will get a vision of the increasing trend.

Abdul'baha foretold of the 2nd world war, Shoghi Effendi after the 2nd World War foretold of the 3rd global conflict also involving civil conflicts. This 3rd conflict is the 12th hour and will result in the Lesser Peace, which I see is when the wise people of the earth will gather to initiate the Lesser Peace.

There are writings that tell us when the Faith emerges from Obscurity, when orthodoxy of previous faiths see that what is written is drawing people away from their pulpits, that the persecution will begin for the Baha'i in the West, the Baha'i in the East have had that from day One. This may assist those wise people in making a decision to do away with religion.

So as you can see, I see the Lesser Peace, the rule of men, will commence from the ruins of the current conflicts, the reults we are yet to wirness, and will unfold over centuries. It may be quite a few centuries before the Message of Baha’u’llah is finally embraced by the Majority. (We are told of an event that will cause the limbs of mankind to quake and then and only then will the Divine banner be unfolded. We are told that will coincide with the Lesser Peace, so this aspect not so clear as yet).

"...And when the appointed hour is come, there shall suddenly appear that which shall cause the limbs of mankind to quake. Then, and only then, will the Divine Standard be unfurled, and the Nightingale of Paradise warble its melody." Bahá’u’lláh: Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 118

Unfurling a banner is not raising it, so I do see what that can happen at the time of the Leaser Peace, as it means humanity has to change its ways and the Message of Baha’u’llah is the only guide. (People will freely choose that advice, most likely not knowing the source)

All I can do, is be a voice for its promotion now, as God has the major plan already mapped.

Regards Tony

But that sounds a lot like what some Christians believe will happen before Jesus comes back.

That's why I've asked Baha'is for any prophesies, from any religion, that has the "promised one" come and get rejected, imprisoned and then die... and things get worse.

The Christian version has all the evil kings and rulers gather around Israel... ready to attack. Then Jesus comes and kills them all, and establishes God's kingdom on Earth.

I don't know of anywhere it has Jesus being rejected again. And this time die. But... all the other "Promised Ones"? Kalki... Maitreya... Anybody? Who is predicted to come in the end times and doesn't fix things? But gets rejected?

 

[CG Didymus]

Try another path in your frames of references. I will never change for an athiest mindset, which is the epitome of death.

Again, not that it's the Baha'is fault, the it was a reaction to bad religion, with corrupt leaders that led people to reject religion and their Gods.

And, even like the Baha'i Faith says, that religion and science must go hand and hand. Religion without science is superstition. And that's what most all religions look like... a bunch of superstitious beliefs. And, if God is real, then it's too bac that he got rejected too. But the problem is... How do you prove God is real? Then which God?

Everybody had their own Gods. And I'll bet that most Baha'is reject those Gods, and believe them to be nothing more than myths. So, why the supposed "real" God? The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? Is he real of a myth?

Let's see... Created the world and the universe less than 10,000 years ago. Put a tree in the garden that Adam and Eve ate from... with Eve having been conned by a talking serpent. People living for almost 1000 years. There were giants in the land, the Nephilim. God had a couple of all the animals go to where Noah was building a boat, get on it and, along with Noah and his family, survive a world wide flood.

Jumping ahead... God parted the seas for Moses and his people, but closed them for the Egyptians. He sent fire and brimstone to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah. He turned Lot's wife into a pillar of salt. Oh, and I almost forgot my favorite one. God turned Moses' staff into a snake and it ate the snake that used to be the Pharaoh's staff. God had a donkey talk. God sent a big fish to swallow Jonah. The uncut hair of Samson is what gave him his strength.

Moving on to the NT... A virgin birth. A star that moved across the sky guiding the Magi. Walking on water. Demons being cast out. Lazarus being brought back to life. God speaks from heaven. People in Jerusalem coming out of their graves and walking around town. Then for the grand finale.... Jesus rises from the dead and ascends into the sky.

Sure sounds like myth and superstitions to me. Why make it seem like Atheists are unjustified in their skepticism?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You've been captured by dogma, are now dependent on it, and cling to it as a lifeline. You are no longer capable of coping without it.

You have absolutely no idea at all of anything about me.

Sure sounds like myth and superstitions to me. Why make it seem like Atheists are unjustified in their skepticism?

Why support such a shallow look at our spiritual selves? Such a view is illogical, it is an attempt of denying our true self with self based justifications, thinking science will suppprt them.

It is a movement that puts man's choices before the most great wisdom. It is a movement that will not be the answer r9 humanity’s current perplexities.

Yhen on thenother hand, all those that deny God exists, but then practice the virtues and morals that God has brought to us, then that is common ground we can all work together with.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Where does it end? Is that why God thinks it's better just to blow it all up and start again afresh with the survivors?

It is not God's choices CG. God allows our choices. We must take ownership of them.

God knows what we will do and the plan is inclusive of our poor choices.

Wouldn't it have been easier if God made a higher quality people and creation from the beginning? Why expect a faulty product to perform any better than it has in the past?

This creation is perfect for it's given purpose.

To help us know and Love God, without compulsion, of our own free will.

Regards Tony

 

[ChatwithGod]

Building bridges starts with understanding and respect. Ephesians 4:32 says, "Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you." Focus on empathy and listening. James 1:19 teaches us to be quick to listen and slow to speak.

 

[CG Didymus]

Sure sounds like myth and superstitions to me. Why make it seem like Atheists are unjustified in their skepticism?

Why support such a shallow look at our spiritual selves?

So, if the Baha'i Faith didn't tell you to take those things symbolically and not literally, wouldn't you agree that they sound like pure made up myth? And because of science, some of those beliefs based on what the Bible says are shown to be untrue. And I'll bet the Baha'is agree.

Like the Earth being older than 10,000 or so years? Like people living to be hundreds of years old back a few thousand years ago? That there was a world wide flood about 4 or 5 thousand years ago. And that Noah was hundreds of years old when he built the boat? And since Baha'is believe in a type of evolution, then they can't believe the Creation story.

God knows what we will do and the plan is inclusive of our poor choices.

In the not so distant past, making the choice to follow one's religion was the poor choice. And it still can be. Like if the Baha'i Faith is true, then the poor choice would be to believe in one of the old religions. Like all those Christians that believe that the Baha'i Faith is a false religion. Where do they get that from? I think a lot has to do with what it teaches in the NT. When it says Satan will try to deceive them and tell them that Christ has returned, they believe it and figure that the Baha'i Faith is one of those false religions with a false Christ trying to trick them into believing.

So, if the Baha'i Faith happens to be true, who is closer to that truth? Those Christians that believe the Bible very literally? Or Atheists that reject religions that hold superstitious beliefs? I think it's the Atheists. How about you?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So, if the Baha'i Faith happens to be true, who is closer to that truth? Those Christians that believe the Bible very literally? Or Atheists that reject religions that hold superstitious beliefs? I think it's the Atheists. How about you?

We all get closer to the source of Good by knowing we have to be more than our animal based selfish instincts, we have to be more virtue and moral based, more giving and forgiving.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

We all get closer to the source of Good by knowing we have to be more than our animal based selfish instincts, we have to be more virtue and moral based, more giving and forgiving.

Regards Tony

But are the people that get elected to this World Tribunal really going to be all that virtuous? If they are in the least bit greedy or hungry for power or have any bad qualities, how's the decisions made by the World Tribunal going to be fair and just?