Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
First, it helps me understand what you believe, and second, it enables me to interact more effectively with others who hold similar beliefs.
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By the way -- if you claim to be a Christian...
- Thread starter YoursTrue
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First, it helps me understand what you believe, and second, it enables me to interact more effectively with others who hold similar beliefs.
Actually, what you’ve been taught about the Bible, is mostly what Christendom has taught.
And unfortunately that has been influenced by pagan Greek philosophy.
Really, if Christendom had the Truth as taught from God’s Word, that would mean they had God’s spirit — you need God’s spirit to understand it (Luke 10:21) — but they have been part & parcel with the world, even joining in its wars, since it began in the 4th Cent.! In other words, they’ve been disobedient to Christ. — Matthew 7:23; John 15:14
I’ve shown you many times where the Bible says the soul dies, but you are not willing to accept it.
Which is your choice, I guess…. But then, do not say you know what the Bible teaches. Why would that be important for you to say that, since it’s not the book you support? Since it has no bearing on your beliefs?
Have a good day.
@walt is one of my brothers.
What we teach is found at JW.org
Take care.
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You mean in the Greek Septuagint, right?
(Because the original Ecclesiastes wasn’t written in Greek.)
Because He owns it.
Another relevant Scripture, which I have used with you before in discussing death, is Psalm 146:3,4:
When a person dies, “his spirit goes out, he returns to the ground…”
Did you forget?
You can’t use only 1 Scripture to support a doctrine, while ignoring other relevant passages.
Another is Ecclesiastes 3:19,20….
Referring to animals and humans, “…they all have the same spirit.”
How can you correlate all these Scriptures - including Eccl.12:7 - and understand them where they all make sense?
(I think @YoursTrue doesn’t believe what she writes will affect you, since you really don’t accept the Bible’s statements. If I’m wrong, YoursTrue, let me know.)
It seems like we aren’t getting anywhere. Which equals wasting time & effort.
We pray to Jehovah about it, and leave our endeavors in His hands.
Goodnight.
She has answers, believe me.
I’ll answer them later.
(Remember my previous post to you RE: Ecc12:7… ‘Because Jehovah owns it.”)
It’s too late for me to be coherent now, lol!
Without taking sides between you and @Trailblazer, I note that the NRSVue (the latest version of the good ol' RSV) translates Ecclesiastes 12.7 as ─
7 and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the breath returns to God who gave it.
My point is that the Hebrew of the original, rûaḥ, according to a crib I consulted, can mean ─
wind, breath, mind, spirit
─ breath
─ ─ wind
─ ─ ─ of heaven
─ ─ ─ quarter (of wind), side
─ ─ ─ breath of air
─ ─ ─ air, gas
─ ─ ─ vain, empty thing
─ ─ spirit (as that which breathes quickly in animation or agitation)
─ ─ ─ spirit, animation, vivacity, vigour
─ ─ ─ courage
─ ─ ─ temper, anger
─ ─ ─ impatience, patience
─ ─ ─ spirit, disposition (as troubled, bitter, discontented)
─ ─ ─ disposition (of various kinds), unaccountable or uncontrollable impulse
─ ─ ─ prophetic spirit
─ ─ spirit (of the living, breathing being in man and animals)
─ ─ ─ as gift, preserved by God, God's spirit, departing at death, disembodied being
─ ─ spirit (as seat of emotion)
─ ─ ─ desire
─ ─ ─ sorrow, trouble
─ ─ spirit
─ ─ ─ as seat or organ of mental acts
─ ─ ─ rarely of the will
─ ─ ─ as seat especially of moral character
─ ─ Spirit of God, the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son
─ ─ ─ as inspiring ecstatic state of prophecy
─ ─ ─ as impelling prophet to utter instruction or warning
─ ─ ─ imparting warlike energy and executive and administrative power
─ ─ ─ as endowing men with various gifts
─ ─ ─ as energy of life
─ ─ ─ as manifest in the Shekinah glory
─ ─ ─ (never referred to as a depersonalised force)
─ breath
─ ─ wind
─ ─ ─ of heaven
─ ─ ─ quarter (of wind), side
─ ─ ─ breath of air
─ ─ ─ air, gas
─ ─ ─ vain, empty thing
─ ─ spirit (as that which breathes quickly in animation or agitation)
─ ─ ─ spirit, animation, vivacity, vigour
─ ─ ─ courage
─ ─ ─ temper, anger
─ ─ ─ impatience, patience
─ ─ ─ spirit, disposition (as troubled, bitter, discontented)
─ ─ ─ disposition (of various kinds), unaccountable or uncontrollable impulse
─ ─ ─ prophetic spirit
─ ─ spirit (of the living, breathing being in man and animals)
─ ─ ─ as gift, preserved by God, God's spirit, departing at death, disembodied being
─ ─ spirit (as seat of emotion)
─ ─ ─ desire
─ ─ ─ sorrow, trouble
─ ─ spirit
─ ─ ─ as seat or organ of mental acts
─ ─ ─ rarely of the will
─ ─ ─ as seat especially of moral character
─ ─ Spirit of God, the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son
─ ─ ─ as inspiring ecstatic state of prophecy
─ ─ ─ as impelling prophet to utter instruction or warning
─ ─ ─ imparting warlike energy and executive and administrative power
─ ─ ─ as endowing men with various gifts
─ ─ ─ as energy of life
─ ─ ─ as manifest in the Shekinah glory
─ ─ ─ (never referred to as a depersonalised force)
So if you're on the translating team, you may well have difficulty in deciding which best represents the intention of the Hebrew text; and you may have to resort to theology (though theologically the rûaḥ in the Tanakh can never be the "third person of the Trinity" mentioned above, the Trinity being an entirely Christian invention not adopted until the 4th century CE).
In other words, the choice of the right word is not straightforward, and the reader must trust the learning of the translators while at the same time understanding the problems.
walt
Jesus is King & Mighty God Isa.9:6-7; Lk.1:32-33
Is one of the definitions of this word, "immortal soul" or "soul" ?
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Just read the definitions again and make a decision,
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Then there is no use asking by you or to you what anything means in the Bible. Thank you very much for clarifying.
As far as your definition of shifting, sorry but your definitions are not the way it is, especially since you don't believe or care what the Bible says. Thank you so much for mentioning that. Talk with the dead -- not talk with the dead -- as an old song goes -- "Anything Goes..." Have a nice day as time moves along...
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Thank you very, very much for that, blu 2. Much appreciated and I also appreciate the info the RSV and NRSV.
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
I'm interested in knowing what Christians think about the Bible because understanding this has helped me support the ones who wish to break free from their Christian indoctrination and renounce Christianity. I've supported many former Christians in their efforts to break away from Christianity. I also used this information to convert other Christians (including Jehovah's Witnesses) to evangelical Christianity when I was an evangelist and street preacher. As a former Christian, evangelist, and street preacher, I am very well versed in the Bible. In fact, my comprehensive studies of the Bible (along with Christian theology) are what led me to renounce my belief in God, Jesus, and the Bible. I essentially studied my way out of believing and deconverted. I attribute my deconversion solely to the fact that I read and studied the Bible without the confirmation bias of my indoctrination. It was a genuine reexamination of all my Christian beliefs. When I was a devout Christian, I sincerely believed that diligently reading and studying the Bible on a daily basis would deepen my faith, but it accomplished the exact opposite. It led to my deconversion. It was also one of the best decisions I've ever made for myself. And now that I'm a Wiccan and Druid, I'm far happier than I ever was before as a Christian. I finally have inner peace. My only regret is that I wish I had done this years ago.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
There is no use asking me, but not for the reasons you gave.
There is no use because you have no interest in what I believe that the Bible means.
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
That part of your post is true.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
I have never interacted with any deity during my lifetime, despite my countless attempts to connect and interact with the Abrahamic God during the forty years I genuinely believed in him. I was a devout Christian for thirty years and had believed in him for ten years before becoming a Christian at the age of seventeen, but I have never seen, interacted with, or felt his presence. I knew other Christians who claimed they felt his presence in their lives, but I never felt it, and it wasn't for a lack of trying either. Believing in him by faith never worked out for me, nor did all the years of dedicated and earnest prayer to him. The "fake it 'til you make it" never worked out for me either. I learned the hard way as a devout Christian that there is no such thing as a personal relationship with God or Jesus. I felt nothing but persistent despair and hopelessness during the long four decades that I genuinely believed in them.
I'm not exaggerating when I say that it was a living nightmare for me. I deconverted when I was forty-seven. As a result of this experience, I no longer accept the existence of deities based on faith. Having said that, I'm not willing to dismiss the existence of any deities because I believe in supernatural phenomena, and I acknowledge that their existence could be a possibility in this regard. However, I can honestly say that I believe that spirits exist, but I don't just claim to believe without providing what I consider to be sufficient evidence to substantiate my personal beliefs in supernatural phenomena.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Maybe one problem is that Christians told you that you could interact with God so you had that expectation, yet it is impossible to interact with God, so that why you could not do so. It was not because God abandoned you, it was because you had a false expectations owing to the false teachings of Christianity. Whatever those Christians 'believed' that they were interacting with was not God because God does not interact with anyone.
“Immeasurably exalted is He above the strivings of human mind to grasp His Essence, or of human tongue to describe His mystery. No tie of direct intercourse can ever bind Him to the things He hath created, nor can the most abstruse and most remote allusions of His creatures do justice to His being. Through His world-pervading Will He hath brought into being all created things. He is and hath ever been veiled in the ancient eternity of His own exalted and indivisible Essence, and will everlastingly continue to remain concealed in His inaccessible majesty and glory. All that is in heaven and all that is in the earth have come to exist at His bidding, and by His Will all have stepped out of utter nothingness into the realm of being. How can, therefore, the creature which the Word of God hath fashioned comprehend the nature of Him Who is the Ancient of Days?”
The only way we can know anything about God is through His Messengers, and even they do not 'interact' with God, they only hear God's voice speaking to them through the Holy Spirit.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Your messenger imo has deluded himself and you. Sad but I think it's true. We're finished --
funny though you want ME to answer -- even though you are suire, are you, that Jesus is not God but you want to discuss the Bible with others so what? You can lead them to your false religious beliefs? We are fini. Bye for now. Ask someone maybe who talks to the dead for answers. maybe you think the dead know...
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Interaction is not quite like what's considered interaction on these boards or in a conversation among humans. But you do interact with spirits who claim they interact with the dead? Maybe I have it wrong about you -- maybe I don't remember correctly. You don't have to clarify if you don't want to, but as I said, these boards have proved very, very interesting and informative for me.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
P.S. @Sgt. Pepper I am sure there are some here who will understand -- but the Bible speaks of a woman who is a whore -- that is in Revelation -- and it is referring in part to false religion. I'm sorry you got hurt and dismayed through your experiences about God. While I have questions and wonderment, I have found God and I am very happy about that. I did not always believe in God and did what the Bible says God says not to do. (Just a brief introduction...) But as the song "Amazing Grace" goes -- (one of my all time favorites) - I once was blind but now I see! I will thank the God I pray to for that --