By the way -- if you claim to be a Christian...

[walt]

It isn't relevant to me either.

If it isn't relevant to you either, why would I show you the scriptures I use for understanding Bible subjects?

 

[Trailblazer]

If you want to find out more, I suggest you pray for help.

I don't want to find out more about the Bible because I already know enough and it is not my holy book.

Now if you care what the Bible says, that's another perspective. But since you said you don't care and constantly shift to something like hidden words, it's like discussing any other subject. If a person doesn't care what another says, then there really is no discussion.

I can care what others think the Bible means and discuss it, just like atheists discuss the Bible with Christians.

I did not 'shift' to the Hidden Words, I just posted a Hidden Word which expressed a sentiment that @walt was expressing.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

If it isn't relevant to you either, why would I show you the scriptures I use for understanding Bible subjects?

First, it helps me understand what you believe, and second, it enables me to interact more effectively with others who hold similar beliefs.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I don't want to find out more about the Bible because I already know enough…

Actually, what you’ve been taught about the Bible, is mostly what Christendom has taught.

And unfortunately that has been influenced by pagan Greek philosophy.

Really, if Christendom had the Truth as taught from God’s Word, that would mean they had God’s spirit — you need God’s spirit to understand it (Luke 10:21) — but they have been part & parcel with the world, even joining in its wars, since it began in the 4th Cent.! In other words, they’ve been disobedient to Christ. — Matthew 7:23; John 15:14

I’ve shown you many times where the Bible says the soul dies, but you are not willing to accept it.

Which is your choice, I guess…. But then, do not say you know what the Bible teaches. Why would that be important for you to say that, since it’s not the book you support? Since it has no bearing on your beliefs?

Have a good day.

First, it helps me understand what you believe….

@walt is one of my brothers.

What we teach is found at JW.org

Take care.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

This is the same exact Greek word that is used at Ecclesiastes 12:7, wind, breath, spirit. πνεῦμα

You mean in the Greek Septuagint, right?
(Because the original Ecclesiastes wasn’t written in Greek.)

 

[Hockeycowboy]

What do you believe "and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it" means?

Because He owns it.

Another relevant Scripture, which I have used with you before in discussing death, is Psalm 146:3,4:
When a person dies, “his spirit goes out, he returns to the ground…”

Did you forget?

You can’t use only 1 Scripture to support a doctrine, while ignoring other relevant passages.

Another is Ecclesiastes 3:19,20….
Referring to animals and humans, “…they all have the same spirit.”

How can you correlate all these Scriptures - including Eccl.12:7 - and understand them where they all make sense?

(I think @YoursTrue doesn’t believe what she writes will affect you, since you really don’t accept the Bible’s statements. If I’m wrong, YoursTrue, let me know.)

It seems like we aren’t getting anywhere. Which equals wasting time & effort.

We pray to Jehovah about it, and leave our endeavors in His hands.

Goodnight.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

That is just your way of avoiding my questions since you have no answers.

She has answers, believe me.

I’ll answer them later.

(Remember my previous post to you RE: Ecc12:7… ‘Because Jehovah owns it.”)

It’s too late for me to be coherent now, lol!

 

[blü 2]

So why did you post the following:
"Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the soul shall return unto God who gave it."

Where did you get any translation other than that from your own mind that says "the soul shall return unto God who gave it"? Realizing you also said you don't care what the Bible says, I do wonder why you say now that you do not think that God's spirit/breath of life = soul when you deliberately gave your own uneducated translation of Ecc 12:7 as well as saying you don't care what the Bible says anyway.

Without taking sides between you and @Trailblazer, I note that the NRSVue (the latest version of the good ol' RSV) translates Ecclesiastes 12.7 as ─

7 and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the breath returns to God who gave it.​

My point is that the Hebrew of the original, rûaḥ, according to a crib I consulted, can mean ─

wind, breath, mind, spirit
─ breath
─ ─ wind
─ ─ ─ of heaven
─ ─ ─ quarter (of wind), side
─ ─ ─ breath of air
─ ─ ─ air, gas
─ ─ ─ vain, empty thing
─ ─ spirit (as that which breathes quickly in animation or agitation)
─ ─ ─ spirit, animation, vivacity, vigour
─ ─ ─ courage
─ ─ ─ temper, anger
─ ─ ─ impatience, patience
─ ─ ─ spirit, disposition (as troubled, bitter, discontented)
─ ─ ─ disposition (of various kinds), unaccountable or uncontrollable impulse
─ ─ ─ prophetic spirit
─ ─ spirit (of the living, breathing being in man and animals)
─ ─ ─ as gift, preserved by God, God's spirit, departing at death, disembodied being
─ ─ spirit (as seat of emotion)
─ ─ ─ desire
─ ─ ─ sorrow, trouble
─ ─ spirit
─ ─ ─ as seat or organ of mental acts
─ ─ ─ rarely of the will
─ ─ ─ as seat especially of moral character
─ ─ Spirit of God, the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son
─ ─ ─ as inspiring ecstatic state of prophecy
─ ─ ─ as impelling prophet to utter instruction or warning
─ ─ ─ imparting warlike energy and executive and administrative power
─ ─ ─ as endowing men with various gifts
─ ─ ─ as energy of life
─ ─ ─ as manifest in the Shekinah glory
─ ─ ─ (never referred to as a depersonalised force)​

So if you're on the translating team, you may well have difficulty in deciding which best represents the intention of the Hebrew text; and you may have to resort to theology (though theologically the rûaḥ in the Tanakh can never be the "third person of the Trinity" mentioned above, the Trinity being an entirely Christian invention not adopted until the 4th century CE).

In other words, the choice of the right word is not straightforward, and the reader must trust the learning of the translators while at the same time understanding the problems.

 

[walt]

Without taking sides between you and @Trailblazer, I note that the NRSVue (the latest version of the good ol' RSV) translates Ecclesiastes 12.7 as ─

7 and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the breath returns to God who gave it.​

My point is that the Hebrew of the original, rûaḥ, according to a crib I consulted, can mean ─

wind, breath, mind, spirit​

─ breath​

─ ─ wind​

─ ─ ─ of heaven​

─ ─ ─ quarter (of wind), side​

─ ─ ─ breath of air​

─ ─ ─ air, gas​

─ ─ ─ vain, empty thing​

─ ─ spirit (as that which breathes quickly in animation or agitation)​

─ ─ ─ spirit, animation, vivacity, vigour​

─ ─ ─ courage​

─ ─ ─ temper, anger​

─ ─ ─ impatience, patience​

─ ─ ─ spirit, disposition (as troubled, bitter, discontented)​

─ ─ ─ disposition (of various kinds), unaccountable or uncontrollable impulse​

─ ─ ─ prophetic spirit​

─ ─ spirit (of the living, breathing being in man and animals)​

─ ─ ─ as gift, preserved by God, God's spirit, departing at death, disembodied being​

─ ─ spirit (as seat of emotion)​

─ ─ ─ desire​

─ ─ ─ sorrow, trouble​

─ ─ spirit​

─ ─ ─ as seat or organ of mental acts​

─ ─ ─ rarely of the will​

─ ─ ─ as seat especially of moral character​

─ ─ Spirit of God, the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son​

─ ─ ─ as inspiring ecstatic state of prophecy​

─ ─ ─ as impelling prophet to utter instruction or warning​

─ ─ ─ imparting warlike energy and executive and administrative power​

─ ─ ─ as endowing men with various gifts​

─ ─ ─ as energy of life​

─ ─ ─ as manifest in the Shekinah glory​

─ ─ ─ (never referred to as a depersonalised force)​

So if you're on the translating team, you may well have difficulty in deciding which best represents the intention of the Hebrew text; and you may have to resort to theology (though theologically the rûaḥ in the Tanakh can never be the "third person of the Trinity" mentioned above, the Trinity being an entirely Christian invention not adopted until the 4th century CE).

In other words, the choice of the right word is not straightforward, and the reader must trust the learning of the translators while at the same time understanding the problems.

Please, is one of the definitions of this word, "immortal soul" or "spirit body" ?

 

[blü 2]

Please, is one of the definitions of this word, "immortal soul" or "spirit body" ?

Just read the definitions again and make a decision,