By the way -- if you claim to be a Christian...

[walt]

I find the Bible gravely inaccurate and misleading, especially in regards to the afterlife.

The Bible refers to being dead as being asleep or sleeping over and over, 1st Corinthians 15:6, 2nd Peter 3:4, John 11:11, Psalm 13:3, 1 Corinthians 15:20, Acts 26:23, First Thessalonians 4:15, 1 Corinthians 15:51, Acts 7:60, 1 Thessalonians 4:14, Daniel 12:2, Act 13:36, Matthew 27:52, 1 Corinthians 15:18,
1 Peter 1:3, Psalm 76:5, Matthew 9:24, Mark 5:39, and Luke 8:52

Most people believe when we die we automatically go somewhere alive. So why does the Bible consistently use the word asleep or sleeping?

How can anyone possibly have the whole truth, when they don't include all the scriptures in their understanding?

 

[blü 2]

It's not difficult to understand that the ancients had a concept of an immaterial motive (animating) forceunderlying motion and emotion. It's simple subtraction: live person minus nonliving person = soul/spirit. It enters a body before the first breath (first inSPIRation) and leaves when we exSPIRE (die). The same thinking and language can be applied to the beasts, but usually not in these religions, where man is considered special and who alone possesses a soul or spirit.

By extension, god, angels and demons are disembodied spirits, and matters pertaining to such presumed entities are called spiritual.

The rûaḥ (often transliterated as ruach and various other ways) in the Tanakh is, I gather, the 'spirit' of God, not as a distinct entity ─ though after the adoption of the Trinity doctrine the Christian 'Holy Ghost' became such ─ but simply a manifestation of God [him]self

 

[walt]

That's true and there is nothing wrong with talking to God in prayer, it's when people think God is talking back to them that it becomes problematic.

I guess it matters how you expect God to answer you?

The way I look at it, God already answers me with approximately 783,137 words in God's word the Bible. 2 Timothy 3:16-17

James 1:5 So if any one of you is lacking in wisdom, let him keep asking God, for he gives generously to all and without reproaching, and it will be given him.

Philippians 4:13 For all things I have the strength through the one who gives me power.

Luke 22:42 saying: “Father, if you want to, remove this cup from me. Nevertheless, let, not my will, but yours take place.” 43  Then an angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him.

Hebrews 11:6 Moreover, without faith it is impossible to please God well, for whoever approaches God must believe that he is* and that he becomes the rewarder of those earnestly seeking him.

 

[Feedmysheep]

I think that this is a common mistake made by many Christians.

I speak from experience as a former Christian who used to believe everything in the Bible was true.

The Bible said "and money solves everything." (Eccl. 10:19) Now that I don't believe.

Somehow I kept believing other words. And I don't think human beings WOULD invent such a character as Jesus Christ even
if they were capable of doing so.

 

[Feedmysheep]

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The spirit IS the soul.

By the time we get to the New Testament the human spirit and the human soul are definitely not the same thing.
The progessive revelation of salvation and the clarity of the distinction of soul and spirit I think coincide.

Here we see the division of the human soul and the human spirit by the penetrating living word of God.

For the word of God is living and operative and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit and of joints and marrow, and able to discern the thoughts and intentions of the heart. (Heb. 4:12)

And here we see man in three parts with sanctification "wholly" including all three parts of man.

And the God of peace Himself sanctify you wholly, and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Thess. 5:23)

Comment?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

The Bible said "and money solves everything." (Eccl. 10:19) Now that I don't believe.

Somehow I kept believing other words. And I don't think human beings WOULD invent such a character as Jesus Christ even
if they were capable of doing so.

I have a different perspective on Jesus, as I explained in the following post.

Why Don’t You Believe Jesus Rose From The Grave?

No it isn’t, but I’m done going back and forth. K

www.religiousforums.com

 

[Trailblazer]

The Bible refers to being dead as being asleep or sleeping over and over, 1st Corinthians 15:6, 2nd Peter 3:4, John 11:11, Psalm 13:3, 1 Corinthians 15:20, Acts 26:23, First Thessalonians 4:15, 1 Corinthians 15:51, Acts 7:60, 1 Thessalonians 4:14, Daniel 12:2, Act 13:36, Matthew 27:52, 1 Corinthians 15:18,
1 Peter 1:3, Psalm 76:5, Matthew 9:24, Mark 5:39, and Luke 8:52

Most people believe when we die we automatically go somewhere alive. So why does the Bible consistently use the word asleep or sleeping?

How can anyone possibly have the whole truth, when they don't include all the scriptures in their understanding?

Most verses that refer to being dead mean being spiritually dead.
Most verses that refer to being asleep mean being unaware, as one would be in sleep.
So, 'asleep in Christ' or 'dead in Christ' would mean being unaware of Christ, not believing in Him.

There are some exceptions, but most Bible verses that refer to being dead or asleep do not mean being physically dead and buried in a grave or physically sleeping, as one would be sleeping in a bed.

I do not have time to go through all the verses you listed, but if you list the verses I can explain what I believe they mean.

 

[Trailblazer]

By the time we get to the New Testament the human spirit and the human soul are definitely not the same thing.
The progessive revelation of salvation and the clarity of the distinction of soul and spirit I think coincide.

Here we see the division of the human soul and the human spirit by the penetrating living word of God.

For the word of God is living and operative and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit and of joints and marrow, and able to discern the thoughts and intentions of the heart. (Heb. 4:12)

And here we see man in three parts with sanctification "wholly" including all three parts of man.

And the God of peace Himself sanctify you wholly, and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Thess. 5:23)

Comment?

My comment is that the words spirit and soul can mean the same thing or they can have different meanings, depending upon the verse, which needs to be read in the context of the chapter in order to understand what it means.

 

[walt]

Most verses that refer to being dead mean being spiritually dead.

Sure some referred to being spiritually dead, Yes!

But for example when the Apostle Stephen was stoned to dearth, He fell asleep. Acts 7:60
He was not spiritually dead!

I don't understand why you debate points about scriptures, when you don't even believe in the Bible?

 

[Trailblazer]

Sure some referred to being spiritually dead, Yes!

But for example when the Apostle Stephen was stoned to dearth, He fell asleep. Acts 7:60
He was not spiritually dead!

I agree. Some verses mean spiritually dead or spiritually asleep and some verses mean being physically dead or physically asleep

I don't understand why you debate points about scriptures, when you don't even believe in the Bible?

Who said that I don't believe in the Bible? @YoursTrue said that about me but that is not what I said.
I don't have the same faith in the Bible that you have, but that doesn't mean that I don't believe in it.

 

[walt]

Most verses that refer to being dead mean being spiritually dead.
Most verses that refer to being asleep mean being unaware, as one would be in sleep.
So, 'asleep in Christ' or 'dead in Christ' would mean being unaware of Christ, not believing in Him.

There are some exceptions, but most Bible verses that refer to being dead or asleep do not mean being physically dead and buried in a grave or physically sleeping, as one would be sleeping in a bed.

I do not have time to go through all the verses you listed, but if you list the verses I can explain what I believe they mean.

Why do you pick apart everybody's words? Especially when you don't even believe the Holy Bible is true?

Why don't you just show the reasons why you believe something?

And let the other guy just do the same?

Then let the person reading everybody's reasons, decide for themselves?

 

[John53]

I don't understand why you debate points about scriptures, when you don't even believe in the Bible?

Because it's a debate forum. It's not a preach and everyone agrees with you forum.

 

[YoursTrue]

As a former Christian evangelist and street preacher, I understand what you mean. I think that they are misled by their doctrinal beliefs and interpretations of the Bible, which has resulted in the vast schism among them. I find the Bible gravely inaccurate and misleading, especially in regards to the afterlife.

there are those who are former this-and-thats and became members of another religion.

 

[Feedmysheep]

I have a different perspective on Jesus, as I explained in the following post.

Why Don’t You Believe Jesus Rose From The Grave?

No it isn’t, but I’m done going back and forth. K

www.religiousforums.com

Thanks but . . .
Disbunked, Unbunked, Debunked long ago. (Not all points below would I agee with. Good for starters though)

 

[walt]

Because it's a debate forum. It's not a preach and everyone agrees with you forum.

I already know you don't like a friendly debate! Your comments give you away!

 

[John53]

I already know you don't like to debate! Your comments give you away!

As does your personal attacks.

 

[walt]

As does your personal attacks.

Watch this conversation will not be useful Just like the others. Sorry I'm not trying to attack you just a repetitive observation.

I just like conversations that bring people together, and are useful somehow, not just endless debating for the sake of debating.

 

[Trailblazer]

Why do you pick apart everybody's words?

Please show me where I did that.

Especially when you don't even believe the Holy Bible is true?

Please show me where I said that I don't believe the Holy Bible is true.

Why don't you just show the reasons why you believe something?

And let the other guy just do the same?

Then let the person reading everybody's reasons, decide for themselves?

That is what I do.
I say what I believe and if asked why I say I believe it because that's what the Baha'i Writings say.
I never stopped the other guy from doing the same.
I never stopped the person reading everybody's reasons from deciding for themselves.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Thanks but . . .
Disbunked, Unbunked, Debunked long ago. (Not all points below would I agee with. Good for starters though)

I watched the video, but I don't buy what the author of the video or his guest are trying to sell.

Thanks for sharing your perspective on this topic, but it is, after all, your opinion. We will just have to agree to disagree.

 

[YoursTrue]

I diligently sought God for forty years through daily prayer, worship, Bible studies, evangelism, and various ministries, only to end up disillusioned and heartbroken. I never felt inner peace until after I renounced my belief in God and disavowed my Christian faith. It took some time for me to finally feel it. Prior to this, I had never experienced personal tranquility or freedom from emotional bondage, despite years of sincere prayer, daily reading and studying the Bible, genuine dedication to serving God in church ministries, as well as being a devoted street preacher and evangelism team leader. I merely went through the motions and played church in the dire hope that I would start to feel something—anything that indicated to me that God is real and that he cares about me. I was desperate to know the truth. I appeared to be a joyous Christian, but I was deeply bereft of hope and inner peace. I was constantly hurting and suffering emotionally, and no one else knew about my misery and struggle other than my husband. I'm not exaggerating when I say that being a Christian was an absolute nightmare for me. I'm truly relieved to be free of Christianity, and I have no desire whatsoever to ever return to it. I'm free now.

As I found out, it takes a lot of courage.

I know many other former Christians who had the same or similar experience to mine. I'd like to conclude by saying that I'm not only relieved to be free from Christianity, but I'm also very proud that I've been able to support other people break free from the bondage of their Christian indoctrination.

I have a different experience. Raised not as a Christian, I was taught that Judaism is the best religion. When I got older, I used to curse out street preachers and slam the door in Jehovah's Witnesses' faces. Things have changed. You just never know which way the ball turns...