• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

By the way -- if you claim to be a Christian...

YoursTrue

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Sgt. Pepper said:
The post you responded to mentioned the Bible forbidding people speaking to the dead, which reminded me of what I posted earlier in this thread.

I'd like to re-post what I wrote because I think the content of this post has become relevant again.

If the dead know nothing (Ecclesiastes 9:5), then why is it forbidden in the Bible to consult the dead (Deuteronomy 18:10–12)?

According to the Bible, Jesus mentioned the appearance of a ghost because his disciples thought he was a ghost (Luke 24:37–39). Why would he have mentioned the appearance of a human ghost when the dead are forgotten (Ecclesiastes 9:5) or if he and his disciples didn't believe that they existed and were actually demons in disguise? And in an account of his alleged resurrection, Matthew 27:51–53 states, "At that moment, the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split, and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection, went into the holy city, and appeared to many people." This sounds paranormal to me.

Furthermore, 1 Samuel 28:7–20 mentions the ghost of Samuel communicating with King Saul and warning him that God would deliver both him and Israel into the hands of the Philistines because of his disobedience. There is no mention in these verses that the spirit he spoke to was anything else but the spirit of Samuel. However, according to Ecclesiastes 9:5, the dead know nothing. Wouldn't it have been more of an accurate account of this alleged interaction if it were specified that the spirit King Saul spoke to was a demon in disguise? Well, I can read these verses and see that there is no mention that the spirit he spoke to was a demon. What an ironic story it is to find in the Bible about King Saul using a psychic medium to communicate directly with the spirit of the prophet Samuel, especially given its claim that the dead know nothing and their names are forgotten. Again, why is it forbidden to consult the dead?

If the dead know nothing, then how would they know if they are either in heaven or hell? For example, in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19–31), the rich man knew that he was in torment in Hades ("because I am in agony in this fire"). It is a parable of a dead rich man who was obviously conscious that he was being tormented in Hades, was able to recognize Lazarus and Abraham from afar, and also pleaded with Abraham to help him.

Furthermore, Ecclesiastes 9:5 states that there is no final reward for the dead and that even their names are forgotten. However, it conflicts with other scriptures that suggest there are final rewards given in heaven (such as these verses here) and that people's names have been written in a "Book of Life" that God is said to have on hand (see the verses here), as well as their names being recorded in heaven (Luke 10:20). It seems like a conflicting message.

After extensive reading, study, and examination of the Bible, I've found that Ecclesiastes 3:21 specifies that human spirits and the spirit of the animal rise upward from the earth. Revelation 20:13 states that spirits rise up from the sea and Hades. Also, Hebrews 9:27 states that people are destined to die once and, after that, face judgment, and 2 Corinthians 5:8 suggests that believers are in the presence of Jesus after death. According to 1 Thessalonians 4:13–17 and Revelation 20:11–15, both believers and unbelievers' spirits are sleeping in their graves and awaiting God's judgment in the end times. Furthermore, there are other scriptures that describe "soul sleep" (Daniel 12:2, 2 Chronicles 32:33, 2 Chronicles 33:20, 1 Kings 15:8, 1 Kings 16:28, 2 Kings 13:13, 2 Kings 14:29, John 11:11–15) as well. Given these conflicting verses, it's not surprising to me that Christians disagree about what happens to people after death.
Click to expand...
People had a habit evidently of consulting dead ones. And God said that was not permissable according to Him. Now realizing you don't believe it, nevertheless I find your views fantastic to the degree of sci-fi and the "world beyond." Be that as it may, I am glad glad glad that God forbid HIS people from consulting with the dead.
 
John53

John53

I go leaps and bounds
Premium Member
walt said:
Watch this conversation will not be useful Just like the others. Sorry I'm not trying to attack you just a repetitive observation.

I just like conversations that bring people together, and are useful somehow, not just endless debating for the sake of debating.
Click to expand...

It's a debate forum!!!!!!!!!!!!! The point is to debate. If you don't want to debate go to a non debate sub forum. I have offered twice to show you how to join them but you didn't respond.
 
YoursTrue

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Sgt. Pepper said:
You beat me to it.

I don't see why someone would complain about debating the Bible while constantly posting in a forum designated for debating the Bible.
Click to expand...
That you got no consolation or answers in whatever version of Christendom you were affiliated with is not surprising to me. As the saying goes, different strokes for different folks anyway.
 
YoursTrue

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
YoursTrue said:
That you got no consolation or answers in whatever version of Christendom you were affiliated with is not surprising to me. As the saying goes, different strokes for different folks anyway.
Click to expand...
@Sgt. Pepper As an addendum, I did not pray for YEARS to know God. I would pray maybe for other things, but finally gave up. Because I finally figured it was all a bunch of hoopla like Christmas decorations. Or yoga positions...Shiva, etc., feeding rats at a temple, whatever. Finally I did pray even though I did not know if God exisited. It was actually someone who motivated me and I did not join his religious persuasion. Yet I believe God used him to get me to "see." Because God answered me...
 
walt

walt

Jesus is King & Mighty God Isa.9:6-7; Lk.1:32-33
John53 said:
It's a debate forum!!!!!!!!!!!!! The point is to debate. If you don't want to debate go to a non debate sub forum. I have offered twice to show you how to join them but you didn't respond.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't mind talking to you about a Bible subject, but aren't you an atheist anyway?

If you know a positive way that we can engage in a conversation, without picking apart each other's words, I wouldn't mind giving it a try. :)
But if it ends up with just a bunch of arguing over words, don't be surprised if I just stop talking, I don't want to keep engaging in a conversation that is going no place.
 
YoursTrue

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Sgt. Pepper said:
You beat me to it.

I don't see why someone would complain about debating the Bible while continually posting in a forum designated for doing so.
Click to expand...
Who's complaining? Either there is a reason like you had to deny Christ and God because God did not answer your prayers -- and/or the Trinity, and/or whether hell is hot, or there is not a God. I certainly had reasons to not believe in God for many years. But He allowed me to find Him. Almost like the Ann Murray song -- "In the Garden." Obviously I can't speak for everyone, but that's how it is with me.
 
YoursTrue

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
walt said:
I wouldn't mind talking to you about a Bible subject, but aren't you an atheist anyway?

If you know a positive way that we can engage in a conversation, without picking apart each other's words, I wouldn't mind giving it a try. :)
But if it ends up with just a bunch of arguing over words, don't be surprised if I just stop talking, I don't want to keep engaging in a conversation that is going no place.
Click to expand...
It's kinda hard to talk to someone about a subject he doesn't care about. It's like a debate where someone says about the other, I don't care what you think...as if that's the end of reasoning on the matter. Yikes.
 
John53

John53

I go leaps and bounds
Premium Member
walt said:
I wouldn't mind talking to you about a Bible subject, but aren't you an atheist anyway?

If you know a positive way that we can engage in a conversation, without picking apart each other's words, I wouldn't mind giving it a try. :)
But if it ends up with just a bunch of arguing over words, don't be surprised if I just stop talking, I don't want to keep engaging in a conversation that is going no place.
Click to expand...

All I can say Walt is go to a non debate sub-forum if you don't want to debate. Complaining about debate in a debate sub-forum is like complaining that ice cream is cold.

I really have no idea what word I've argued about or when I've argued about it. If you can point out an example of me doing this then hopefully I can learn and avoid doing it in the future.
 
walt

walt

Jesus is King & Mighty God Isa.9:6-7; Lk.1:32-33
John53 said:
All I can say Walt is go to a non debate sub-forum if you don't want to debate. Complaining about debate in a debate sub-forum is like complaining that ice cream is cold.

I really have no idea what word I've argued about or when I've argued about it. If you can point out an example of me doing this then hopefully I can learn and avoid doing it in the future.
Click to expand...
I just want to have friendly debates with a goal in mind......... Gaining a little more information about a subject. :)
 
John53

John53

I go leaps and bounds
Premium Member
walt said:
I just want to have friendly debates with a goal in mind......... Gaining a little more information about a subject. :)
Click to expand...

That's fine but if you're going to accuse people of something you could at least provide an example so we know what we're doing wrong. I still have no idea what word or words I've argued about.
 
walt

walt

Jesus is King & Mighty God Isa.9:6-7; Lk.1:32-33
John53 said:
That's fine but if you're going to accuse people of something you could at least provide an example so we know what we're doing wrong. I still have no idea what word or words I've argued about.
Click to expand...
Please I am done with this conversation, could we please talk about something else?
 
YoursTrue

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
What's to debate about if a person says he doesn't care what the Bible says or is an agnostic or atheist but then wants to quote from the Bible and make up scripture as well.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top