Can a human be more compassionate and merciful than God (in your opinion)

[bobhikes]

A warning that causes varying degrees of distress. In other words, suffering.
Why would you want this for anyone and everyone ?

Distress is a choice as well, we all create our own stress. I never said I wanted suffering for anyone, I said it was a choice.

If I were God I would want people to be able to make there own choices and that includes all the negative ones. If I were to stop them from making negative choices, in my opinion there choices would have no value. I am not God and this is my opinion, why do you care?

 

[whirlingmerc]

Distress is a choice as well, we all create our own stress. I never said I wanted suffering for anyone, I said it was a choice.

If I were God I would want people to be able to make there own choices and that includes all the negative ones. If I were to stop them from making negative choices, in my opinion there choices would have no value. I am not God and this is my opinion, why do you care?

Spoken word appears to agree

Bit I would say even our choices are handicapped by a fallen nature and our highest inclination with a fallen nature may be to reject God

 

[Shad]

I think you overlooked an obvious option. Why not create the world and the people in it without flaws and wickedness to begin with? If you are all-powerful and know what you want, why would you create something to be flawed in ways you don't like to begin with? That's never made sense to me.

There is such a world, it is called Heaven. Which Christians always forget about when talking about evil and free will.

 

[Koldo]

Distress is a choice as well, we all create our own stress. I never said I wanted suffering for anyone, I said it was a choice.

If I were God I would want people to be able to make there own choices and that includes all the negative ones. If I were to stop them from making negative choices, in my opinion there choices would have no value.

Anytime you feel a considerable amount of pain you also feel a certain degree of distress.
If you are not feeling any degree of distress, you are not feeling pain.
And since it is possible to feel pain without choosing to do so, then distress is not necessarily a consequence of your choices.

Why would you want something that you recognize as negative to be experienced by those that didn't choose to experience it?

I am not God and this is my opinion, why do you care?

Thoughts are hardly ever self-contained.

 

[whirlingmerc]

If a person has leprosy and can't feel pain they have serious problems
But someday God will wipe every tear from the eyes of the redeemed

 

[Koldo]

If a person has leprosy and can't feel pain they have serious problems
But someday God will wipe every tear from the eyes of the redeemed

If a person has leprosy...they have serious problems

 

[bobhikes]

Anytime you feel a considerable amount of pain you also feel a certain degree of distress.
If you are not feeling any degree of distress, you are not feeling pain.
And since it is possible to feel pain without choosing to do so, then distress is not necessarily a consequence of your choices.

Why would you want something that you recognize as negative to be experienced by those that didn't choose to experience it?



Thoughts are hardly ever self-contained.

Pain does not have to lead to distress if one recognizes it as a warning.

I tore my knee tendons caused by a stupid mistake, when I was 17 extremely painful. I did not have them repaired by choice based on the doctors advise. To this day when I over exert myself I get pain. If I push through my knee will give out. As I age it takes less to over exert myself. It is not suffering in my mind and does not give me any distress in my life. I get migraine headaches to the point where I eventually pass out. I do not consider it suffering or does it give me distress. There is much more pain in my life. I chose to focus on moving on with life getting through the distractions. I don't believe I have ever suffered or ever will. I have had distress but I have worked through it with help. Less and less as I age do I feel distressed. I learned through my life and help my distress is caused by my view but it is not always easy to change.

 

[interminable]

So those that fail the test are labeled bad people, while those who pass are still selfish people obsessed with getting their reward, while writing off the people who didn't make the cut (no empathy).

What is the point of torture again? If a dog bites a child it is usually put down, we don't have officially appointed people torture the animal before putting it down for doing something it shouldn't have. That would be cruel and pointless, yes? So why does your god feel the need to torture people?

The person what his philosophy is based on freedom about everything can say what u said.
But those who are realistic just consider the reality not something else.

We don't decide for god what to do or not. He decides.

Besides u always think about hell why don't u think about heaven , eternal and endless happiness and joy.

And god prepared lots of evidences of his existence including reason and miracle and all other masterpiece in the universe. I just overlooked mysticism.


My final question is
Is it good to give knowledge to someone that is completely stupid and can't appreciate it????

The same is about unbelievers


We don't have something more precious than god since he is creator of every beauty and perfection.

And unbelievers don't appreciate this opportunity to reach him.

Considering that they overlooked all evidences and denial of them
God will punish them to pure them and finally sending to heaven.

Eternal punishment isn't for everyone.

 

[interminable]

I'll never grovel and say I didn't do anything wrong. I'll tell all the "hosts of heaven" exactly why I didn't believe, if they want to hear it... and admit to any "sin" they have me on record for. "Do what you have to do." Is all they'll get from me. Screw 'em.

If u would be allowed to talk to them.

 

[Koldo]

Pain does not have to lead to distress if one recognizes it as a warning.

I tore my knee tendons caused by a stupid mistake, when I was 17 extremely painful. I did not have them repaired by choice based on the doctors advise. To this day when I over exert myself I get pain. If I push through my knee will give out. As I age it takes less to over exert myself. It is not suffering in my mind and does not give me any distress in my life. I get migraine headaches to the point where I eventually pass out. I do not consider it suffering or does it give me distress. There is much more pain in my life. I chose to focus on moving on with life getting through the distractions. I don't believe I have ever suffered or ever will. I have had distress but I have worked through it with help. Less and less as I age do I feel distressed. I learned through my life and help my distress is caused by my view but it is not always easy to change.

What you seem to be talking about when you say 'suffering' or 'distress' is the all-pervading feeling of sadness and helplessness that can be triggered after one experiences pain and that, at the same time, can be repelled by sheer will.
When I use those words though I don't restrict myself to that. To clarify, I would say that you aren't suffering because of your knee, except when you experience pain because of it.

Let's put that aside for a moment. Let's get to the crux of the issue: Why would you want people to experience migraines when they themselves don't want to ?

 

[bobhikes]

What you seem to be talking about when you say 'suffering' or 'distress' is the all-pervading feeling of sadness and helplessness that can be triggered after one experiences pain and that, at the same time, can be repelled by sheer will.
When I use those words though I don't restrict myself to that. To clarify, I would say that you aren't suffering because of your knee, except when you experience pain because of it.

Let's put that aside for a moment. Let's get to the crux of the issue: Why would you want people to experience migraines when they themselves don't want to ?

Do you understand choice. If you have no problems you have no choice. I there is another life and to get there you have to prove yourself worthy in this one, you are going to have hardships and how you respond to them will be how you are judged. You may think this is cruel but how else can you determine if someone is worthy. In Gods world this life is just a proving ground to get to the next.

 

[Koldo]

Do you understand choice. If you have no problems you have no choice

Why not ? You seem to have a rather unique understanding of 'choice'.

I there is another life and to get there you have to prove yourself worthy in this one, you are going to have hardships and how you respond to them will be how you are judged. You may think this is cruel but how else can you determine if someone is worthy. In Gods world this life is just a proving ground to get to the next.

Why would you be a God like that ? Why would you create a proving ground ? Why would you seek to find someone 'worthy' ?

 

[bobhikes]

Why not ? You seem to have a rather unique understanding of 'choice'.



Why would you be a God like that ? Why would you create a proving ground ? Why would you seek to find someone 'worthy' ?

Because that is who I am. I do not give out participation trophies.

 

[Aštra’el]

However, let's propose that God/gods exist, but are not compassionate. If you, as a human being, do hold compassion for your race as an admirable quality, then why would you throw your lot in with ANY god who didn't "live up" to your own standards of the virtue?

The most admirable qualities I see in YHVH involve ultimate powers of Creation and ultimate powers of Destruction, and ultimate Order over ultimate Chaos. To me, "compassion" is completely irrelevant.

If one were to instead bring up Jesus, then yes, I might explain how I admire his prominent qualities of compassion, unconditional love, humility, kindness, peace, benevolence, redemption, deliverance, salvation, etc...

If one asked why I revere Tiamat, or Ishtar, or some other deity, I may have different reasons for each of them; "compassion" is completely irrelevant unless it is among the more prominent attributes of some specific deity's archetype.

 

[Koldo]

Because that is who I am. I do not give out participation trophies.

Thanks for showing me your true colors.
I guess there is nothing else to say at this point.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

If u would be allowed to talk to them.

I kind of knew you'd think of this... as if I had the standing to even be in their presence. As if I could mean anything to God enough to even be given a chance to speak. As if God could be bothered to hear me out in any way shape or form. All of the heavenly hosts have so much better things to do. As if I care. I'd rather not interact with any of those pompous fools, if I am being honest. Leave them to their "perfect" places and "pure" thoughts and actions. What a farce.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

The most admirable qualities I see in YHVH involve ultimate powers of Creation and ultimate powers of Destruction, and ultimate Order over ultimate Chaos. To me, "compassion" is completely irrelevant.

If one were to instead bring up Jesus, then yes, I might explain how I admire his prominent qualities of compassion, unconditional love, humility, kindness, peace, benevolence, redemption, deliverance, salvation, etc...

If one asked why I revere Tiamat, or Ishtar, or some other deity, I may have different reasons for each of them; "compassion" is completely irrelevant unless it is among the more prominent attributes of some specific deity's archetype.

In the end, I don't believe any being as powerful as any god is claimed to be would have all that much use for compassion for the human race. I was merely trying to stay (more or less) on topic and speak for compassion as an admirable quality in and of itself.

My true belief is that a human being does, indeed, have infinitely more capacity to be compassionate than any deity can/will ever have. And this being because "deities" such as those we humans dwell on (create, idolize, worship, etc.) very likely do not exist.

 

[interminable]

Sounds like a verse written by a man who wants to control people.

I said there was beauty in those you mentioned who are content with poverty and suffering in this life for riches in the next...there is no beauty in that verse you quoted. That is his ugly bigotry.

The author of the Koran fantasized about torturing unbelievers in this life and the next. How do you know Muhammad wasn't being deceived by an evil spirit?

Evil spirit doesn't say fast and say prayers and don't sleep around with everybody and don't drink wine....

Your statement is like infidels' statements
They used to say our prophet is insane or poet or a magician and ....

But they couldn't defeat his claim that has invited human being to bring just 3 verses like the holy quran.

Pretexts never end. U can say right now that maybe u r in a dream of a person in another world but how much this possibility is rational???

 

[Koldo]

But they couldn't defeat his claim that has invited human being to bring just 3 verses like the holy quran.

I have yet to see someone explain what exactly is meant by that.
By what criteria would you judge if the challenge has been met ?

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Pain is a warning and not suffering, you can have pain and deal with it. Death is a release not a penalty. You can have Tsunami's and deal and live with them. People adapt to all types of things all over the world and thrive. People who suffer have chosen to suffer. What you consider suffering some people may consider Joy.

Did you note that in many of my examples I didn't dwell on physical pain? Noting the impending loss of loved ones and understanding that you may be lost to them as "suffering" as well. And when one contracts a virus they didn't even know was inbound... what, in your estimation, is the "choice" they made to suffer at the hands of that virus? Can you answer for that one? I don't think you can.

Should we stop looking for a cure or prevention method for cancer? All those little tykes with leukemia... they probably should have made better CHOICES... right?

I see where you're coming from with your own point - but it isn't universally applicable. It's asinine to try and paint everything with such a broad stroke. Create too big a canvas, and people will be able to shoot holes through it without even aiming.