Can a rich Church or man get into heaven?

[Greatest I am]

Eat the rich.

Christianity will be lucky if even a small percentage of our clergy make it (into heaven).

You count yourself as Christian.
Vatican II must have upset you. Was that Pope an anti Pope?

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Aim small miss small.

Chastisement without correction is just plain mean and shows an empty mind.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Only a tiny percentage of Christian clergy are what could be honestly called wealthy

Hmm.

http://www.chick.com/reading/books/153/153_10.asp

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=54617

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2007/07/16/660-million-settlement-in-catholic-priest-abuse-case/

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2357980.ece
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,833509,00.html
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22334911-26040,00.html

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

I don't think Smoke believes that necessarily... I think he's just making a relevant comment.

I think that he did not use the politically correct words but he is in essence correct.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

How is the statement "Every rich man is a thief or the son of a thief" relevant if it's not true? I think the statement says more about the person who said than it does about "the rich". Facts, not feelings, are what interests me. Most of this "get the rich" stuff is based on pure emotionalism rather facts.

Emotion does not exist without facts to produce it. It is the accumulated facts that prompt the emotion.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

To really 'judge' the value of wealth in the church one would have to see the entire balance sheet. There is a scenario that indicates store up some quantity of wealth to allow sustainability in providing help to others. Look how many millions the Catholic church helps routinely in Italy with dividends (one of those articles gave numbers). If money is given for help as it comes in only, there certainly will be dry periods - or is this a naive, all-wet view?

The Vatican also tries to dodge it's tax responsibility in Italy.
It can also pay a 650 million law suit for pedophilia without batting an eye, not to mention the settlements that we do not hear about.

Now that is sustainability. Even more if you work in their average income on investments of about 30 million per year. There is likely more that we do not know of.
Not to center on R C. All rich churches do not walk their talk

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

if you invest the money and use the interest money to help the poor quote]

Big if.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Wow, smart AND self-congratulatory. Will wonders ever cease?

Typical Christian. No refutable argument = insults.
If insult returned then insult more to deflect from the fact that there is no way to refute. I would feel sorry for you if the word pathetic did not spring to mind.

Regards
DL

 

[Smoke]

I had an uncle who is now deceased who started a manufacturing company with his brother. They became quite wealthy from that business. They hired employees, paid them wages, and people bought from the business a legally manufactured product. Exactly where in that did stealing occur?

I think he was saying that the accumulation of wealth generally involves some sort of exploitation that is analogous to theft.

It makes sense that a priest would say this - seeing as he's merely projecting his own experience of how wealth is obtained.

This particular priest has never drawn a salary from the church, and earned his living as a public school teacher.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

This particular priest has never drawn a salary from the church, and earned his living as a public school teacher.

Then my statement has no merit in this case.

 

[Dunemeister]

Typical Christian. No refutable argument = insults.
If insult returned then insult more to deflect from the fact that there is no way to refute. I would feel sorry for you if the word pathetic did not spring to mind.

Regards
DL

It's not the power but the banality and rank foolishness of your argument that motivates me not to respond. Your argument is easily refutable but it's just not worth the effort. It's kind of like trying to dispute a four-year-old's contention that the quarter he found under his pillow came from the tooth fairy. The four-year-old's intellectual maturity is not sufficient to contend with the argument. A similar dynamic is going on in your case. I'll wait for you to mature before discussing religion with you.

 

[Reverend Rick]

How can wealth be morally attained without exploitation of labor or markets?

Regards
DL

Spoken like a true socialist.

I guess the concept of added value escapes many. Using your logic, a painter should only charge for canvas and paint. If this painter sells a painting for 5,000 dollars and worked 5 hours on the project, then all house painters should be paid the same as well right?

Tell me how a talented painter ever exploited anyone?

 

[Valjean]

Am I missing something here? I don't see any "unless's" or "excepts" in the OP quotations. It seems to me the Bible is pretty clear on this point. Riches are a barrier to salvation. Christians are enjoined to give away their wealth and lay up their riches in heaven, not on Earth. Christians should be in, but not of, the world. They're not supposed to be leading ordinary lives. They're supposed to be focused on heaven and indifferent to earthly success. They're supposed to be perfectionists, "even as God" is perfect."

How is it that some devout Christians take certain Bible passages so literally, while so flagrantly rationalizing others when they contravene their own lifestyles?

Wealthy = detested of God. Riches prevent salvation. "God wrote it -- and there's an end on it!"

 

[Jordan St. Francis]

"All things are possible with God".

 

[keithnurse]

Hmm.

http://www.chick.com/reading/books/153/153_10.asp

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=54617

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2007/07/16/660-million-settlement-in-catholic-priest-abuse-case/

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2357980.ece
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,833509,00.html
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22334911-26040,00.html

Regards
DL

None of the links you listed addressed what I actually said. I said "only a tiny percentage of Christian CLERGY are what could be honestly called rich". The links you listed only talk about the wealth of the vatican, not the average personal wealth of Christian clergy.

 

[logician]

Am I missing something here? I don't see any "unless's" or "excepts" in the OP quotations. It seems to me the Bible is pretty clear on this point. Riches are a barrier to salvation. Christians are enjoined to give away their wealth and lay up their riches in heaven, not on Earth. Christians should be in, but not of, the world. They're not supposed to be leading ordinary lives. They're supposed to be focused on heaven and indifferent to earthly success. They're supposed to be perfectionists, "even as God" is perfect."

How is it that some devout Christians take certain Bible passages so literally, while so flagrantly rationalizing others when they contravene their own lifestyles?

Wealthy = detested of God. Riches prevent salvation. "God wrote it -- and there's an end on it!"

Good post.

 

[Perfect Circle]

Am I missing something here? I don't see any "unless's" or "excepts" in the OP quotations. It seems to me the Bible is pretty clear on this point. Riches are a barrier to salvation. Christians are enjoined to give away their wealth and lay up their riches in heaven, not on Earth. Christians should be in, but not of, the world. They're not supposed to be leading ordinary lives. They're supposed to be focused on heaven and indifferent to earthly success. They're supposed to be perfectionists, "even as God" is perfect."

How is it that some devout Christians take certain Bible passages so literally, while so flagrantly rationalizing others when they contravene their own lifestyles?

Wealthy = detested of God. Riches prevent salvation. "God wrote it -- and there's an end on it!"

:clap

 

[Smoke]

How is it that some devout Christians take certain Bible passages so literally, while so flagrantly rationalizing others when they contravene their own lifestyles?

As my granny said of my great-grandfather, who was a preacher: "Daddy believed what he believed, but he was gonna get what he wanted."

 

[Greatest I am]

Spoken like a true socialist.

I guess the concept of added value escapes many. Using your logic, a painter should only charge for canvas and paint. If this painter sells a painting for 5,000 dollars and worked 5 hours on the project, then all house painters should be paid the same as well right?

Tell me how a talented painter ever exploited anyone?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/29/arts/design/29gall.html

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Am I missing something here? I don't see any "unless's" or "excepts" in the OP quotations. It seems to me the Bible is pretty clear on this point. Riches are a barrier to salvation. Christians are enjoined to give away their wealth and lay up their riches in heaven, not on Earth. Christians should be in, but not of, the world. They're not supposed to be leading ordinary lives. They're supposed to be focused on heaven and indifferent to earthly success. They're supposed to be perfectionists, "even as God" is perfect."

How is it that some devout Christians take certain Bible passages so literally, while so flagrantly rationalizing others when they contravene their own lifestyles?

Wealthy = detested of God. Riches prevent salvation. "God wrote it -- and there's an end on it!"

It takes the patience of a saint to wait for Christians to act like Christians.

I gave up some time ago.

Regards
DL